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[Help] How Should I Approach Magic in a Scientific World?

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LeChiHao

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Hello everyone!

What do you think about magic? I feel it doesn’t really connect directly to real life. When using it, the results are not clear or fast like scientific techniques, or like the fantasy magic in comics. So how should I approach it? Is it just a set of rigid rules?

Honestly, I don’t even know exactly what I want to say here, because I have complicated feelings about magic. If anyone understands the difficulties I face when trying to approach it, please give me some advice.
 

StandingByGodot

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The thing is, there's no thing as such as a "scientific technique" when it comes for magic, besides "scientific" aesthetics perhaps. Science it's not about proving things or what's possible necessarily, but about observing and cataloging recurrent phenomenons across "our physical world" in order to facilitate decision making and predictions; but matters of solutions to problems lies in the endevour of engineering, and when it comes to magic, you can reverse engineer its processes and understand how it could work. It also can involve thinking about yourself and your world in relation to that in a different way, which makes conceding of changes more easily.
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,
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and
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posts give some excellent pointers on the matter.

I also struggled at the beginning for a while to understand how all this stuff could even work, and absorbing the idea of a dream-like universe cut trough it completely. Besides, it also involve to recognize that your imagination is the fountainhead of all this stuff, because important part of magic is bringing imagination to life, and exploring perspectives. Think about it: If you entered a lucid dreaming, asserted it as your baseline world, and never came back, what would happen? I would say that the most important part for me was self validating this stuff for myself first, and doing low effort sessions to get the momentum going. Here's some helpful sources which provides great explanations of adopting a philosophical mindset tied in with magic:
  • The now inactive
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    forum was what got me into magic at first. It posits the idea of perceiving the world as your own dream-like structure as a basis for your practice.
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    is also another inactive place with great pointers by community, focusing more heavily on the basic philosophical ideas of a purely subjective world.
  • Lastly,
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    by metaphysical author John Paolucci is particularly great in providing you the information to confirm by yourself about your true self, and how this realization gives you the conviction necessary to practice magic without the burden of any "external proof" beyond your own knowledge.
Most of this stuff, you would notice, unite philosophy and magic, and are mainly founded on nondualism at the core, but you actually only need to understand the actual "background" of the situation, and then go ahead, which provides the logic behind the ideas, so it makes sense as you go along. Lastly,
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by this guy gives a lot of information, including in creating syncronicities and a template for magickal rituals, as well as further simple explanations of those FAQs that tend to arise when contemplating magic while having the materialistic conditioning debris get in the way. This is at least the stuff that helped me ultimately, so i hope it can also serve someone else along their own paths, providing the remaining information to fill the gaps.
 

juniperGria

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You would probably quite like Alchemy. I would look into that. And perhaps Aggripas three books of occult philosophy. These would take you down a route slightly less practical and more theory heavy. Aggripas work is good as it explains why you're doing things by teaching you correspondences, and laws of the universe so that you can see how these take effect in the "real world" Perhaps also take a look at the Picatrix. VERY dense and somewhat difficult to read but if you get a good translation and dedicate some time to it you should be fine. A STUNNING explanation of astrological magic and ancient science regarding how the celestial bodies impact our everyday lives
 

Morell

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Hello everyone!

What do you think about magic? I feel it doesn’t really connect directly to real life. When using it, the results are not clear or fast like scientific techniques, or like the fantasy magic in comics. So how should I approach it? Is it just a set of rigid rules?

Honestly, I don’t even know exactly what I want to say here, because I have complicated feelings about magic. If anyone understands the difficulties I face when trying to approach it, please give me some advice.
Take a different angle: How do people in comics or fantasy world get to understand magic? How much do they know about how it works?

Usually they do not. They barely find what works and go with it without seeking explanation...
 

Aldebaran

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Hello everyone!

What do you think about magic? I feel it doesn’t really connect directly to real life. When using it, the results are not clear or fast like scientific techniques, or like the fantasy magic in comics. So how should I approach it? Is it just a set of rigid rules?

Honestly, I don’t even know exactly what I want to say here, because I have complicated feelings about magic. If anyone understands the difficulties I face when trying to approach it, please give me some advice.
Science was once a method. It has become a priesthood.
What is presented today as “science” is rarely the open-ended process of inquiry it pretends to be. It is a sanctioned narrative, administered by credentialed intermediaries whose authority is protected not by evidence, but by taboo. The lab coat has replaced the robe, the journal has replaced scripture, and consensus has replaced truth. One no longer asks whether something is correct—only whether it has been approved.

Magick and Science have no need to be compatible. Science stands like an ostrich in open ground with their head in a hole saying 'I cant prove this so it does not exist'. Magick is the landscape. It is what is when you take your head out of the hole and stop listening to the echo chamber of the masses.
 

Robert Ramsay

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IMO, the simplest way of looking at magic from an objective point of view is using intent to engineer coincidences, or, how to be lucky on purpose.

Everything else is the model that you use to implement this, and it's worth pointing out that magical systems can be massively contradictory of each other, and still achieve the same amount of success.

I went even further, and attempted to author a truly scientific explanation of magic. As you can see from, for example, @Aldebaran 's post above, this is not a popular idea :)

You should investigate different magical systems and see which one appeals to you most. You could also do a lot worse than buy Alan Moore & Steve Moore's 'The Moon and Serpent Bumper Book of Magic', but just remember that Moore's system is not the only one :)
 
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