psychedelics?

[ABigGoy4U]

I was blind to beauty before I took LSD. At least compared to my prior state. & I don't mean the 'beauty' I experienced during the trip, I mean in the months & years following.

I was also blind to horror. This time I DO mean the 'horror' I experienced during the trip. I seent the flesh Monad, possibly best represented in media with the hell scene in the Vinland Saga manga;

https://imgur.com/rYjPQZc

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That was my last trip(8 years ago now I think), it felt like something of a warning. Point being I have a long way to go before I'd welcome another trip, but I don't regret knowing.

As far as the discussion regarding unearned wisdom goes; there's certainly something to it. There's only so much you can hold onto, there's only so long you can stare at the sun with a naked eye. The dissolution of the ego & encountering 'The Oneness' was incredibly valuable to me though. It burned open pathways into territory that felt beyond my reach & also burned bridges that I'd never want to return across. Removed the temptation to do so.

Whether it truly 'dissolved' my ego or forged another is probably not worth worrying about. There's a long way to go & the work never ends; I know that won't change.

also;

Morning found me with an insipid pile of intellectual SIDS.

LMAO

 

[Signs & Sounds]

In his book “Angels in Vermillion. The Philosophers’ Stone: From Dee to DMT” author P.D. Newman lays out a compelling case that among other alchemists/ mages of the past, Dee and Kelly were actually using DMT during their scrying sessions that led to the development of Enochian magic. Seems to be historical precedent for psychedelic use as a tool for magical means

 

[Xenophon]

Can we bring it back to the topic of psychedelica (and if there's more value in getting insights this way versus obtaining them via other ways).

Grumpy folks with too much time here it seems.

Choler and bile are among humanity's oldest psychedelics. Venting one's spleen is how the devotees of Mithras attained the grade of Heliodromus, the penultimate stage in their seven-fold system. Maybe. Authorities differ.

 

[Mars]

Corrosive waters. If you need drugs to experience spirituality, magic, gnosis or whatever than you don't deserve it.

There are people living on the highest plane of existence. Both figuratively and literally. Buddhist monks on the tibetan plateau (elevation ~7000m). They meditate 8 days a week and 25 hours a day. They nurture themselves solely on air and sunlight performing asceticism, they dont drink alcohol, don't smoke, never tasted a woman, dont even know what a woman looks like.

Thats how pure they are. And those monks are enlightened. In a state of buddhi-yoga / bhakti-yoga (intelligent-work / transcendental-work)
So I don't need any contemporary westerner, illusioned by new age materialists like crowley, to tell me about how "enlightening" their experience was, taking impure LSD, brewed up by an polish immigrant in his garage, at a shitty music festival.

And yes, "your" drug is also shit, don't tell me how you make them yourself or how your negro dealer only "has the best". Yes your shrooms and dmt too. I heard all excuses and see all excuses. Taking corrosive waters is only a testament to your own incompetence in magic and spirituality.

Rather try staring at a candlelight for 10 minutes without thinking if you so desperately want to "alter" and "expand" your conciousness. Can you? I bet you can't. And if you did that, count all the pebble-stones in a driveway. Sure way to "dissolve" your ego.

 

[8Lou1]

mr. mars. did you know your name in sranang means shit? its a real saying jang me mars. eat my shit.
so as stated now several times this topic is about the experience not about people who dont know 1 experience about it, yelling it is wrong. figure your own topic about candle staring and monks on hills. this topic is about medicine.

thank you.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I've taken LSD a few times, but I've never felt I've needed it for magic.

In his book “Angels in Vermillion. The Philosophers’ Stone: From Dee to DMT” author P.D. Newman lays out a compelling case that among other alchemists/ mages of the past, Dee and Kelly were actually using DMT during their scrying sessions that led to the development of Enochian magic. Seems to be historical precedent for psychedelic use as a tool for magical means

This is very interesting. I didn't think that DMT (and the associated substances you need to prolong the experience) were available in Elizabethan England. However, having read a lot of Dee's diaries, it might explain why his system of angels is so geometrical

 

[ABigGoy4U]

Corrosive waters. If you need drugs to experience spirituality, magic, gnosis or whatever than you don't deserve it.

There are people living on the highest plane of existence. Both figuratively and literally. Buddhist monks on the tibetan plateau (elevation ~7000m). They meditate 8 days a week and 25 hours a day. They nurture themselves solely on air and sunlight performing asceticism, they dont drink alcohol, don't smoke, never tasted a woman, dont even know what a woman looks like.

Thats how pure they are. And those monks are enlightened. In a state of buddhi-yoga / bhakti-yoga (intelligent-work / transcendental-work)
So I don't need any contemporary westerner, illusioned by new age materialists like crowley, to tell me about how "enlightening" their experience was, taking impure LSD, brewed up by an polish immigrant in his garage, at a shitty music festival.

And yes, "your" drug is also shit, don't tell me how you make them yourself or how your negro dealer only "has the best". Yes your shrooms and dmt too. I heard all excuses and see all excuses. Taking corrosive waters is only a testament to your own incompetence in magic and spirituality.

Rather try staring at a candlelight for 10 minutes without thinking if you so desperately want to "alter" and "expand" your conciousness. Can you? I bet you can't. And if you did that, count all the pebble-stones in a driveway. Sure way to "dissolve" your ego.

I seriously doubt all those monks are 'enlightened'.

There are people living on the highest plane of existence.
they
they
they

whataboutism.
So not yourself?

illusioned by new age materialists like crowley

implying, inferring.

And yes, "your" drug is also shit, don't tell me how you make them yourself

implying, inferring.

Rather try staring at a candlelight for 10 minutes without thinking

This is not meditation. Attaining it proves nothing more than that you are so devoid of thought that you're able to do such a thing.

I was under the impression that Eliteism was expressedly against the rules. You are adding nothing more than the 'corrosive waters' that you deride.

 

[8Lou1]

i was thinking about the history of weed and how it became illegal and now more legal. it made me wonder why we say the leaves of the patato plant are poisonous, etc. in essence boiling these leaves would create a sort of absinthe. did you know btw that ayahuasca is family of the birch? right now im wondering if its an imported plant. just for the fun of living in europe with a lot of birches and lapland having moose who eat certain plants to get stoned and the lappers then drinking their pee to get stoned too. (im at war with a really stupid fake ayahuasca doctor from most prob peru)

 

[Mars]

mr. mars. did you know your name in sranang means shit? its a real saying jang me mars. eat my shit.
so as stated now several times this topic is about the experience not about people who dont know 1 experience about it, yelling it is wrong. figure your own topic about candle staring and monks on hills. this topic is about medicine.

thank you.

"Medicine"

Well my post was about experience.
About experience:

Every single person that told me about their trips it was as if I listened to a child describing its holiday with the parents in thailand, mentioning the funny people in orange and those big pointy buildings but deviating fastly to talk about the monkeys fetching figs off of trees.

I seriously doubt all those monks are 'enlightened'.


whataboutism.
So not yourself?


implying, inferring.


implying, inferring.


This is not meditation. Attaining it proves nothing more than that you are so devoid of thought that you're able to do such a thing.

I was under the impression that Eliteism was expressedly against the rules. You are adding nothing more than the 'corrosive waters' that you deride.

Unfortunate that you only see my post akin to a petty internet argument and deconstruct it as such. You would do well to meditate on what has been posted. Consider it my favour upon you.

Also rest assured I wont disturb you any further.

 

[8Lou1]

Tru, you have an experience about people who tell you about it. Thats actually called hear say. Ever sat in the same space while someone was tripping? That person is called a babysitter. This is due to tripping people having an experience of what is said in the bible: come to me as children. Plantspirits are strange in that sense, they humble you.

 

[Xenophon]

mr. mars. did you know your name in sranang means shit? its a real saying jang me mars. eat my shit.
so as stated now several times this topic is about the experience not about people who dont know 1 experience about it, yelling it is wrong. figure your own topic about candle staring and monks on hills. this topic is about medicine.

thank you.

Actually this topic is very much under debate. Mars makes a perfectly good point: satori is mebbe more than an x-static flip o' the fentanyl away. Meantimes, the McMagic Menge clamor for the enlightenment their chance birth in bipedal form apparently "entitles" them to. Sneering "eat my shit" perhaps pretty well sums up the degree of spiritual attainment the pharmaceutical crowd is capable of.

 

[ABigGoy4U]

Every single person that told me about their trips it was as if I listened to a child describing its holiday with the parents in thailand, mentioning the funny people in orange and those big pointy buildings but deviating fastly to talk about the monkeys fetching figs off of trees.

You've never talked to anyone about it. Nobody has ever told you about it in person. See how this claim is just as concrete as yours?

Unfortunate that you only see my post akin to a petty internet argument and deconstruct it as such.
Also rest assured I wont disturb you any further.

I accept your concession.

 

[8Lou1]

the discussion or war im having with so called doctors is the fact that at one point in spacetime things went wrong. one of the things going wrong was something so vile covid was nice. so either way it became a war on plants who carry medicine. it felt like humanity has been at that point before and made the right decision by calling on The Higher Ones in the universe. you know what they then do while interfering? all the newbies get to go on a trip to the gates of babylon.

 

[Xenophon]

Why is it the "Gott mit Drugs" crowd always gets so swiftly full-throttle EMO when anyone questions their dope-a-dharma? Like Hunter S. Thompson said, "You can turn your back on an enemy. Never turn your back on a drug." Eh, wot?

 

[8Lou1]

thats how we squirt. i really tried to play fireman or some thing so youd understand, but i dont do that its a past leaving and youre looking at it. when you dont react i can play it like a placenta where all the poison stays and it gets thrown in the bin. sorry cant make it clearer.

 

[ABigGoy4U]

I mean, the thread title is 'psychedelics?' not 'psychedelics!', under the category including 'Herbalism' even.
I figure that if light can be cast unto the waters, there's a good chance that certain waters can hold the light. Some might reflect it, Some may even amplify & project it.

 

[Vandheer]

And yes, "your" drug is also shit, don't tell me how you make them yourself or how your negro dealer only "has the best"

No but jokes and racism aside, I remember reading some of people who got in MKUltra attesting to this. They said no LSD they have gotten after could ever compete with whatever the government had.

 

[Signs & Sounds]

This is very interesting. I didn't think that DMT (and the associated substances you need to prolong the experience) were available in Elizabethan England.

The process for extracting DMT into a smokeable form is mind-bogglingly simple. It can be obtained from several species of Acacia and extracted with lye and a non-polar solvent in a glass vessel. Certainly all available to the sixteenth century alchemist.

And yes, "your" drug is also shit, don't tell me how you make them yoursel

I actually do extract my own “drug”

 

[Ancient]

All experience can lead to enlightenment.


If reports of funny colored men and pointy roofs were all that you heard of psychedelic experiences then it's no wonder you have relegated them to a wasteful status. You were speaking with children or liars. Full cartoon-like or lifelike hallucinations are quite rare at standard doses. Some people take psychedelics dozens of times before they experience visual effects. What could they be getting out of the experience that kept them going back to it? We know that it's not a fix - they are not narcotics.



Using drugs is not the same as needing them. Why should meditation and psychedelics be mutually exclusive? What exactly is to stop me from doing a void meditation with a candle on a Wednesday evening and taking some mushrooms and considering the psychic entanglement of our species on a Saturday? I see benefit in both approaches. Both can be tools for developing self-awareness. Both could also be used in a manner that is self-destructive. That decision is up to the user.



Purity is a definite issue with drugs, although psychedelics have a much better safety record than most. You're more likely to find an analog of LSD on your acid blotter than fentanyl. It's also quite likely to be dosed at 40-50% of the advertised strength when you buy it from an unregulated market, which is one of the reasons government organized tests seem to show such potent material; it's not a magically unique chemical, but it is isolated from contaminants quite well and the dose is accurate. To someone with a skewed reference point this can certainly seem like a different calibre of drug. It doesn't mean the chemicals you can purchase on the black market have zero psychological or spiritual value. What a foolish notion! I've got a $100 bill, so I might as well throw out all my $20's...



Keep in mind also you can take steps to mitigate the risk of consuming unknown chemicals. Basic test kits are easily available for purchase and more advanced tests can be done for a reasonable fee. Send your shit in to one of these labs and they'll check it out for you. If synthetic drugs are your dealbreaker there are plenty of natural options with a long history of use.



Psychoactive drugs are widely prevalent - caffeine, l-theanine, kava, alcohol... I often see arbitrary lines in the sand from people who do not use recreational drugs. Everybody on this planet has come into contact with a psychoactive chemical at some point. Most of the good/bad judgement comes from the social conditioning presented by our national laws. Drugs are a hot topic for this reason. Most of us were indoctrinated into abstinence as children. The education I received in grade school was often blatantly wrong, and always heavily biased. As a result of such education, many people are highly reactive to the topic and will instantly present unfiltered emotion and extremist notions. I think it is worth examining those feelings, finding their root, and determining whether those reactions still serve a purpose.



With that said, drugs are not for everyone. Psychedelics are not an exception to this rule. Sometimes when people have a mystical or life-changing experience they forget this and think that everyone must be looking for the same thing, that everyone will have the same emotional response to taking the drug. This can lead to inflated egos, a tendency to overuse, and a penchant for pushing the experience onto others. I think these types are often what first comes to mind when non-users think of drugs.





For anyone who has chosen their position and looks down on those using psychedelics as a transformative or introspective tool, I've got this for you:

Do you feel that your enlightenment is better or purer than the enlightenment of one who used psychedelic drugs as entheogens? How can one be any less at the destination when they have completed a journey?

 

[Xenophon]

All experience can lead to enlightenment.


If reports of funny colored men and pointy roofs were all that you heard of psychedelic experiences then it's no wonder you have relegated them to a wasteful status. You were speaking with children or liars. Full cartoon-like or lifelike hallucinations are quite rare at standard doses. Some people take psychedelics dozens of times before they experience visual effects. What could they be getting out of the experience that kept them going back to it? We know that it's not a fix - they are not narcotics.



Using drugs is not the same as needing them. Why should meditation and psychedelics be mutually exclusive? What exactly is to stop me from doing a void meditation with a candle on a Wednesday evening and taking some mushrooms and considering the psychic entanglement of our species on a Saturday? I see benefit in both approaches. Both can be tools for developing self-awareness. Both could also be used in a manner that is self-destructive. That decision is up to the user.



Purity is a definite issue with drugs, although psychedelics have a much better safety record than most. You're more likely to find an analog of LSD on your acid blotter than fentanyl. It's also quite likely to be dosed at 40-50% of the advertised strength when you buy it from an unregulated market, which is one of the reasons government organized tests seem to show such potent material; it's not a magically unique chemical, but it is isolated from contaminants quite well and the dose is accurate. To someone with a skewed reference point this can certainly seem like a different calibre of drug. It doesn't mean the chemicals you can purchase on the black market have zero psychological or spiritual value. What a foolish notion! I've got a $100 bill, so I might as well throw out all my $20's...



Keep in mind also you can take steps to mitigate the risk of consuming unknown chemicals. Basic test kits are easily available for purchase and more advanced tests can be done for a reasonable fee. Send your shit in to one of these labs and they'll check it out for you. If synthetic drugs are your dealbreaker there are plenty of natural options with a long history of use.



Psychoactive drugs are widely prevalent - caffeine, l-theanine, kava, alcohol... I often see arbitrary lines in the sand from people who do not use recreational drugs. Everybody on this planet has come into contact with a psychoactive chemical at some point. Most of the good/bad judgement comes from the social conditioning presented by our national laws. Drugs are a hot topic for this reason. Most of us were indoctrinated into abstinence as children. The education I received in grade school was often blatantly wrong, and always heavily biased. As a result of such education, many people are highly reactive to the topic and will instantly present unfiltered emotion and extremist notions. I think it is worth examining those feelings, finding their root, and determining whether those reactions still serve a purpose.



With that said, drugs are not for everyone. Psychedelics are not an exception to this rule. Sometimes when people have a mystical or life-changing experience they forget this and think that everyone must be looking for the same thing, that everyone will have the same emotional response to taking the drug. This can lead to inflated egos, a tendency to overuse, and a penchant for pushing the experience onto others. I think these types are often what first comes to mind when non-users think of drugs.





For anyone who has chosen their position and looks down on those using psychedelics as a transformative or introspective tool, I've got this for you:

Do you feel that your enlightenment is better or purer than the enlightenment of one who used psychedelic drugs as entheogens? How can one be any less at the destination when they have completed a journey?

"False enlightenment" is a besetting problem in a great many traditions. For every Chogyam Trungpa out there, drunk and crazy wise, there are a few score poseurs plain ol' drunk and preternaturally pretentious.