Immortality through creating energetic body

[sahgwa]

Im saying as a cult leader Castenada set up certain expectations in his cult followers. Some of them killed themselves after their disappointment and shock in what they considered his early demise.

I agree that's stupid, but you seem to be saying that "his path is dead if you are interested in 'immortality'" which once again intimates that you have some secret of immortality, so I ask again,
Are you saying that your magick will cure cancer if you get it?
And are you personally talking about physical immortality, or perceptive, remembering immortality of the soul and personality?

 

[Durward]

I have said it often on this forum, but there can be plenty of human beings that do have useful teachings, even if their personal lives are not perfect.
Plagiarised or not, a lot of the basic work with dream work, shadow selves, energy, and the like, do bear fruit. Especially recapitulation.
I do think Tensegrity is a load of BS though.
I thought we were mature enough to quit conflating the person with the ideas.
This is akin to the overly political freaks who can't listen to a band because XYZ politics in their minds. Art for art's sake in both cases.

I believe the Castaneda book series is certainly worth reading, and quite interesting. I read them over and over for many years, made notes, studied, and then moved on after I was satisfied.
I have also read many of the books written by Atkinson, which many people here have likely read and studied without knowing they are written by Atkinson. Most of them do contain worthwhile materials, fake poser plagiarist or not.

Some of the names Atkinson used...

• Yogi Ramacharaka: Perhaps his most famous persona, Atkinson used this name from 1903 onwards to write more than a dozen books popularizing Yoga and Hinduism in America, such as Advanced Course in Yoga Philosophy and Oriental Occultism.
• Theron Q. Dumont: Presented as a French expert on personal magnetism, this persona was used for books focused on willpower, memory training, and self-confidence, including The Art and Science of Personal Magnetism and The Power of Concentration.
• Swami Bhakta Vishita: Used for books focused on clairvoyance, mediumship, and the afterlife, such as The Development of Seership. This persona was highly popular and eventually outsold the Ramacharaka books.
• Swami Panchadasi: Another Indian persona, used for works on clairvoyance and occult powers, such as Clairvoyance and Occult Powers.
• Magus Incognito: Used for the work The Secret Doctrines of the Rosicrucians.
• Three Initiates: Atkinson is widely believed to be the author (or one of the authors) of The Kybalion (1908), a seminal text in modern Hermeticism.
• Edward Beals: It is believed that Atkinson used this name in collaboration with, or as a pseudonym for, the "Personal Power Books" series.
• Theodore Sheldon: While some sources attribute Vim Culture to him, some evidence suggests this may have been a real person.
• Other Potential Aliases: Due to his involvement with the Yogi Publication Society and Advanced Thought Publishing, it is suspected that other authors, such as "Dr. Franklin L. Dubois" and "O. Hashnu Hara," may have been pseudonyms for Atkinson.

 

[sahgwa]

I believe the Castaneda book series is certainly worth reading, and quite interesting. I read them over and over for many years, made notes, studied, and then moved on after I was satisfied.
I have also read many of the books written by Atkinson, which many people here have likely read and studied without knowing they are written by Atkinson. Most of them do contain worthwhile materials, fake poser plagiarist or not.

Some of the names Atkinson used...

Thank you for the intel, and also for not posting in a confrontational and egotistical manner for no reason; a little decorum goes a long way.

 

[Kepler]

["Hylozoism is the philosophical doctrine according to which all matter is alive or animated, either in itself or as participating in the action of a superior principle, usually the world-soul (anima mundi)."]

Would you consider many teachings of a Higher Self, or a Holy Guardian Angel, as pointing to those as being these 'hyperdimensional beings' you speak of ?
It would make sense to me.

Yup. The HGA in my model is a hyperphysical companion. An intermediary during Knowledge and Conversation concurrent to the Beatific Vision.

You mention 'conscious dissolution of the soul' but what about 'conscious fostering of PERCEPTIVE/Intelligent/personal immortality?' we all know the soul is immortal (mostly) but what about the opposite of this possible dissolution?

Absolutely that is part of conscious changes too.

 

[sahgwa]

Yup. The HGA in my model is a hyperphysical companion. An intermediary during Knowledge and Conversation concurrent to the Beatific Vision.


Absolutely that is part of conscious changes too.

This all makes not just logical but Natural sense too.
I think if we study all religions and systems of magick in a syncretic way, we can take a lot of commonalities as being at least the kernel of the Truth.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I agree that's stupid, but you seem to be saying that "his path is dead if you are interested in 'immortality'" which once again intimates that you have some secret of immortality, so I ask again,

I said his path is dead for those interested in immortality (endless existence after death) because 1)He perpetuated fraud in multiple ways 2)He instituted a cult with the results I summarized 3)His recapitulation practices are very weak, because if you truly reclaim energy, your aging slows

 

[sahgwa]

I said his path is dead for those interested in immortality (endless existence after death) because 1)He perpetuated fraud in multiple ways 2)He instituted a cult with the results I summarized 3)His recapitulation practices are very weak, because if you truly reclaim energy, your aging slows

Ok , thank you for summing up your previous responses; are you able or willing to answer these questions?

Are you saying that your magick will cure cancer if you get it?
And are you personally talking about physical immortality, or perceptive, remembering immortality of the soul and personality? - You seem to have partially answered this by saying 'endless existence after death' but not fully. I am noticing perhaps a pattern , of hinting at superior knowledge but never actually 'spilling the beans,' similar to your mentions of 'having the secret of the true soul/energy work' in the Thelema thread.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Durward]

Thank you for the intel, and also for not posting in a confrontational and egotistical manner for no reason; a little decorum goes a long way.

We are all on pathways, some similar, some different. Fighting over that makes little sense to me because the secrets of person A may not apply to person B, and the pathway of B is likely different than A as well. Part of everything about our form of study is figuring out your own path and what applies, and what you can or can't do, skill sets, configurations, etc. My way or the highway makes me smile, I know better.
I will likely repeat 'individual configurations' or 'energetic clarity' quite often. I see things while wandering around in dreams, my dreams and in other people's dreams. People scoff and say it is impossible, but I don't really care because I do it, people confirm that I was there in their dream, and that what I'm saying actually happened. So, they can scoff all they want, or disbelieve, it doesn't change anything.
My question for people is usually, what success do you have, or what has worked for you?
I always have to think of Bennett Mayrick, a rather rough representative of Psi talent. You would never know he was talented by his appearance, or the number of cigarettes he smoked, or his foul mouth and his work clothes. He just could do things, but had no clue why. When you dig around, you find out that the Bengston Healing method came from his ideas, not Prof. Bengston.
So, I keep my mind open and let people figure things out for themselves when possible. Everything I write is opinion or suggestion, and I try to focus on staying helpful and not argumentative. Facts are facts, most of the time.
Where there is animosity, there is usually failure and frustration. Differences in opinion here are likely often just different approaches or methods, and the measure should be individual success, not my way or the highway.
Some areas, like immortality, are tough. Mainly because nobody immortal is there to help or explain anything, so as far as facts go, there is nothing there, no facts, no real anything about it. Maybe one day, someone will prove that wrong?

 

[Beyond Everything]

I am noticing perhaps a pattern , of hinting at superior knowledge but never actually 'spilling the beans,

Just assume I don't know anything and I haven't attained anything. That way you can just dismiss my words.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:51 PM

Where there is animosity,

They're all just words on a screen. Best not to get too attached.

 

[sahgwa]

We are all on pathways, some similar, some different. Fighting over that makes little sense to me because the secrets of person A may not apply to person B, and the pathway of B is likely different than A as well. Part of everything about our form of study is figuring out your own path and what applies, and what you can or can't do, skill sets, configurations, etc. My way or the highway makes me smile, I know better.
I will likely repeat 'individual configurations' or 'energetic clarity' quite often. I see things while wandering around in dreams, my dreams and in other people's dreams. People scoff and say it is impossible, but I don't really care because I do it, people confirm that I was there in their dream, and that what I'm saying actually happened. So, they can scoff all they want, or disbelieve, it doesn't change anything.
My question for people is usually, what success do you have, or what has worked for you?
I always have to think of Bennett Mayrick, a rather rough representative of Psi talent. You would never know he was talented by his appearance, or the number of cigarettes he smoked, or his foul mouth and his work clothes. He just could do things, but had no clue why. When you dig around, you find out that the Bengston Healing method came from his ideas, not Prof. Bengston.
So, I keep my mind open and let people figure things out for themselves when possible. Everything I write is opinion or suggestion, and I try to focus on staying helpful and not argumentative. Facts are facts, most of the time.
Where there is animosity, there is usually failure and frustration. Differences in opinion here are likely often just different approaches or methods, and the measure should be individual success, not my way or the highway.
Some areas, like immortality, are tough. Mainly because nobody immortal is there to help or explain anything, so as far as facts go, there is nothing there, no facts, no real anything about it. Maybe one day, someone will prove that wrong?

EXACTLY
We all have our own bodies and personal energy. thats what i meant when i said ' It doesn't mean your magick doesn't bear personal fruit or help some others.'

I think we all start with results based mundane magick, (me 14 to 15 years ago), i got an honourable discharge out of the Army, and found a lovely wife, among other things, using magick. (egregore and Sparean sigil magick, respectively mixed with Thelemic basics) for example. Then a career I am still in now 12 years later.
But we all eventually strive for the 'real' stuff, the inner and Higher selves.

The immortality thing is a whole other kettle of fish, cuz like you said 'who can prove it'? So posters claiming 'this system is wrong' or 'my version is what works' is a bit strange.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:56 PM

Just assume I don't know anything and I haven't attained anything. That way you can just dismiss my words.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:51 PM

Where's the fun in that?!
And you still refuse to answer direct questions, which is strange.

 

[Beyond Everything]

And you still refuse to answer direct questions, which is strange.

I haven't had cancer, so I'm not sure. I have healed myself of other things though. It was Castenada's followers who were shocked he got cancer, though, since he had been feeding them various bs.

As far as Immortality, I've consistently talked about the transmutation into a higher energy body which grants endless existence after death. Physical immortality I can't speak to, but I can speak to slowing aging from one's practices.

 

[sahgwa]

I haven't had cancer, so I'm not sure. I have healed myself of other things though. It was Castenada's followers who were shocked he got cancer, though, since he had been feeding them various bs.

As far as Immortality, I've consistently talked about the transmutation into a higher energy body which grants endless existence after death. Physical immortality I can't speak to, but I can speak to slowing aging from one's practices.

Yes you have spoken 'to it' but not 'about it'
You seem unwilling or unable to attempt to describe in practical detail how your practises work while others fail?
It's much easier for you to tear down other systems than to explain your own in more than vague terms.
And yes I will give you the benefit of the doubt that true gnosis can not really be explained in words, but you can at least make a more sportsmanlike attempt.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Yes you have spoken 'to it' but not 'about it'
You seem unwilling or unable to attempt to describe in practical detail how your practises work while others fail?

I do allude to some things in the thread about Bardon's kabbalah but I'm not here to become someone's teacher, the occult is entirely up to the individual. I don't know why you believe immortality would be a simple, step-by-step path that you can learn from some book or order.

 

[sahgwa]

lol he made shit up. The Yaqui don't even use Peyote. Don Juan was imaginary. You do realize there are people who make it their life's work to look into such things?

He lifted shit from various sources (like a tai chi teacher) and (creatively) fused it into a package to sell to the public. His cultish followers were shocked when he was diagnosed with Cancer and then some of them even killed themselves.

It's a dead path if one is interested in immortality.

In my interest of calling out BS:

Turns out Castaneda is not the only source for the Yaqui using Peyote, also public research groups and conservation groups recognise the use of peyote amongst the yaqui in history:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

'The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

wants to raise $20 million to support traditional medicine use around the world. For example, it would help the Yaqui Tribe in Mexico re-establish their traditional use of peyote, ayahuasca and toad. Some tribal members struggling with alcohol and suicide think traditional medicines might be helpful.'

So you are wrong there.

Also,
This is just for fun for everyone, I found this page and also wikipedia mentions most of the drugs used in the book were Jimson Weed/ Datura and also powder of psilocybin . Peyote is not mentioned quite as much in the first book:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[dont you miss the old web?]

When it comes to the use of drugs and hallucinogens most people associate Carlos Castaneda with Peyote. However, it wasn't Peyote but actually the plant

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

--- known throughout the desert southwest as jimsonweed --- that played the primary role in his early experiences into other realities --- including, it must be said, his most famous and most oft cited experience where he turned into a crow and flew.


I also recall in the books, that Peyote is Carlos' 'ally' while the 'little smoke' (psilocybin powder) is Don Juan's 'ally' .

So there are other sources besides his 'fictional' books

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:17 PM

I do allude to some things in the thread about Bardon's kabbalah but I'm not here to become someone's teacher, the occult is entirely up to the individual. I don't know why you believe immortality would be a simple, step-by-step path that you can learn from some book or order.

You are putting words in my mouth, I am just trying to see if your negative and condescending attituded (which betrays lack of progress on the Path, in my opinion) has any meat to back it up or justify it. Call it a simple curiosity and basic search and hunger for knowledge from all sources.

 

[Durward]

As far as Immortality, I've consistently talked about the transmutation into a higher energy body which grants endless existence after death. Physical immortality I can't speak to, but I can speak to slowing aging from one's practices.

What I find interesting about this concept, is that I know my 'other' doesn't share as much as I wish or hope with the physical and mental me. I get to go along for the dream rides, but I'm rarely actually in charge, and we don't share a lot of goals or intentions. For me, becoming one with my other self (likely more than just one of these depending on plenty of things), was and is a goal, and I think part of that 'transmutation' is simply me becoming more like them, and less of the jumble of memories and neural networks that are my solid physical self. So perhaps a blend or mash up? In any case, we (dreamwalking me and waking me) obviously don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. It would be nice to be able to be in full control and the leader, but also dangerous because I am human. Being trapped as an awareness bubble in a being I can't control would likely be an interesting prison if it was forever. That alone could be a reason to be reborn. I'm pretty sure the reason for my physical existence is the food, intimacy, smells and other sensations that are very unique to being physical. I feel like I missed these things enough to return and face the pains and sufferings of life, and ultimately death, again. So, I do believe I am already immortal in that sense, where 'WE' come back because it can get very boring and sterile over there. We love living in physical bodies, and most people forget because the body and mind makes them so different from what actually lives on, and because we are not just one being with one mind and one set of memories. We are likely the many that we have been before, or lived before, lumped together and sharing, but individuals as well.
So, for me, that energy body already exists, and will always be there, and is a combination of many visits.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:27 PM

In my interest of calling out BS:

Turns out Castaneda is not the only source for the Yaqui using Peyote, also public research groups and conservation groups recognise the use of peyote amongst the yaqui in history:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

'The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

wants to raise $20 million to support traditional medicine use around the world. For example, it would help the Yaqui Tribe in Mexico re-establish their traditional use of peyote, ayahuasca and toad. Some tribal members struggling with alcohol and suicide think traditional medicines might be helpful.'

So you are wrong there.

Also,
This is just for fun for everyone, I found this page and also wikipedia mentions most of the drugs used in the book were Jimson Weed/ Datura and also powder of psilocybin . Peyote is not mentioned quite as much in the first book:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[dont you miss the old web?]

When it comes to the use of drugs and hallucinogens most people associate Carlos Castaneda with Peyote. However, it wasn't Peyote but actually the plant

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

--- known throughout the desert southwest as jimsonweed --- that played the primary role in his early experiences into other realities --- including, it must be said, his most famous and most oft cited experience where he turned into a crow and flew.


I also recall in the books, that Peyote is Carlos' 'ally' while the 'little smoke' (psilocybin powder) is Don Juan's 'ally' .

So there are other sources besides his 'fictional' books

Post automatically merged: Friday at 11:17 PM

You are putting words in my mouth, I am just trying to see if your negative and condescending attituded (which betrays lack of progress on the Path, in my opinion) has any meat to back it up or justify it. Call it a simple curiosity and basic search and hunger for knowledge from all sources.

If Castaneda did use Datura, it is no wonder he got liver cancer. That stuff can be very toxic.

 

[Beyond Everything]

There are entire books (written by anthropologists) detailing Castenada's fraud, ie

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I Call it a simple curiosity and basic search and hunger for knowledge from all sources.

Well, I alluded to a great occult secret in relation to recapitulation and it went whooooosh

You're hung up on your emotional reaction to words on a screen, though.

 

[sahgwa]

There are entire books (written by anthropologists) detailing Castenada's fraud, ie

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Well, I alluded to a great occult secret in relation to recapitulation and it went whooooosh

You're hung up on your emotional reaction to words on a screen, though.

With all due respect, if you call your brand of denigration ['His recapitulation practices are very weak, because if you truly reclaim energy, your aging slows'] as a 'secret' i don't know how to respond to that.

 

[Durward]

Well, I alluded to a great occult secret in relation to recapitulation and it went whooooosh

Allude again please... we are only human.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Memories are not videos taken by the brain. They are reconstructions, constantly updated. When you make a list of memories and then sit there trying to relive them you aren't really tapping into the energetic phenomena. As well, turning your head and breathing is just stupid nonsense Castenada made up. To tap into the energies and really reclaim them is a much more spontaneous thing , as well as doesn't involve the imaginative faculty at all. A lot of real reclamation is hard to put into words, and you need to master deep states of awareness and be on the way to crystallizing a true I to take full advantage of it. Sorry this isn't the simple pablum you want, but go ahead and practice Castenada's crap for years and see where it gets you.

 

[deci belle]

Fraud or no, the content of Don Juan Matus' directives concerning the way to live as a warrior, and the pre-eminent Sorcerers' Explanation are beyond reproach if one has the personal power to become a man of knowledge. Having passed through the great cycle of taoist spiritual alchemy of the Complete Reality school, I can vouch for that (Don Juan's Toltec Nagual shamanic teaching), as well as that which figures most prominently for those seeking to arrive at the body outside of the body (taoism).

The bottom line is, don't be so quick to heed academics who have everything to gain by attacking the veracity of Castañeda's core content.