Where Gods come from; or, The advantages of ejecting religion from one's praxis

[Beyond Everything]

One cognitive feature of humans has been called Hyperactive Agency Detection. This is the automatic attribution of intention to phenomena. Studies have demonstrated that this begins in early childhood.

Mankind is approx 300,000 years old (and that is not even considering pre-humans). Innate psychic/magick abilities helped the species survive and eventually thrive. One should keep in mind this length of pre-history.

In attributing natural occurrences to supernatural entities, the ground was set to create supernatural entities - egregores.

Egregores have many peculiarities, one of which is a that in their creation, there was a kind of funhouse, distorted reflection of the complex of human cognitive quirks and instincts. In terms of our material reality, egregores can sway events and bring results desired.

What egregores can also do is induce in the human under their influence experiences labeled as divine. The picture is further complicated because the human brain also naturally can induce what are labeled as mystical experiences (a tab of LSD demonstrates this aptly).

Egregores are a limiting factor towards the individuals attainment of ascension/immortality.

Many people utilize egregores in their personal workings and practices, oblivious to the fact that they are essentially being misled and led away from the real path, which is highly individual. We can examine people utilizing, for instance, Christian energies in their works, all the while pretending the 2000 years of Christian oppression of esoteric practices has no relation whatsoever to what theyre doing. In connecting to god, or gods, or spirits, or Buddhas, what is at work is simply the engagement of an egregore -some long-standing-.

These egregores inhibit both the interaction with actual higher dimensions, as well as the transformational process that leads to personal immortality as a power unto one's self.

 

[Savodonger]

This reminds me of a post I did within another forum I am part of. The contents however didn’t go down to well as the majority seem to think that all spirits are part of some energetical field of existence. I know with sheer experience that many spirits come through us because of our desire to conquer the material world here on earth. This is man’s nature and always will be. This spiritual essence of man is what causes him to WANT, it causes him to LOVE and it causes him to CONTROL. This is also what causes a great deal of death, war and destruction over time as man loves to take over and rule. Many of these spirits are therefore born out of these situations and occurrences. However, this is not where it ends as I do believe in spirits from the outer realms who are not part of us.

Going back however to mans spiritual creations, this happened quite naturally in Haiti with the slave trade. The first spirits of Vodou were the Rada, who were all about love and peace so they could not help the natives with their rituals to stop the French kidnapping them. The slaves however were fed up of this mistreatment they suffered in Haiti so they created new rituals and practices to match their anger and through this, the Petro spirits were born. It was these spirits which defeated the French in Haiti.

Over time the Petro have become extremely violent as they have always been used to kill, end problems and place curses. These types of spirits were created because of the circumstances the slaves went through. The hyped up rituals performed will produce intense emotional energy, which is then directed through the intentions made towards a target. So as you can see, spirits of the Vodou religion were created through man.

 

[Horologer]

One cognitive feature of humans has been called Hyperactive Agency Detection. This is the automatic attribution of intention to phenomena. Studies have demonstrated that this begins in early childhood.

Mankind is approx 300,000 years old (and that is not even considering pre-humans). Innate psychic/magick abilities helped the species survive and eventually thrive. One should keep in mind this length of pre-history.

In attributing natural occurrences to supernatural entities, the ground was set to create supernatural entities - egregores.

Egregores have many peculiarities, one of which is a that in their creation, there was a kind of funhouse, distorted reflection of the complex of human cognitive quirks and instincts. In terms of our material reality, egregores can sway events and bring results desired.

What egregores can also do is induce in the human under their influence experiences labeled as divine. The picture is further complicated because the human brain also naturally can induce what are labeled as mystical experiences (a tab of LSD demonstrates this aptly).

Egregores are a limiting factor towards the individuals attainment of ascension/immortality.

Many people utilize egregores in their personal workings and practices, oblivious to the fact that they are essentially being misled and led away from the real path, which is highly individual. We can examine people utilizing, for instance, Christian energies in their works, all the while pretending the 2000 years of Christian oppression of esoteric practices has no relation whatsoever to what theyre doing. In connecting to god, or gods, or spirits, or Buddhas, what is at work is simply the engagement of an egregore -some long-standing-.

These egregores inhibit both the interaction with actual higher dimensions, as well as the transformational process that leads to personal immortality as a power unto one's self.

I read it carefully, but I still don’t understand — what was the question?

 

[Beyond Everything]

I read it carefully, but I still don’t understand — what was the question?

It is for deep contemplation. Not every detail is filled in. If you can really grasp what is said and apply it, the possibilities of real power are available.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:41 PM

This reminds me of a post I did within another forum I am part of. The contents however didn’t go down to well as the majority seem to think that all spirits are part of some energetical field of existence. I know with sheer experience that many spirits come through us because of our desire to conquer the material world here on earth. This is man’s nature and always will be. This spiritual essence of man is what causes him to WANT, it causes him to LOVE and it causes him to CONTROL. This is also what causes a great deal of death, war and destruction over time as man loves to take over and rule. Many of these spirits are therefore born out of these situations and occurrences. However, this is not where it ends as I do believe in spirits from the outer realms who are not part of us.

Going back however to mans spiritual creations, this happened quite naturally in Haiti with the slave trade. The first spirits of Vodou were the Rada, who were all about love and peace so they could not help the natives with their rituals to stop the French kidnapping them. The slaves however were fed up of this mistreatment they suffered in Haiti so they created new rituals and practices to match their anger and through this, the Petro spirits were born. It was these spirits which defeated the French in Haiti.

Over time the Petro have become extremely violent as they have always been used to kill, end problems and place curses. These types of spirits were created because of the circumstances the slaves went through. The hyped up rituals performed will produce intense emotional energy, which is then directed through the intentions made towards a target. So as you can see, spirits of the Vodou religion were created through man.

Well, they are part of an 'energetical field of existence'. Afterall, everything is energy, and they 'feed' off of the energy poured into them through worship and other activities. I do agree that not every unincarnated entity is an egregore, but the 'real thing' is rarer than people suppose. Liberated humans are of course not egregores, for example, but they tend to not help in this beknighted realm anyway, contrary to what some hope.

I think the Petro spirits are older, but again- still egregores that fit the moment.

 

[Savodonger]

It is very true what you suggested about many spirits being egregore in nature my friend, you’re the only one who has ever said this apart from myself although as mentioned, it went down like a lead balloon on the other site just because I said many spirits originated from man. I have to be careful what I say at times as some magicians do appear to have a deluded world view

 

[Robert Ramsay]

It is very true what you suggested about many spirits being egregore in nature my friend, you’re the only one who has ever said this apart from myself although as mentioned, it went down like a lead balloon on the other site just because I said many spirits originated from man. I have to be careful what I say at times as some magicians do appear to have a deluded world view

I also think this, but have not said it for precisely the same reasons. Although I do think deluded is the wrong word. The experience is the same, whatever the source.

 

[Beyond Everything]

It is very true what you suggested about many spirits being egregore in nature my friend, you’re the only one who has ever said this apart from myself although as mentioned, it went down like a lead balloon on the other site just because I said many spirits originated from man. I have to be careful what I say at times as some magicians do appear to have a deluded world view

You can put some of that down to egregoric influence, but it's also the biological limiting factor that demands a metaphysics that corresponds to the particular quirks that were engendered by biological evolution. It's somewhat insidious because you have a feedback loop between the two (biology and egregores) and one can't normally break out and 'touch' much purer sources. And this isn't even mentioning social factors in the reinforcement of dogmas.

 

[silencewaits]

I think the word egregore is over-used. Gods can be archetypes, they can be abstractions of trans-personal forces, but rarely are they egregores. Egregores do not exist independent of the group or collective which spawned them. You can interact with "God the Father" as a symbol without interacting with the "egregore" of your local church. 'Egregoric influence' is herd-mentality, or the tendency of people to be affected by 'group-mind'--collectives of memes which these groups share, and which cause them to act and behave similarly. An egregore is psychic swarm intelligence, something of a hivemind. We have an influence on other people, and they us, just as we are affected by things beyond ourselves. When people gather in a collective this (in a manner of speaking) dust devil can grow, and grow into a cyclone. An egregore is a volley of gunfire, where you can't pick out a single shooter. The concept of the egregore allows these things to be objectified and directed by those with magical skill--but it is nothing more. It's as unique as the humans who feed into it.

Now, do symbols carry some latent memes associated with them? Can you seperate the Judeo-Christian god from things like 'sin', or 'heaven', or 'angels', or 'Bible'? Would they affect what you do? Color your rituals and workings? Perhaps--I wouldn't know. I avoid the matter entirely by staying away from it.

 

[Mannimarco]

Many people utilize egregores in their personal workings and practices, oblivious to the fact that they are essentially being misled and led away from the real path, which is highly individual. We can examine people utilizing, for instance, Christian energies in their works, all the while pretending the 2000 years of Christian oppression of esoteric practices has no relation whatsoever to what theyre doing. In connecting to god, or gods, or spirits, or Buddhas, what is at work is simply the engagement of an egregore -some long-standing-.

I agree. I have done extensive divination on the topic, and inquired of higher spirits, including journeys to the Source, and the answer I consistently get is that entities are the same age as their mythologies. In other words, they were created by humans believing in them. I haven't pursued this with every entity in existence, mostly the norse, qliphothic, and christian pantheons.

Egregores are a limiting factor towards the individuals attainment of ascension/immortality.

These egregores inhibit both the interaction with actual higher dimensions, as well as the transformational process that leads to personal immortality as a power unto one's self.

I don't think this has to be the case, though it can be, and often is. It's all about one's relationship to the thing in question. Sure, giving your power away, and seeking to serve another and do their will, is working against your ascension. But other forms of relationship are possible. If a person can find a productive relationship with an egregore, seeing them for what they are, and working together cooperatively, with mutual respect, they can be very helpful. Their age, experience, and knowledge of how to get things done on earth is valuable.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I agree. I have done extensive divination on the topic, and inquired of higher spirits, including journeys to the Source, and the answer I consistently get is that entities are the same age as their mythologies. In other words, they were created by humans believing in them. I haven't pursued this with every entity in existence, mostly the norse, qliphothic, and christian pantheons.



I don't think this has to be the case, though it can be, and often is. It's all about one's relationship to the thing in question. Sure, giving your power away, and seeking to serve another and do their will, is working against your ascension. But other forms of relationship are possible. If a person can find a productive relationship with an egregore, seeing them for what they are, and working together cooperatively, with mutual respect, they can be very helpful. Their age, experience, and knowledge of how to get things done on earth is valuable.

We've had 1000s of years of religions with billions upon billions of people adhering to these dogmas/egregores. The number of liberated humans is very scant. What we have had are very oppressive societies and fucked up social systems and wars and all the rest religion has had to contribute.

 

[silencewaits]

We've had 1000s of years of religions with billions upon billions of people adhering to these dogmas/egregores. The number of liberated humans is very scant. What we have had are very oppressive societies and fucked up social systems and wars and all the rest religion has had to contribute.

The majority of those 'billions and billions' of people are dead. Corpses, skeletons, or dust. The same god, spirit, angel, or whatever, can be seen very differently by multitudes of just as different groups.

I don't think this has to be the case, though it can be, and often is. It's all about one's relationship to the thing in question. Sure, giving your power away, and seeking to serve another and do their will, is working against your ascension. But other forms of relationship are possible. If a person can find a productive relationship with an egregore, seeing them for what they are, and working together cooperatively, with mutual respect, they can be very helpful. Their age, experience, and knowledge of how to get things done on earth is valuable.

The egregore and the people that it results from are one and the same. There is, in a manner of speaking, nothing to work with. It is this working that creates the egregore, with the collective weight of these people working together reinforcing it. Odin is not an egregore; a group that venerates Odin can produce an egregore.

 

[Mannimarco]

We've had 1000s of years of religions with billions upon billions of people adhering to these dogmas/egregores. The number of liberated humans is very scant. What we have had are very oppressive societies and fucked up social systems and wars and all the rest religion has had to contribute.

I know, I live here. My point is that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Even just interacting with the same egregore through a magickal system vs a religious system is completely different. When you interact with that same egregore from the perspective of seeing the truth of it, and yourself, the experience is hugely different again, and there is potential value to be had in it for the sorcerer.

 

[Beyond Everything]

The majority of those 'billions and billions' of people are dead. Corpses, skeletons, or dust. The same god, spirit, angel, or whatever, can be seen very differently by multitudes of just as different groups.

Yes, they are dead and did not immortalize their consciousness. Instead they spent their time enmeshed in egregores, dogmas, and mystical fantasies. 'Seeing different' means little. Results are what count.

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:28 AM

I know, I live here. My point is that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Even just interacting with the same egregore through a magickal system vs a religious system is completely different. When you interact with that same egregore from the perspective of seeing the truth of it, and yourself, the experience is hugely different again, and there is potential value to be had in it for the sorcerer.

These energies are polluted. But people are welcome to continue experiencing limitation. I've yet to see fantasic results (including the development of immortality) in all those people working with religious energies.

 

[silencewaits]

Yes, they are dead and did not immortalize their consciousness. Instead they spent their time enmeshed in egregores, dogmas, and mystical fantasies. 'Seeing different' means little. Results are what count.

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:28 AM

These energies are polluted. But people are welcome to continue experiencing limitation. I've yet to see fantasic results (including the development of immortality) in all those people working with religious energies.

How does someone, in your view, immortalize their consciousness?

 

[Beyond Everything]

Words are inadequate, but one holistically transmutes into a certain kind of subtle body that is imperishable. There are unmistakble signs this process is underway, which are practically never discussed by occult authors- which shows they are oblivious.

 

[silencewaits]

Words are inadequate, but one holistically transmutes into a certain kind of subtle body that is imperishable. There are unmistakble signs this process is underway, which are practically never discussed by occult authors- which shows they are oblivious.

You mean the 'rainbow body' of the Tibetans, or the coagulation of the alchemists? The Taoist cultivator's dream of numbering among the xian. Modernists have tried to rid themselves of 'religion' and 'mythology'; the symbols of their forefathers. We use pseudo-scientific terms but seem no closer to understanding what the ancients hinted at long ago. The somewhat useful references of the Chaotes have become synonyms, not tools--putting psychology and physics on the fringes. We busy ourselves daily with more abstractions than they ever knew--they as in those who lived in a time where there was all the time in the world to meditate, and cultivate, and all the other -ates'. And somewhere along the line we imagined ourselves more enlightened than they were because we have access to information men and women smarter than us discovered. But yet, we say the same things they did, just in fancier ways.

Anyway, I am interested in the signs this process is underway. What would you say they are?

 

[Beyond Everything]

You mean the 'rainbow body' of the Tibetans, or the coagulation of the alchemists? The Taoist cultivator's dream of numbering among the xian. Modernists have tried to rid themselves of 'religion' and 'mythology'; the symbols of their forefathers. We use pseudo-scientific terms but seem no closer to understanding what the ancients hinted at long ago. The somewhat useful references of the Chaotes have become synonyms, not tools--putting psychology and physics on the fringes. We busy ourselves daily with more abstractions than they ever knew--they as in those who lived in a time where there was all the time in the world to meditate, and cultivate, and all the other -ates'. And somewhere along the line we imagined ourselves more enlightened than they were because we have access to information men and women smarter than us discovered. But yet, we say the same things they did, just in fancier ways.

Anyway, I am interested in the signs this process is underway. What would you say they are?

Dispensing with religions and mythologies of the past opens one up to dimensions not typically accessed. For instance, the source of the universe is a place one can go to while out of body (IF you're developed enough), and it doesn't really tally with what various mysticisms say it is.

As far as signs, if you experience them you don't need anyone to tell you what they are. An eminently palpable and constant one is a radical change in the way one experiences the physical body.

If we are so in awe of the wisdom of the ancients, why don't we explore something a little more down-to-earth. Before New Thought (which itself is hampered by religious considerations), you had NO text describing how something like simple visualization ALONE could alter realityto bring about desired material results (I know some people like to say the New Testament does, but I don't buy it. And Vedic traditions didnt just use visualization). How on earth did all these spiritual geniuses miss such a basic reality?

The ancients were at the mercy of evolutionary quirks of the brain as well as egregores as we are. These traditions contain many wonder stories, as well.

 

[silencewaits]

From the Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 11, Chapter 15, Text 26:

yathā sańkalpayed buddhyā
yadā vā mat-paraḥ pumān
mayi satye mano yuñjaḿs
tathā tat samupāśnute

English Translations:
When someone by means of his reason became convinced of My truth, or else by his devotion unto Me, he with his mind thus absorbed, consequently will achieve his purpose.

A yogi who has faith in Me, absorbing his mind in Me and knowing that My purpose is always fulfilled, will always achieve his purpose by the very means he has determined to follow.

To become convinced that simple visualization can produce results, one must first believe that it is possible to do so. One must come to the realization that there exists a mechanism by which they can do so. The map is never the terrain. And my point is not that they are somehow geniuses or just because something is old and written beautifully that it is better, I'm just saying we're not any better than them. Sure, we may have developed along the way. Figured out more efficient means. But we are reliant upon them just the same. 'Subtle bodies', some magical split between your physical existence and some other imperceptible one, these are just as mystical. Why not look into their writings? Why must they be dispensed with?

As far as signs, if you experience them you don't need anyone to tell you what they are. An eminently palpable and constant one is a radical change in the way one experiences the physical body.

How does it differ from how someone unenlightened experiences their physical body? I'm curious.

 

[Beyond Everything]

From the Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 11, Chapter 15, Text 26:

That does not say simply visualizing you can attract things you want. It says with faith and absorption in a particular egregore, everything one sets out to do will be successful. NOT the same thing at all. Again, the texts worldwide never once mention what is a basic human ability. It's quite remarkable if you stop and think about it

'Subtle bodies', some magical split between your physical existence and some other imperceptible one, these are just as mystical. Why not look into their writings? Why must they be dispensed with?

No, my definition of mystical are states of consciousness brought about by an egregore, by the quirks of our evolved biology, or a combination of the two.

I mean anyone can read and slavishly follow their writings. What Im doing is opening the door a very miniscule crack and perhaps someone will not be content with what is given.

 

[silencewaits]

That does not say simply visualizing you can attract things you want. It says with faith and absorption in a particular egregore, everything one sets out to do will be successful. NOT the same thing at all. Again, the texts worldwide never once mention what is a basic human ability. It's quite remarkable if you stop and think about it



No, my definition of mystical are states of consciousness brought about by an egregore, by the quirks of our evolved biology, or a combination of the two.

I mean anyone can read and slavishly follow their writings. What Im doing is opening the door a very miniscule crack and perhaps someone will not be content with what is given.

That is exactly what it describes. Do you "manifest" or "attract" results through visualization and intent while retaining everyday, waking consciousness? Perhaps you are not familiar with the meditative practices of the yogis--that's okay. But you are not opening any doors, just saying that all is egregores and dogma. Is the concept of a subtle body separate from our own, that exists apart from our physical existence, not predicated on the same kind of beliefs? I am not familiar with any biologist that claims the existence of the subtle body, but many mystical texts make those claims.

What egregores can also do is induce in the human under their influence experiences labeled as divine. The picture is further complicated because the human brain also naturally can induce what are labeled as mystical experiences (a tab of LSD demonstrates this aptly).

Where do these egregores exist? Higher dimensions? Spiritual dimensions? What underpins them? Why would a physical, material brain interact with that? Why is your transcendent system better than any other? What's wrong with learning from them?