[Opinion] Why does Q vs K vs C make a difference? Kabbalah Discussion

[Xenophon]

This would be Qabbalah with a Q, hermetic. The "spirits" are archetypes represented by different cards in the deck. The way to begin is to learn about the Tarot deck and explore the symbolism of each of the cards. Each of these archetypes/spirits exist in the psyche, so connecting to them is done through meditation. Each card exists on the Qabbalistic ( not Kabbalistic ) tree-of-life.

This gives a nice easy set of instructions:

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This looks to be a very good resource:

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And why does Q vs K vs C make a difference? (Beyond showmanship.)

 

[Roma]

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The real issue in my view is the nature of the entity within which such work is done. It has its own agenda that predates this solar system.

Perhaps it is better to move with the cosmic times

 

[Ziran]

And why does Q vs K vs C make a difference? (Beyond showmanship.)

It's a deep rabbit hole. Quite literally.

"C" Cabbalah, I am not familiar with but the C stands for "Christian Kabbalah" What I've seen of it is usually a greek version of gematria and it's generally been employed to prove that Christianity is true.

"Q" Qabbalah is hermetic. There's a good wiki article on it, see link below. But the biggest difference is that Qabbalah positions "Ein/Ain" "Nothingness" as the highest ideal and principle and denies that there can be anything before it. The implications of this is best summarized by Crowley "Do what thou will is the whole of the law." If there is "nothing" at the core of everything, then a person can imagine a world where they are the ultimate aribiter of what is right or wrong, good or evil, helpful or harmful. From this a person can consider themself their own god or a god over others, if they choose to do so. This god could be the worst of the worst or the best of the best or anything the person chooses moment to moment to moment. And I am not faulting this attitude. It is certainly useful in the proper context, but it can also lead to tremendous harmful actions.

"K" Kabbalah is the original version, basically. It is more complete, more balanced. The Tree-of-Life is better balanced. "Nothingness" is put in its proper place as a partner in an ongoing dance with "Everything". The distinction between sephirot and middot are emphasized. The meaning of the sephirot is much better described. For example: in Qabbalah I notice many ( all? ) translate Chesed as mercy. In Kabbalah mercy is a middot. And it is associated with tiferet as rachamim. Chesed is altogether different. It helps and harms. Just as Gevurah can help and harm. Just as ALL of it can help and harm. And that is why the Kabbalah is complete. It sees both sides of the coin, and how both sides can be for help or for harm in any and all situations in any possible world. Qabbalah doesn't do that. And a lot of that goes back to this notion that "nothingness" is supreme instead of placing it in a partnership.


Regarding completeness:

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A primary concern of Hermetic Qabalah is the nature of divinity, its conception of which is quite markedly different from that presented in

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religions; in particular there is not the strict separation between divinity and humankind which is seen in classical monotheism. Hermetic Qabalah adheres to the Neoplatonic conception that the manifest universe, of which material creation is a part, arose as a series of "emanations" from the "godhead".

Notice: they got the emanations correct, but they are missing the vessels, the shells, the klipoth. When a person is working with Qabbalah, they are very possibly actually working with klipoth, because, this system does not recgnize a distinction between divinity producing material and divinity producing spiritual. Erasing that permists a person to work with forces that are, for lack of betters words, being cursed.

Kabbalah, using a complete perspective understands these two, the material and the spiritual as both coming fromm a ddivine source, both has significant, let's say, power. And it really depends on how they are used which determines whether they are helpful or harmful to the practionner or others around them.

These emanations arise out of three preliminary states that are considered to precede manifestation. The first is a state of complete nullity, known as Ain (אין "nothing"); the second state, considered a "concentration" of Ain, is Ain Suph (אין סוף "without limit, infinite"); the third state, caused by a "movement" of Ain Suph, is Ain Suph Aur (אין סוף אור "limitless light"), and it is from this initial brilliance that the first emanation of creation originates.

Notice: they left out that these are all happening simultaneously. There is no "first" although there is a way to consider it first. And that can cause some problems if one is not aware of or able to pivot between these different perspectives. From the finite perspective yes. The "Ein/Ain" would have come before "Assiyah" the realm of making-and-doing. But from the infinite perspective not at all. So, if there is a demon, for lack of better words, that desires to erase everything and nullify everything, it can claim "I am the first" without lying. People channel this "demon" and it is not lying. But it's not totally true. It's lying by ommission, but not technically lying which would compromise its existence.

Kabbalah teaches how to understand this "nothingness", when and how to use it, why it was created, why it can be considered to be the first, and also how that is incomplete. It's just like anything else in the Kabbalistic framework. It is for a divine purpose. Whether it is helpful or harmful comes from the hard work of evaluating the circumstances on a case by case basis. In this way, Kabbalah is a true middle path. RHP+LHP=Kabbalah=Complete.

Post-Enlightenment

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encouraged societal interest in occultism, of which Hermetic Qabalistic writing was a feature.

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's

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(1801) handbook of

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gained little notice until it influenced the French magical enthusiast

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(1810–1875). His fanciful literary embellishments of magical

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presented Qabalism as synonymous with both

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and

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. Levi's innovations included attributing the Hebrew letters to the Tarot cards, thus formulating a link between Western magic and Jewish esotericism which has remained fundamental ever since in Western magic. Levi had a deep impact on the magic of the

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. Through the occultists inspired by him (including

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, who considered himself Levi's reincarnation) Levi is remembered as one of the key founders of the 20th-century revival of magic.

Notice: Jewish Kabbalistic terms/ideas were added to Hermetic Qabbalah. It really doesn't seem to follow Kabbalah in a manner that is true to its roots which is a complete mystical system which sees all things in a partnership, an inseperable dance, which can applied for help and/or for harm depending on the individual. A great example of this is Samael. People say that Samael was an angel and then fell. Not according to Kabbalah. They're all angels, they're all divine, but it depends on what they're doing from the finite perspective which determining the judgement, again from a finite persepctive of angel or demon. The right hand can both help or heal. The left hand can both help or heal. The best results from from teamwork, yesod, the foundation, the "eternal secret" that's literally what it means. And all of this is coming from a mysterious, ineffable, unknowable source. Not Qabbalah at all.

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That's a really well written article. Thank you.

 

[KjEno186]

"K" Kabbalah is the original version, basically. It is more complete, more balanced.

Is it really so? Jake Stratton-Kent, for example, wrote that Jewish Kabbala was just one factor in the development and transmission of Neo-Platonism from its origins in Greece to the present day. For example, Gematria is of Greek origin and means "geometry." Without the Greeks and Egyptians, we wouldn't have Hermetic Qabalah. Nineteenth century magicians such as Levi were still laboring under the false impression that Hebrew was a primordial alphabet, but of course we know better nowadays. Naturally, ceremonial magicians will unavoidably learn some Hebrew (that dates from the Middle Ages and Renaissance magical traditions), but it is hardly a requirement to actually practice magic and pathworking. No single nation or religion developed in isolation. All is borrowed from everyone. Take what is necessary and discard the rest.

What is surprising is not that [Graeco-Egyptian] elements persist, since without them the tradition would scarcely exist, but that the Hebrew elements should have persisted alongside them, since for any but academic and comparative purposes they are inessential, obscurantist, and do much to reinforce the effects of previous religious conditioning which initiation is intended to remove. - Jake Stratton-Kent, The Serpent Tongue Liber 187​

​

The implications of this is best summarized by Crowley "Do what thou will is the whole of the law."

"Well, the Bible's not my Holy Book, and The Book of the Law doesn't need the Bible to prop it up! Show me a Qabalah in English ... one that uses The Book of the Law and not the Bible!" - Jake Stratton-Kent quoting his wife. ​

 

[Ziran]

"K" Kabbalah is the original version, basically. It is more complete, more balanced.

Is it really so?

To the very best of my knowledge, yes. 10 sephirot + 22 letters = 32 gates = Lamed-Vet = Leiv = Heart. That's the original. It comes from sefer yetzirah. That's the oldest extant version of those ideas which are the formulation of the tree-of-life. Regarding balance, yes, absolutely. In Kabbalah, like I said it places "nothingness" the "ein" in "Kesser/Kether" when that is actually the inverse of "Kesser/Kether". Kabbalah includes both. In Qabbalah there is only one version of the Kesser/Kether, the one which permits absolute freedom.

The oldest picture of the tree of life that I am aware of is below. This matches Kabbalah, not the one in use by Kabbalah. The important detail is that everything is flowing through yesod.

This is another great picture: The Shefa Tal. Some may recall I mentioned the "shefa" in one of my recent posts. This is part of the traditional ritual for the priestly blessing. Also the inspiration for leonard nimoy's "live love and prosper" from star-trek.

These aren't found in Qabbalah. They all come from Kabbalah. Qabbalah adopted some of the words and ideas of Kabbalah, when people are looking at the tree-of-life, and talking about sephirot, and using hebrew words and letters. Those are borrowed and applied in a very specific manner. Kabbalah is not limited to that one specific manner.

Gem atria is of Greek origin and means "geometry."

The ideas of the union of letters and numbers might have existed in other written texts prior to the hebrew bible, I don't know. But there are significant connections in the hebrew which are very old and are encoded in the text itself. One great example is looking at the above. The hands. I could do a rather lengthy derivation about those hands, their segments, their fingers, and connect that to the initial verses of genesis, and also the to the divine name, and also the divine hands of chesed and gevurah and koach and koach-mah aka chochmah. And it goes on and on and on. The text, even according to the critics, is crica 500BCE. So, these numeric connections to the text are real, and unique to the hebrew bible.

The balance that I'm talking about is also there, but it's not as easy to see. For example, if one goes to a real Torah scroll, and looks at the word "yotzter" when the first human is being formed. There is a curious misspelling. Double-yuds. 10 and 10. Two balanced sets of 10 soul-powers" were formed and included in that human. That's what we're taught, at least. How long have these scrolls being scribed this way? A long time.

Even if one goes back to the proto-cannanite script, the alpeh? It's not an "ox". There's two sides of a mirror. On one side it's open and on the other side it's closed. There is a flow going through the mirror. And this fits nicely with a "silent" letter like the aleph, which adopts whatever vowel sound is partnered with it.

It's not an "ox". That makes about as much sense as claiming that "kesser/kether" is "nothingness" best described by "the fool" aka 0, in the Tarot. That is the inverse of kesser/kether. If Kesser/Kether is *actually the aleph, then the inverse of that is the other silent letter, the ayin. Bingo! Now we're talking about "nothingness". Ayin is a vessel. Ayin is the first letter of Assiyah. Working with "nothingness" is working with an empty vessel which is right-here-right-now, proximal to everything in Assiyah. That's why it's so popular, and it works. It's inherently in the realm of assiyah. But, it is klipoth. That's what it is. If a person wants to work with something "lofty" for lack of better words, that's the aleph in atzilut, which is kesser/kether in it is proper conventional original intended essence.

Naturally, ceremonial magicians will unavoidably learn some Hebrew (that dates from the Middle Ages and Renaissance magical traditions), but it is hardly a requirement to actually practice magic and path working.

Agreed. What I like about having the foundation in Kabbalah is that when I learn something from another tradition, most often, it clicks right away. "Yeah, that makes sense". I read a book about a famous Mayan healer, and so much of that book resonated with me, even though it was so very distant from my culture.

Well, the Bible's not my Holy Book, and The Book of the Law doesn't need the Bible to prop it up! Show me a Qabalah in English ... one that uses The Book of the Law and not the Bible!" -

I agree, absolutely. I adhere to the Torah's laws, but that's because those laws apply to me, literally. My mother is a Levi. My family was there, according to our family tree. If a rule is not given to a person, it's not a crime to break it. There's no rule to break. It's a big responsibility keeping those rules. But, ultimately, it's all a choice. Working with the Klipoth is much easier. And there is, definitely, a way of looking at these ancient magical philosophies such that "nothingness" and absolute freedom are permitted, but that would not mean there are actually no rules and no consequences as Crowley asserts. It's just one perspective among others. The rules and consequences are being ignored or denied, temporarily while one is working/playing that "Fool" card #0, hopefully for a greater good, for helping not for harming.

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The oldest picture of the tree of life that I am aware of is below. This matches Kabbalah, not the one in use by Kabbalah. The important detail is that everything is flowing through yesod.

Sorry. My spell-checker auto corrected Qabbalah. I missed un-correcting it. It should read:

The oldest picture of the tree of life that I am aware of is below. This matches Kabbalah not the one in use by Qabbalah. The important detail is that everything is flowing through yesod.

 

[Roma]

Abraham came from Sumer and Moses grew up in Egypt. The ancient Egyptians considered 5 souls in the human as does the Kabbalah.

Is the Jewish version of the Kabbalah the original?

Does the practice of the Kabbalah exist within the light-body of a great Entity?

Are the agendas of that Entity suitable for humans in this solar system?

Too hard?

 

[KjEno186]

I adhere to the Torah's laws, but that's because those laws apply to me, literally. My mother is a Levi. My family was there, according to our family tree.

Yes, by all means if it is your tradition, and it is to your advantage, you will desire to follow it. A native of Japan would likely follow Kotodama, for example, and so on. It is a "tradition" that is "received," and who better to receive it than those who have it in their blood, so to speak. Those of us at liberty to choose have no disadvantage in looking at the variety of languages from Greek to Ogham to Runes, and even the I Ching can be used for skrying.

 

[Ziran]

Abraham came from Sumer and Moses grew up in Egypt.

True. But there are at lease two-sides to every story.

The ancient Egyptians considered 5 souls in the human as does the Kabbalah.

Kabbalah describes the soul as having 5 attributes. I would appreciate reading more about these 5 egyptian souls.

Is the Jewish version of the Kabbalah the original?

Regarding the tree-of-life, the 10 sephirot, 22 letters, 32 paths of the heart all of which are above and below, left and right, inner and outer? I have never seen anything else like it. It is completely unique.

Does the practice of the Kabbalah exist within the light-body of a great Entity?

I do not know any great Entity.

Are the agendas of that Entity suitable for humans in this solar system?

Whatever it is, it's going to fine. Everything is going according to plan.

Too hard?

Comme-ci-comme-ca

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Yes, by all means if it is your tradition, and it is to your advantage, you will desire to follow it. A native of Japan would likely follow Kotodama, for example, and so on. It is a "tradition" that is "received," and who better to receive it than those who have it in their blood, so to speak. Those of us at liberty to choose have no disadvantage in looking at the variety of languages from Greek to Ogham to Runes, and even the I Ching can be used for skrying.

I think it's great too. I love learning about the other traditions. Comparing contrasting, making new friends. Sharing is caring.

 

[Xenophon]

True. But there are at lease two-sides to every story.




Kabbalah describes the soul as having 5 attributes. I would appreciate reading more about these 5 egyptian souls.



Regarding the tree-of-life, the 10 sephirot, 22 letters, 32 paths of the heart all of which are above and below, left and right, inner and outer? I have never seen anything else like it. It is completely unique.



I do not know any great Entity.



Whatever it is, it's going to fine. Everything is going according to plan.



Comme-ci-comme-ca

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I think it's great too. I love learning about the other traditions. Comparing contrasting, making new friends. Sharing is caring.

Moses was raised Egyptian. Abraham is a bit more questionable. He is called a "wandering Aramean," and was thus possibly outside the cultural mainstream.

 

[Roma]

Regarding the tree-of-life, the 10 sephirot, 22 letters, 32 paths of the heart all of which are above and below, left and right, inner and outer? I have never seen anything else like it. It is completely unique.

Here the Eagles (astronauts) are collecting the food of life from the Tree to store in their handbags as emergency rations. Note the central pillar and 10 external clusters with paths and three clusters on top.

The gods were dying under this aging sun and went on strike to get the food of life and the water of life to maintain their immortality here.

 

[Ziran]

Moses was raised Egyptian

He was raised by his own mother.

Abraham is a bit more questionable. He is called a "wandering Aramean," and was thus possibly outside the cultural mainstream.

Abraham had a realization of יהוה. So did Moses.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2023

Here the Eagles (astronauts) are collecting the food of life from the Tree to store in their handbags as emergency rations. Note the central pillar and 10 external clusters with paths and three clusters on top.

The gods were dying under this aging sun and went on strike to get the food of life and the water of life to maintain their immortality here.

I see the 10, I do not see the 22, the 3 at the top is not significant at all. The configuration is not similar either. Please compare to the picture I posted where everything is flowing through yesod.

In order to convince me, if that is important to you at all, I would need a lot more than this.

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Here's another one. Same motif. This shows the number of the branches is not signficant.

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It looks like in the original relief there is another tree behind the eagles. It is Assyrian from 850ish BCE

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[KjEno186]

Posts above were moved (will be moved?) to this thread. Feel free to continue the discussion below!

 

[Ziran]

Posts above were moved (will be moved?) to this thread. Feel free to continue the discussion below!

Thank you for this. I'm going to review the video you posted, and maybe post my thoughts on it here.

 

[KjEno186]

I'm going to review the video you posted

There are (at least) three parts. I know I need to watch/listen again since there is much to absorb. And then I need to watch the corresponding videos by ESOTERICA, as I have found much wisdom in his presentations relating to the occult and Hermeticism.

 

[Ziran]

There are (at least) three parts. I know I need to watch/listen again since there is much to absorb. And then I need to watch the corresponding videos by ESOTERICA, as I have found much wisdom in his presentations relating to the occult and Hermeticism.

The tricky thing about discussing videos is each individual is going to be inclined to overlay the content with their own context and preferences. The longer the video, the more likely there will be speedbumps ( or major roadblocks ) interferring with the exchange of ideas. To be clear I am including myself in this. But, I do have practice removing myself from the ... equation, for lack of a better word. I will try to do this to foster a productive discussion.

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@KjEno186 ,

At 8:24 in the video you posted a very important distinction is made. They are excluding mercavah mysticism. That's the Tree-of-Life. So by fast-forwarding to 1200CE as opposed to going back to the Pre-Talmudic era.

Also, important to note: I am very-very familiar with the speaker's point of view. We both come from the same community. They are, more or less coming from the persepctive of Rambam/Abulafia. This is a very important detail. It's easily seen by watching their other videos. Rambam, absolutely 100% was influenced by greek philosophy. It is one of the reasons that his books were being burned, and he was harshly rebuked by the mystical community. Not only did Rambam adopt greek philosophy and smuggle it, for lack of a better word, into Jewish philosophy, he atttacked Jewish mystics. He attacked the sephirot, he attacked the Tree-of-Life.

This attack is on-going by a specific group called the Baladi coming from Yemen, but they are now stationed in Israel. In english they are called Rambamists, but they are hiding their devotion and adherence to Rambam as a prophet, and, in my judgement, they consider him to the Moshiach, the Jewish messiah. But this is not spoken of openly.

In my community the 7th Lubavitch Rebbe attempted to, and quite successfully, repair the rift, settle the feud between the hyper-rationalist Rambamist and the Free-spirit mystics. This is philosophy, imo, is woven throughout this speaker's videos. it is a rational approach to Kabbalah, as is evident in our moniker Chabad - Chochmah-Binah-Daas. And this notion of lifting up the intellect as the ideal is absolutely of greek origin. Rambam definitely was in this category too. As a physician, probably greek trained, it fits like a glove. I could write several more paragraphs about this topic alone.

In addition, there is a tremendous amount of historical context that would need to be introduced into this discussion which explains the 'why' behind choosing to avoid the mercavah, the tree-of-life in the heart makes sense on so many levels for Jewish people. It's important in this discussion because over a 1000 years is being scrapped from the discussion. And it is important to understand why thats happening. Then one can make an objective conclusion about what is being brought in those videos.

In summary: there is an inherent bias to this speaker. They have a specific point of view. It's not right, it's not wrong. it just is. And I think that is of the highest import when reviewing the information they have chosen to present and when considering the information they have chosen to omit.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2023

So by fast-forwarding to 1200CE as opposed to going back to the Pre-Talmudic era.

Sorry, I'm busy and multi-tasking: I meant to type: by fast-forwarding to 1200CE as opposed to going back to the Pre-Talmudic era they are advancing to a point where there was an intentional mixing.

And the speaker is coming from a Rambam/Abulafia point of view which really-really favors the greek point of view.

Post automatically merged: Oct 25, 2023

Next important piece of the puzzle: The assumptions of Gershom Scholem, the elephant hiding in plain sight.

What Sholem is studying are essentially rogue manuscripts of Jewish mysticism. They are not supposed to be written down. Jewish Gnosticism is lifting up "knowledge" as the highest ideal, in the same way that neoplatonism is lifting up "knowledge as the highest ideal". That is a major no-no. Jewish Kabbalah teaches per Elijah... THE Elijah:

וּבְגִין דְּאַנְתְּ מִלגָאו, כָּל מַאן דְּאַפְרֵישׁ חַד מֵחַבְרֵיהּ, מֵאִלֵּין עֲשַׂר סְפִירָן, אִתְחַשֵּׁב לֵיהּ כְּאִלּוּ אַפְרֵישׁ בָּךְ​

​

... whosoever sunders one from its mate of these Ten S’firot to him it is accounted as if he had sundered You.​

So, lifting up one of the sefirot is itself a problem, not to mention that lifting up knowledge specifically is a no-no ( that's the garden of eden). And borrowing from Greek wisdom is a no-no too. Talmud Sota:

אוֹתָהּ שָׁעָה אָמְרוּ: אָרוּר אָדָם שֶׁיְּגַדֵּל חֲזִירִים, וְאָרוּר אָדָם שֶׁיְּלַמֵּד לִבְנוֹ חׇכְמַת יְווֹנִית. וְעַל אוֹתָהּ שָׁנָה שָׁנִינוּ: מַעֲשֶׂה וּבָא עוֹמֶר מִגַּגּוֹת צְרִיפִים, וּשְׁתֵּי הַלֶּחֶם מִבִּקְעַת עֵין סוֹכֵר​

​

they said that time: Cursed is the person who raises pigs, and cursed is the person who teaches his son Greek wisdom.​

So, when one is looking at what Scholem is studying, it's pretty much renegade material. There's a whole different side of it. Returing to Elijah:

וְאִתְקְרִֽיאוּ בְּתִקּוּנָא דָא​

They are thus called in the following Tikkun...

.חֶֽסֶד דְּרוֹעָא יְמִינָא. גְּבוּרָה דְּרוֹעָא שְׂמָאלָא. תִּפְאֶֽרֶת גּוּפָא. נֶֽצַח הוֹד תְּרֵין שׁוֹקִין. יְסוֹד סִיּוּמָא דְגוּפָא אוֹת בְּרִית קֹֽדֶשׁ. מַלְכוּת פֶּה תּוֹרָה שֶׁבְּעַל פֶּה קְרִינָן לָהּ.

Hesed the ‘Right Arm’ Gevurah the ‘Left Arm’ Tiferet the ‘Trunk’ Netzaḥ and Hod the two ‘Thighs’ Y’sod the trunk’s ‘Extremity’; sign of the Covenant most holy. Malkhuth the mouth’; the oral Torah/Teachings we call it.

חָכְמָה מוֹחָא אִיהִוּ מַחֲשָׁבָה מִלְּגָאו. בִּינָה לִבָּא וּבָהּ הַלֵּב מֵבִין.

Hokhmah the ‘Brain’; it is the Thought within. Binah, the ‘Heart’ in it understands. The very heart of understanding.​

There. It. Is. That ^^ is Jewish Kabbalah. That is the mercavah. The Heart of Understanding. How does that happen? A little earlier Elijah talks about pouring. It's not actually a tree. They're vessels. And the Shefa is an ever-flowing / over-flowing of vitality. The best image is a tower of champaign glasses. And iif one goes to a traditional Kiddush, that's what they will see, more-or-less, when the wine is being poured. The vessel of understanding, Binah is on the border of both heart and mind. Both simultaneously. From the finite perspective going "up" the "tree", the heart is flowing pouring into Binah. When a person does this they are creating a chariot.

Chesed and Gevurah immediately below are described like the two wings of a bird. ( I wish I could easily post pictures here ). I havee great ppicture of he Chayot with their wings at grand central station in NY city. If one looks at the "tree" per Isaac Luria the linkage between Chesed and Gevurah is the ALEPH, which is a perfect fit in that location. Qabbalah places Tet there. Why? I think it's homage to the serpent. But the Aleph there fits beautifully. That's how we do it.

This is not gnostic in anyway. It is absolutely unique. I really don't think it's fair to look only at Jewish gnoticism as the stereotype. That's an off-shoot. They are, in a way, pursuing the serpent. It's for a good cause. That's a story for another day. But for the historian, it gives them something to look at, when behind the scenes something else is happening which is beyond their reach. It's occult. And the speaker in the video is a rationalist, Chabad is itself rationaist. That's where he comees from. Chabad does not teach Kabbalah, it's Chabad Chassidus which is itself rationalist.

 

[Roma]

Does the practice of the Kabbalah exist within the light-body of a great Entity?

It seems to me that this is the key.

Where is the wizard that can observe the solar systemic bubbles within which humans may operate?

 

[Xenophon]

He was raised by his own mother.



Abraham had a realization of יהוה. So did Moses.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2023

I see the 10, I do not see the 22, the 3 at the top is not significant at all. The configuration is not similar either. Please compare to the picture I posted where everything is flowing through yesod.

In order to convince me, if that is important to you at all, I would need a lot more than this.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2023

Here's another one. Same motif. This shows the number of the branches is not signficant.

Post automatically merged: Oct 24, 2023

It looks like in the original relief there is another tree behind the eagles. It is Assyrian from 850ish BCE

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Sorry. I forgot that bit. Pharoh's daughter finds him, then farms the kid back to mum.
Abraham had a realization? Heck, every fourth or fifth guy who ever wandered the Middle East has a realization of the One True God.

Post automatically merged: Oct 25, 2023

It's a deep rabbit hole. Quite literally.

"C" Cabbalah, I am not familiar with but the C stands for "Christian Kabbalah" What I've seen of it is usually a greek version of gematria and it's generally been employed to prove that Christianity is true.

"Q" Qabbalah is hermetic. There's a good wiki article on it, see link below. But the biggest difference is that Qabbalah positions "Ein/Ain" "Nothingness" as the highest ideal and principle and denies that there can be anything before it. The implications of this is best summarized by Crowley "Do what thou will is the whole of the law." If there is "nothing" at the core of everything, then a person can imagine a world where they are the ultimate aribiter of what is right or wrong, good or evil, helpful or harmful. From this a person can consider themself their own god or a god over others, if they choose to do so. This god could be the worst of the worst or the best of the best or anything the person chooses moment to moment to moment. And I am not faulting this attitude. It is certainly useful in the proper context, but it can also lead to tremendous harmful actions.

"K" Kabbalah is the original version, basically. It is more complete, more balanced. The Tree-of-Life is better balanced. "Nothingness" is put in its proper place as a partner in an ongoing dance with "Everything". The distinction between sephirot and middot are emphasized. The meaning of the sephirot is much better described. For example: in Qabbalah I notice many ( all? ) translate Chesed as mercy. In Kabbalah mercy is a middot. And it is associated with tiferet as rachamim. Chesed is altogether different. It helps and harms. Just as Gevurah can help and harm. Just as ALL of it can help and harm. And that is why the Kabbalah is complete. It sees both sides of the coin, and how both sides can be for help or for harm in any and all situations in any possible world. Qabbalah doesn't do that. And a lot of that goes back to this notion that "nothingness" is supreme instead of placing it in a partnership.


Regarding completeness:

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Notice: they got the emanations correct, but they are missing the vessels, the shells, the klipoth. When a person is working with Qabbalah, they are very possibly actually working with klipoth, because, this system does not recgnize a distinction between divinity producing material and divinity producing spiritual. Erasing that permists a person to work with forces that are, for lack of betters words, being cursed.

Kabbalah, using a complete perspective understands these two, the material and the spiritual as both coming fromm a ddivine source, both has significant, let's say, power. And it really depends on how they are used which determines whether they are helpful or harmful to the practionner or others around them.



Notice: they left out that these are all happening simultaneously. There is no "first" although there is a way to consider it first. And that can cause some problems if one is not aware of or able to pivot between these different perspectives. From the finite perspective yes. The "Ein/Ain" would have come before "Assiyah" the realm of making-and-doing. But from the infinite perspective not at all. So, if there is a demon, for lack of better words, that desires to erase everything and nullify everything, it can claim "I am the first" without lying. People channel this "demon" and it is not lying. But it's not totally true. It's lying by ommission, but not technically lying which would compromise its existence.

Kabbalah teaches how to understand this "nothingness", when and how to use it, why it was created, why it can be considered to be the first, and also how that is incomplete. It's just like anything else in the Kabbalistic framework. It is for a divine purpose. Whether it is helpful or harmful comes from the hard work of evaluating the circumstances on a case by case basis. In this way, Kabbalah is a true middle path. RHP+LHP=Kabbalah=Complete.


Notice: Jewish Kabbalistic terms/ideas were added to Hermetic Qabbalah. It really doesn't seem to follow Kabbalah in a manner that is true to its roots which is a complete mystical system which sees all things in a partnership, an inseperable dance, which can applied for help and/or for harm depending on the individual. A great example of this is Samael. People say that Samael was an angel and then fell. Not according to Kabbalah. They're all angels, they're all divine, but it depends on what they're doing from the finite perspective which determining the judgement, again from a finite persepctive of angel or demon. The right hand can both help or heal. The left hand can both help or heal. The best results from from teamwork, yesod, the foundation, the "eternal secret" that's literally what it means. And all of this is coming from a mysterious, ineffable, unknowable source. Not Qabbalah at all.

Post automatically merged: Oct 23, 2023

That's a really well written article. Thank you.

My point is there are as many takes on the word Cabalah (Q-, K-) as there are keyboards. Given the word is transliterated from Hebrew the choice of consonant is largely a matter of prevailing fashion. To insist otherwise is mystification.

 

[KjEno186]

@Ziran thank you for the summary. You're quite advanced in this, so I'll meditate upon what you've written. I have a JPS Tanakh. Do you have an opinion on its translation to English?

 

[Ziran]

@Ziran thank you for the summary. You're quite advanced in this, so I'll meditate upon what you've written. I have a JPS Tanakh. Do you have an opinion on its translation to English?

I'm not a fan of the JPS, but it's OK. It's the most popular because it's public domain. I use it because the SW on my tablet uses it. But I'm always checking the Hebrew. The original language is much much better, especially for the mystical aspects.

Post automatically merged: Oct 25, 2023

Abraham had a realization? Heck, every fourth or fifth guy who ever wandered the Middle East has a realization of the One True God.

It doesn't bother me to share it. But it's still a unique god concept at that time and even today. There's none like it.

My point is there are as many takes on the word Cabalah (Q-, K-) as there are keyboards. Given the word is transliterated from Hebrew the choice of consonant is largely a matter of prevailing fashion. To insist otherwise is mystification.

There are major differences between all three. How would you propose to distinguish them?

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2023

And then I need to watch the corresponding videos by ESOTERICA, as I have found much wisdom in his presentations relating to the occult and Hermeticism.

Thank you for the recommendation. I was not aware of this channel. I found, what I thought was, a really good video for this discussion. It's only 20 minutes long. A few of the key points that stood out to me in support of what I havee written in this thread.

1. There is no mention of any gnostic, greek or egyptian influences on the Tree of Life or the Sephirotic construct
2. What we have today was first brought into writing by Issac the Blind a student of the Ravad
3. The Ravad is the "captain" of the opposition to greek wisdom and hyper-rationalization (the Rambam) infiltrating jewish mysticism
4. There is a brief mention of the nearly infinite nested chain, the "russian doll" analogy, which I have used in another thread. This is precisely what I was taught. It is not a well known idea, but it is cerrtainly included in the dsicourse of learning the Tree-Of-Life from Jewish kabbalists. This is completely omitted from Qabbalah which is more or less pantheist.

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2023

Here is the video:

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[Seimulluh]

Check SimoParpola-TheAssyrianTreeOfLife.pdf it has lot of interesting stuff related to this.