[Help] Familiars

[Sedim Haba]

For your work with Fae, I have no experience, so I can't talk about. It could be worth it to make complete new topic for that, I don't think there is yet a topic where it is discussed into its tiny fine details. I think you really can add to that, so I hope you feel welcome to do that!

I did make such a thread, it's also very informative. Not only are there different kinds of Familiars, there's different kinds of Fae!
Since they are not quite locked into genes like us 'meat-bags' (a name She calls us, in her sense of humor) they have more variety.
It's almost as if ALL the Hominids still existed, and were all intelligent, roughly the same. Imagine Neanderthals walking around in our society!

[Help] - Have you ever interacted with Fae/Jinn?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:30 PM

No I don't think so. I don't know your familiar so this is just a guess though.

I'm not exactly sure which part of my post this is referring to, I do tend to be all over the place, as you can see. The joys of Autism.

 

[Ohana]

I did make such a thread, it's also very informative. Not only are there different kinds of Familiars, there's different kinds of Fae!
Since they are not quite locked into genes like us 'meat-bags' (a name She calls us, in her sense of humor) they have more variety.
It's almost as if ALL the Hominids still existed, and were all intelligent, roughly the same. Imagine Neanderthals walking around in our society!

[Help] - Have you ever interacted with Fae/Jinn?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:30 PM

I'm not exactly sure which part of my post this is referring to, I do tend to be all over the place, as you can see. The joys of Autism.

Referring to the tail end of it when you said you think your familiar sensed it was annoying.

I don't think it is annoying more for online safety than anything else. But that is just a guess though since I don't much about familiars or your own relationship with the one you have.

I kind of just run in and learn from expierences. Luckily pretty tough mentally and a fast learner so learn not to do something. But yeah life is pain.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:55 PM

Referring to the tail end of it when you said you think your familiar sensed it was annoying.

I don't think it is annoying more for online safety than anything else. But that is just a guess though since I don't much about familiars or your own relationship with the one you have.

I kind of just run in and learn from expierences. Luckily pretty tough mentally and a fast learner so learn not to do something. But yeah life is pain.

I also take a lot of downtime for myself. But my suggestion was either keeping it more personal or saying things more generally and allegorical to protect your own personal info

 

[Keldan]

I don’t really believe spirits are limited by regional differences, because you can travel through portals in the astral. I’ve met spirits from as far as the Philippines, local spirits tied to that area, even though I don’t live anywhere near there. So if portals are in play, you can encounter familiars and other spirits from all kinds of places, and there often isn’t as much difference between them as people believe. That’s also why I said practitioners sometimes misidentify spirits as familiars when they’re actually a different type of entity. And no, I wasn’t on a Dutch forum, and I don’t identify as pagan.

I think we could talk about this forever, but it really comes down to two things: how we identify a familiar, and how we tell familiars apart from other spirits. And since our experiences are different, we may not see it the same way.

I think that, seen the locality of things in witchcraft, that there can be regional differences. I see them from the perspective of Dutch folklore and the witches we shared those experiences with, were all living in the Netherlands. To point out a fun difference between countries/regions around us: witches in parts of the Netherlands did not travel on brooms, but in sieves in folk stories. In working with familiars, there will be such differences too. The witches I have spoken with who had an object (mostly a ring) as familiar, described that it acted like a creature: it got wings when it needed to fly, it got eyes when it needed to see, it had special movements to communicate.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:34 AM

Ooh, if she’s fae, then I wouldn’t consider her a familiar, they’re completely different. Faes are humanoid in form, though they can appear as almost anything, including animals. But they’ll always go back to their real humanoid form since animals aren’t their true form. Their energy is also very distinct, so you can usually tell when it’s a fae versus a familiar horse spirit, for example. The energy is very different.

This is why I mentioned my perspective earlier because practitioners can misidentify spirits. When we say familiars, they may not be familiars at all, but a different type of spirit. A fae can have many abilities, so are familiars. I work with around 32 different fae races, and each one has their own unique energy. And you’re right, there are probably thousands upon thousands of different types of faes within the same fae race.

One point here, then I read the rest of the thread. I don't know my Familiar's True Name. We mutually agreed on this, because, well I
assume everyone knows the power in that. If I don't know her True Name, then I can't divulge it. Protects us both. I have a 'pet' name for her.

One thing I can say is she's a Fae, and they can appear as anything but are Living Beings, therefore it's always a living thing, but always a
humanoid with me. Except when she was a horse, of course. I had Animal Spirit Guide Horse, for years. Horses are used in

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I had horses as a result. Like, bought a Equine Ranch. Rescue horses and donkeys, mostly. Yes, I'm THAT Autistic that I needed that.

Wow, that was off topic, but one of her Gifts to me was that. The love of horses and the Totem animal. ( I don't have either horse ranch or totem anymore)

 

[Sedim Haba]

I don’t really believe spirits are limited by regional differences, because you can travel through portals in the astral. I’ve met spirits from as far as the Philippines, local spirits tied to that area, even though I don’t live anywhere near there. So if portals are in play, you can encounter familiars and other spirits from all kinds of places, and there often isn’t as much difference between them as people believe. That’s also why I said practitioners sometimes misidentify spirits as familiars when they’re actually a different type of entity. And no, I wasn’t on a Dutch forum, and I don’t identify as pagan.

I think we could talk about this forever, but it really comes down to two things: how we identify a familiar, and how we tell familiars apart from other spirits. And since our experiences are different, we may not see it the same way.

My experience is limited to one Fae, and whoever she introduces me to. She won't let me go into the Astral or even Lucid dreamscape without her
supervision and protection, to curate who I meet, what I see. There are reasons for this, and I'm grateful.

This all brings up an interesting point, how many different types of entities can become a familiar? Obviously ones willing, and able. But are there qualifications? Being able to communicate somehow with a human probably first, and not a given with every entity out there.

 

[Keldan]

So the fae would be more like a friend, or someone your familiar introduced you to?

There are thousands upon thousands of entities people call “familiars.” “Familiar” is really just a human term for animal or creature shaped spirits that help us. That’s it. So if a spirit appears humanoid, they’re a different kind of being and not what I’d call a familiar. If a spirit appears as an object, that’s usually just the form they’re choosing to show you, they will look completely different in their true form, so I wouldn’t automatically label them a familiar either. Creature type spirits on the other hand don’t tend to change form much. That’s part of why people started calling them familiars in the first place.

Even if you meet another entity that looks exactly like your familiar, let’s say same appearance, same form, and they can interact normally with you. That doesn’t automatically make the lookalike entity a familiar. If they don’t supervise you, protect you during travel, or help with everyday things, then they wouldn’t really fit the role.

A familiar is typically loyal, highly attentive, and acts like a “household attendant” in that sense. It’s not just a title, so there’s no such qualifications, it's more like an inherent nature. It’s in their bones to want to help others. You could have a lookalike creature spirit like your familiar who simply doesn’t care about helping you or anyone else, and even though they’re a creature being, they wouldn’t be called a familiar.

Because of that loyalty and protectiveness, I don’t believe familiars would feed on the person they’re meant to guard and support. That’s just not what familiars do. But other entities can take on a creature form and pretend to be a familiar in order to feed on someone and do so easily. That’s where stories about “bad familiars” come from too, of spirits that do harmful things or feed on people. Personally, I wouldn’t consider those familiars at all.

A familiar is just a label. I’m sharing my perspective, not trying to argue with AlfrunGrima or anyone else. Personally, I try to identify the beings I work with, because there’s a lot of interesting information about who they are and what they are, and it’s genuinely cool to learn. If we misidentify a spirit and just put them all in the “familiar” box, we might miss the chance to understand them better.

My experience is limited to one Fae, and whoever she introduces me to. She won't let me go into the Astral or even Lucid dreamscape without her
supervision and protection, to curate who I meet, what I see. There are reasons for this, and I'm grateful.

This all brings up an interesting point, how many different types of entities can become a familiar? Obviously ones willing, and able. But are there qualifications? Being able to communicate somehow with a human probably first, and not a given with every entity out there.

 

[Firetree]

I have now read the post, and such is exactly why I made this thread, and no, I don't mean to pry, I completely understand it's personal.

One point here, then I read the rest of the thread. I don't know my Familiar's True Name. We mutually agreed on this, because, well I
assume everyone knows the power in that. If I don't know her True Name, then I can't divulge it. Protects us both. I have a 'pet' name for her.

One thing I can say is she's a Fae, and they can appear as anything but are Living Beings, therefore it's always a living thing, but always a
humanoid with me. Except when she was a horse, of course. I had Animal Spirit Guide Horse, for years. Horses are used in

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I had horses as a result. Like, bought a Equine Ranch. Rescue horses and donkeys, mostly. Yes, I'm THAT Autistic that I needed that.

Wow, that was off topic, but one of her Gifts to me was that. The love of horses and the Totem animal. ....

Note the bits I highlighted ^ . I wanted to open this discussion , but not veer off topic . That is difficult as I note varied opinions in what a 'familiar' is . There are also other types or classes of ..... errrmm 'entities that associate with us ' and there seem cross overs .

For me , a familiar is an animal pet ( domestic, or rarely, feral * ) that you are in a 'magical relationship / work ' with ( that's as simple as I can write it ) .

The fae seem half way beings and interact with us sometimes physically and some times 'energetically ' . They seem certainly connected to place , including local and general ( a larger ecological niche ) . I have some connection to them via my part European ancestry and other people that carry their energy, knowledge , and in some cases .... effects ** . But my local environment here in Australia and traditions I am connected to, and being variant due to locality ( ;ground energy ' ) from Europe - they are and it is very different . So I won't go there here .

The animal spirit guide ? That's another thing isn't it ? I have a few and I am right into that . In a way it seems somehow related to the Familiar but I see more differences than similarities . I notice that some, that have these relationships also refer to them as ...

The totem animal . Different again , although the common understanding of it seems to be morphing into combinations of the above . It is something different again and , at least here in this land , is deeply connected to a range of things , including environmental management , moiety marriage rights , etc . So again, not related to a familiar . Curiously , in researching the local traditions I have found no evidence of indigenous magicians ( Kadaitcha ) having ' familiar animal ' relationships - although they hold totems .


* feral pet ; a native animal that interacts and visits you but comes and goes as it pleases eg. I have a ring-tail possum , sleeping on a shelf over my bed on top of the wall ( and about 4 others in various places ) . Birds that sometimes come in for a visit , large lizards that live inside .

** Positive ; Irish Witch I got very good friends with and worked some Wicca with . Negative ; I got assaulted by a 'changeling' once ... definitely a changeling , without a doubt !

 

[AlfrunGrima]

and not what I’d call a familiar.

That's the key here, let's agree to disagree. Me and other witches call them familiar and you don't. I don't see value at this moment to discuss that further in details. We both have different experiences in it and that's it. Experience is valide because experience is always valide. It is up to the practitioner to build their own relationship with the spirit/familiar and how to perceive them, always. You have your tradition and we had our view and way of seeing things. No right and no wrong.

Because of that loyalty and protectiveness, I don’t believe

And here the same, you don't believe. Me and others experienced otherwise and had good discussions about that. Even to give attention and having a good relationship with a spirit, is a form of feeding. Most occultists recognize that very basic principle....... we have both other views and that is what it is. Not more, not less. So here I agree to disgree again and won't talk any further, because when there is believe on the one side and experience on the other there is no such a thing of a yes or no.

To the others in the thread:
for those who like to know more on the historical side of things, the Wikipedia is a good starting-point, it is quite clear which historians are involved with studying it. It is worth while to read those authors, there is a bookshare of Emma Wilby's books. (thanks to @Rowena ) In the wiki the fae as familiar is mentioned here also @Sedim Haba so that could interest you. The familiar as ring/object, the familiar as demon, the tradition of feeding are also mentioned here:

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I shared what me and a bunch of other people experienced with familiars, if people want to know more about that I am open. Feel free to ask. For the rest I leave the discussion for what it is. I am not here to classify and I am not to here to put what is right or what is wrong.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:24 PM

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Found it.....

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:40 PM

As for the historical perspective on the feeding thing I described, start reading on page 107, ........ (But much better, read the whole book, it is highly interesting) Down here an interesting quote, but there is more written about. Most of time, it is food in my praxis too. Think of fresh Milk, homemade jam. or even soup.

"Despite the sensationalism of promising the soul, renouncing Christianity and sucking blood, the most common payment given to the English witch's animal familiar (often in conjunction with payment in blood) was ordinary food. Sometimes these familiars demanded what could be seen as some sort of sacrifice, such as a live chicken, however on a daily basis they generally required nothing more than a bowl of bread, milk, ale, water and so on. This tradition is particularly evident in trial records from Essex" Emma Wilby

I have to search a little bit in which book historian Owen Davies wrote about Familiars. (I read more books written by Davies and can't recall it anymore)

 

[Keldan]

For me , a familiar is an animal pet ( domestic, or rarely, feral * ) that you are in a 'magical relationship / work ' with ( that's as simple as I can write it ) .

The fae seem half way beings and interact with us sometimes physically and some times 'energetically ' . They seem certainly connected to place , including local and general ( a larger ecological niche ) . I have some connection to them via my part European ancestry and other people that carry their energy, knowledge , and in some cases .... effects ** . But my local environment here in Australia and traditions I am connected to, and being variant due to locality ( ;ground energy ' ) from Europe - they are and it is very different . So I won't go there here .

The animal spirit guide ? That's another thing isn't it ? I have a few and I am right into that . In a way it seems somehow related to the Familiar but I see more differences than similarities . I notice that some, that have these relationships also refer to them as ...

The totem animal . Different again , although the common understanding of it seems to be morphing into combinations of the above . It is something different again and , at least here in this land , is deeply connected to a range of things , including environmental management , moiety marriage rights , etc . So again, not related to a familiar . Curiously , in researching the local traditions I have found no evidence of indigenous magicians ( Kadaitcha ) having ' familiar animal ' relationships - although they hold totems .

We’re aligned in seeing a familiar as an animal spirit someone works with. And I agree that animal spirit guides, totem animals, and familiars are three different things. Common understanding tends to blur them together.

I also work with faes, and in my experience they do connect to a place or local area. They have villages or communities of just faes too, that they don’t tend to introduce you to one. At the same time, many faes travel, so they’re not always rooted in one location. I’ve noticed that local faes often hold more traditions than regular spirits, while traveling faes tend to be more open and over time carry fewer traditions. Personally, I find it easier to work with faes who travel.

As far as I know, indigenous practitioners are diverse and many of the beings they work with are tied to lineage, clan, or territory. So depending on the tradition, someone might work with totem animals, or animal spirit guides, or familiars, or a blend of more than one. In a specific indigenous tradition, they will follow that tradition’s teachings, protocols, and rules. If you can find a community knowledge keeper within your local tradition, you can learn more from them.

I also think that as practices are passed down through generations, newer generations of indigenous practitioners can be more open to working with beings beyond what their predecessors worked with, even if that isn’t widely recorded or spoken about within the community. Though for obvious reasons it can also be seen as breaking protocol. So even if there aren’t any records, you wouldn’t know whether they worked with familiars or not.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:43 PM

I’m pretty sure you’re the one who kept pinging me about our different experiences. What I said was in response to what Sedim Haba asked. I also find it not cool that you quoted one specific part of a sentence without the full quote or any context and then used that to drive the discussion.

I never said your experiences were wrong, and I didn’t invalidate them, so I’m not sure why you came at me this way. I was explaining to Sedim Haba about my perspective. I simply stated my belief (which I have every right to do) and it’s based on my own experience, just like yours is. Our experiences can be different, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Even though your experience and mine are very different, what I’ve experienced matches what Yazata and Firetree have shared. So the three of us are actually aligned in how we view familiars and in the kinds of experiences we’ve had.

I’ve met far too many familiars and I work with different types of spirits, so when I share what I said above, it’s because I want people to identify the spirits they work with instead of putting everything into one catch all box labeled “familiar.” I believe you missed my point completely and got tunnel vision on the differences between your experience and mine.

And here the same, you don't believe. Me and others experienced otherwise and had good discussions about that. Even to give attention and having a good relationship with a spirit, is a form of feeding. Most occultists recognize that very basic principle....... we have both other views and that is what it is. Not more, not less. So here I agree to disgree again and won't talk any further, because when there is believe on the one side and experience on the other there is no such a thing of a yes or no.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

At the same time, many faes travel, so they’re not always rooted in one location. I’ve noticed that local faes often hold more traditions than regular spirits, while traveling faes tend to be more open and over time carry fewer traditions. Personally, I find it easier to work with faes who travel.

On what kind of traditions do fae hold on? Are there seasons in which they travel more? And they open about the reasons they travel?

 

[Sedim Haba]

So the fae would be more like a friend, or someone your familiar introduced you to?

Someone she introduces me to. Now, I can talk to her at any time, if I calm my mind, maybe meditate a bit, with a candle if I need it.

Other Fae or Entities, that requires a deeper connection, which only happens once a week. ( I can't divulge why or how )

Sometimes it's a Fae who just wants to meet a human, and so she thinks it's good for us both. Sometimes it's a Fae who knows something she doesn't, and is willing to teach me.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:36 PM

Note the bits I highlighted ^ . I wanted to open this discussion , but not veer off topic . That is difficult as I note varied opinions in what a 'familiar' is . There are also other types or classes of ..... errrmm 'entities that associate with us ' and there seem cross overs .

Yes, an Animal Spirit Guide or Totem is NOT a familiar, the communication is one-way from them to you, and when they teach you what they
needed to, they can leave. Or stay it depends on the relationship.

How did I get mine? I didn't call Horse, or any other seeking I think my Familiar actually arranged that, just like the 'visits' I describe above.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:48 PM

As for the historical perspective on the feeding thing I described, start reading on page 107, ........ (But much better, read the whole book, it is highly interesting) Down here an interesting quote, but there is more written about. Most of time, it is food in my praxis too. Think of fresh Milk, homemade jam. or even soup.

"Despite the sensationalism of promising the soul, renouncing Christianity and sucking blood, the most common payment given to the English witch's animal familiar (often in conjunction with payment in blood) was ordinary food. Sometimes these familiars demanded what could be seen as some sort of sacrifice, such as a live chicken, however on a daily basis they generally required nothing more than a bowl of bread, milk, ale, water and so on. This tradition is particularly evident in trial records from Essex" Emma Wilby

I have to search a little bit in which book historian Owen Davies wrote about Familiars. (I read more books written by Davies and can't recall it anymore)

Interestingly, you can 'feed' Fae, and not just a Familiar one, by offerings of HOT (steaming hot) drink.
All kinds of drink, from coffee to hot chocolate. Where to offer is more complex, but just making a
second cup of whatever hot beverage you enjoy, is a low-effort feeding.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:53 PM

Just want to say, it's all a good read on this thread, and while the interpretation of terminology causes confusion, there is no manual on all this stuff.
It's of the Spirit, and we all relate to and interact differently to beings that are NOT human, and therefore naturally difficult to understand, fully.

 

[Keldan]

Yes, an Animal Spirit Guide or Totem is NOT a familiar, the communication is one-way from them to you, and when they teach you what they
needed to, they can leave. Or stay it depends on the relationship.

How did I get mine? I didn't call Horse, or any other seeking I think my Familiar actually arranged that, just like the 'visits' I describe above.

Actually the communication can be two way as well, if you’re open to it. They can also stay around you most of the time, even if it isn’t part of a deeper bond or relationship or anything. I also think your familiar may have arranged those visits from the spirit guides for you, which is really cool.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Actually the communication can be two way as well, if you’re open to it. They can also stay around you most of the time, even if it isn’t part of a deeper bond or relationship or anything. I also think your familiar may have arranged those visits from the spirit guides for you, which is really cool.

I did interact a LOT oh boy, a LOT with living horses, under the tutelage of Horse. It was 2-way with them, never thought to dialog with Horse.

 

[Keldan]

On what kind of traditions do fae hold on? Are there seasons in which they travel more? And they open about the reasons they travel?

I can’t really divulge. Once you work with faes, you get to know them firsthand. They’re just wired very differently. I know I’ve accidentally crossed boundaries with a few of them without realizing it, and I only understood what happened after they taught me.

And no, there isn’t a particular season when they travel more. The ones who travel tend to do so all the time, and you can run into them almost anywhere. Even faes that aren’t rooted in a place like the Netherlands can still show up where you are. Their reason for traveling is to gain more knowledge.

On the other hand, there are local faes. There are probably plenty where you are, but I call them local because they typically don’t travel at all and mostly stay where they’re from.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Interestingly, you can 'feed' Fae, and not just a Familiar one, by offerings of HOT (steaming hot) drink.

Interesting local lore here is that you can offer the fae milk, but in the local story of a giant you need to bring the giant not only milk, but bread also because he is a giant and needs more to live on.

(But that is a sidestep on the topic)

 

[Firetree]

We’re aligned in seeing a familiar as an animal spirit someone works with. And I agree that animal spirit guides, totem animals, and familiars are three different things. Common understanding tends to blur them together.

I also work with faes, and in my experience they do connect to a place or local area. They have villages or communities of just faes too, that they don’t tend to introduce you to one. At the same time, many faes travel, so they’re not always rooted in one location. I’ve noticed that local faes often hold more traditions than regular spirits, while traveling faes tend to be more open and over time carry fewer traditions. Personally, I find it easier to work with faes who travel.

As far as I know, indigenous practitioners are diverse and many of the beings they work with are tied to lineage, clan, or territory.

Yes, same here - all three actually .

So depending on the tradition, someone might work with totem animals, or animal spirit guides, or familiars, or a blend of more than one. In a specific indigenous tradition, they will follow that tradition’s teachings, protocols, and rules. If you can find a community knowledge keeper within your local tradition, you can learn more from them.

I have two ; one is neighboring Bundjalung ( see my intro ) the other is Gumbaynggirr ( where I live , but sadly most deep connections here were with the 'older elders' who have now passed on )

I also think that as practices are passed down through generations, newer generations of indigenous practitioners can be more open to working with beings beyond what their predecessors worked with, even if that isn’t widely recorded or spoken about within the community. Though for obvious reasons it can also be seen as breaking protocol. So even if there aren’t any records, you wouldn’t know whether they worked with familiars or not.

My experience is not going on 'records' alone . I understand that these are things you think , but it is not evident here ( and I am only writing about my experience here in Australia . It need not be spoken about .... any such familiar animal would be seen by others .

Aboriginals, traditionally, never even had pets ( aside from Dingo, but that was a later adoption ) ... there is a practice of caring for an abandoned or injured baby animal and nursing it to a stage of being able to release it ( other animals do this too ) but they never had 'companion animals' aside from dingo ... and that was after 10s of 1000s of years after arrival .

 

[Ohana]

Actually the communication can be two way as well, if you’re open to it. They can also stay around you most of the time, even if it isn’t part of a deeper bond or relationship or anything. I also think your familiar may have arranged those visits from the spirit guides for you, which is really cool.

Wait that kind of sounds like the story A Christmas Carol. Did Scrooge have a Familiar in the story? The familiar could have arranged all those visits with the spirits.

That kind of cool. In my interpetation of the story now Scrooge could have a familiar unbeknownst to him. Thats kind of cool to me.

 

[Keldan]

My experience is not going on 'records' alone . I understand that these are things you think , but it is not evident here ( and I am only writing about my experience here in Australia . It need not be spoken about .... any such familiar animal would be seen by others .

When I said “I think,” it’s what I believe in, I just treat it in a nostalgia sense like “thinking about it.” If you ever have the chance on your spiritual travels to encounter any indigenous elders as in seeing their spirits, they may be able to speak to what evidence exists and whether they work with any of the three, or a combination. This will vary from tradition to tradition, and even from one elder to another.

Even if something isn’t reflected in written records, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t practiced. Many do work with beings that aren’t documented, so I treat this as UPG (unverified personal gnosis). I just wanted to put it out there, because if anyone is genuinely interested, they could ask their elders or community knowledge keepers directly. Well, or happen to meet elders on your spiritual travels.

 

[Firetree]

When I said “I think,” it’s what I believe in, I just treat it in a nostalgia sense like “thinking about it.” If you ever have the chance on your spiritual travels to encounter any indigenous elders as in seeing their spirits, they may be able to speak to what evidence exists and whether they work with any of the three, or a combination.

I have had the chance and that is what I was basing my comments on regarding my 'experience' .

This will vary from tradition to tradition, and even from one elder to another.

Of course . By the way, I have encountered what you are saying but only on the case of 'intrusions' or 'adoption' of variant culture ... in recent times . Take the example of my teacher , who full well understands his totem and his 'power spirits' but also 'gets into' spirit animal stuff' as an adoption of ( some new age ? ) Amerindian stuff . Its not traditional .

Even if something isn’t reflected in written records, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t practiced. Many do work with beings that aren’t documented, so I treat this as UPG (unverified personal gnosis).

'UPG' reminds me of 'UAP' . - we are certain it's there , but we are not sure where it came from .

I just wanted to put it out there, because if anyone is genuinely interested, they could ask their elders or community knowledge keepers directly. Well, or happen to meet elders on your spiritual travels.

I am sure under those circumstances you might find it . The indigenous beliefs here have been polluted by all types of New Age garbage that the unscrupulous non indigenous have convinced them off . I had contact with an indigenous group in Queensland that were into and believed that 'Aussie hieroglyph' / ancient Egyptian BS . A lot of that is around ; Australian Aboriginal tarot ? yep . Some Japanese tourists that came here produced it . Some indigenous use that even !

But I am talking 'traditional stuff' ( and I been studying it for over 40 years ) .

 

[Ohana]

I have had the chance and that is what I was basing my comments on regarding my 'experience' .



Of course . By the way, I have encountered what you are saying but only on the case of 'intrusions' or 'adoption' of variant culture ... in recent times . Take the example of my teacher , who full well understands his totem and his 'power spirits' but also 'gets into' spirit animal stuff' as an adoption of ( some new age ? ) Amerindian stuff . Its not traditional .




'UPG' reminds me of 'UAP' . - we are certain it's there , but we are not sure where it came from .


I am sure under those circumstances you might find it . The indigenous beliefs here have been polluted by all types of New Age garbage that the unscrupulous non indigenous have convinced them off . I had contact with an indigenous group in Queensland that were into and believed that 'Aussie hieroglyph' / ancient Egyptian BS . A lot of that is around ; Australian Aboriginal tarot ? yep . Some Japanese tourists that came here produced it . Some indigenous use that even !

But I am talking 'traditional stuff' ( and I been studying it for over 40 years ) .

I get if you don't like new age practices and maybe they aren't great. I don't know what they fully entail but I can guess as to why they were made in the first place and why some indigenous people practice them.

They were robbed of their culture. The culture that remains is but a fragment due to the brutal conquer of land. The new age practices is to fill in those gaps probably. They may not be right but some might not have acess to everything. They may be torn away from everything.

I understand because I was also torn away from family due to life circumstances. There is no guide book for me. I have no one to ask about anything. Its like I have no roots. But I did. They just aren't here anymore to ask so I just have to guess and sometimes the guesses are wrong.

New age and guessing might be all I have to work with and maybe some stories but thats it.

I get if you don't like because maybe some of the practices are just bad or lies or something. But theres a reason why some choose to adopt it and I thought I might share the reason. Its not a fun one.

 

[Keldan]

Wait that kind of sounds like the story A Christmas Carol. Did Scrooge have a Familiar in the story? The familiar could have arranged all those visits with the spirits.

That kind of cool. In my interpetation of the story now Scrooge could have a familiar unbeknownst to him. Thats kind of cool to me.

Yeah, not just with familiars. Early on in my journey, some spirits introduced me to other beings they already knew. Honestly, that was really helpful. Because they were cherry picking so I could trust the beings, the connections and not worry as much while I was still new.