Shamanism v. Religion?

[SUNDANCE]

I'm curious where people draw the line between an occult practice being "shamanism" and "religion", since one is often an aspect of the other? Asking specifically because I was going to make a post about Mongolian "white", "black", and "yellow" shamanism but those things are all still very deeply connected to the "Mongolian Folk Religion" as well as aspects of Tibetan Buddhism, animism, and other religious concepts. My instinct is that it would lean towards shamanism for discussion of specific ritual practices, magical items, interactions with spirits (which could, theoretically, be separated into LHP/RHP as well) and religion for the overarching beliefs, history, etc?

 

[motzfeldt]

Religion is formalised. It has rites, hierarchies, texts, dogma, communities, etc. Shamanism is more "anarchist" in nature - there's not much in the way of standardised practice, and is rooted more in the practitioner, their experiences, psychoactives and oral tradition.

 

[Morell]

I usually put religion and spirituality in this opposition, with religion being organization and traditions, while spirituality being personal experience of the spiritual.

 

[Planet13]

I think your instinct is largely right, but the line between “shamanism” and “religion” isn’t a hard boundary — it’s more a difference in scope and focus.
Religion usually refers to the broader cosmological and social framework: shared myths, worldview, moral structure, ritual calendar, and historical development.
Shamanism, on the other hand, refers more specifically to a set of ritual techniques and specialist roles within that broader framework — trance states, spirit journeys, healing rites, invocation of spirits, ritual tools, and mediation between worlds. It describes what certain practitioners do, rather than the entire belief system of the culture.
Ultimately, these are modern categories. In traditional Mongolian contexts, there probably wasn’t a strict divide — it was all part of one lived spiritual reality.

 

[FireBorn]

Shamanism and religion aren’t parallel, which is where a lot of confusion comes from.

Shamanism predates organized religion and writing. It isn’t a belief system meant for whole populations, but a specialized role and method centered on direct interaction with spirits, trance, mediation, healing, and negotiation. Not everyone participates, and not everyone can.

Religion, is a structured framework designed for entire communities. Shared cosmology, ethics, ritual cycles, and continuity across generations. It welcomes everyone and stabilizes culture. Huge difference.

In places like Mongolia, what we now separate into “folk religion,” Buddhism, and “shamanism” would have been experienced as one lived reality. Shamanism functioned within that broader worldview, not as a separate 'religion' of its own.

The challenge is to not back fill history with our modern lens and narrative.

 

[intensity4ever]

Greetings kindreds,

As a Shamanic healer, witch, occultist & Luciferian. I would love to shed some light on your question while expounding further.

I hope this response gives some insight into your inquiries:

As an indigenous native shamanic healer, occultist, witch, and Luciferian, I often reflect on the distinctions between shamanism and religion, particularly how they shape my multifaceted practice rooted in ancestral lineages and the dark arts. Shamanism serves as the foundation of my journey, intricately connected to my DNA and heritage. It involves direct interactions with the spiritual realm, utilizing techniques that engage with the energies of the earth, our ancestors, and the mystical forces that govern life. This path is dynamic and experiential, emphasizing individual healing, intuition, and the transformative power of magick.

In stark contrast to structured religious frameworks, shamanism celebrates personal autonomy and fluidity, allowing me to create sacred spaces where I engage with spirits and explore the occult in ways often unrecognized within conventional contexts. My work incorporates rituals designed to invoke and commune with ancestral spirits, drawing from the profound wisdom embedded in my lineage. As a witch, I integrate intentional magical practices, honoring the earth and its energies while deepening my connection to the spiritual realm. This synthesis allows me to harness the power of natural elements for healing and transformation.

My role as an occultist expands my exploration into deeper mysteries, encouraging a fearless quest for knowledge, particularly in areas often regarded as taboo. This exploration enriches my healing work and creates unique dialogues with the energies that shape our existence. Furthermore, embodying Luciferian ideals emphasizes personal enlightenment and the pursuit of knowledge as pathways to transcend limitations and achieve self-mastery. The archetype of Lucifer, as the seeker of wisdom, complements my practices by illuminating the path toward self-realization.

Together, these identities coalesce into a cohesive whole, where animistic spirit work, magical practice, and the principles of Luciferianism inform one another. This holistic approach enables me to guide others on their transformative journeys, weaving together ancestral wisdom, personal experience, and the empowerment that comes from embracing one's true self. Through this diverse tapestry of practices, I cultivate an environment where healing and self-discovery flourish, inviting others to honor their paths while enriching their lives through profound spiritual teachings. In doing so, I celebrate the unity of shamanism, witchcraft, occultism, and Luciiferianism which collectively shape my understanding of the world and my place within it.

In kind regards,
The ShamanicUnicorn Seer aka "She Who Knows"

 

[Ziran]

I'm curious where people draw the line between an occult practice being "shamanism" and "religion", since one is often an aspect of the other? Asking specifically because I was going to make a post about Mongolian "white", "black", and "yellow" shamanism but those things are all still very deeply connected to the "Mongolian Folk Religion" as well as aspects of Tibetan Buddhism, animism, and other religious concepts. My instinct is that it would lean towards shamanism for discussion of specific ritual practices, magical items, interactions with spirits (which could, theoretically, be separated into LHP/RHP as well) and religion for the overarching beliefs, history, etc?

Shamanism came first. Then religion.

Shamanism is rooted in the human mind's unique talent in adopting the attributes of others beyond itself. It was discovered and refined a long long time ago at the dawn of civilization to facilitate persistence hunting. Dressing up in animal skin the scout stalker spent their time in isolation honing their craft. Those that survived and thrived eventually took students and shared what they learned in the wild.

Religion is rooted in scriptural revelation. It's scribal. It came much later. Scribal schools need institutions to enforce the integrity of what's written.

 

[Firetree]

I'm curious where people draw the line between an occult practice being "shamanism" and "religion", since one is often an aspect of the other? Asking specifically because I was going to make a post about Mongolian "white", "black", and "yellow" shamanism but those things are all still very deeply connected to the "Mongolian Folk Religion" as well as aspects of Tibetan Buddhism, animism, and other religious concepts. My instinct is that it would lean towards shamanism for discussion of specific ritual practices, magical items, interactions with spirits (which could, theoretically, be separated into LHP/RHP as well) and religion for the overarching beliefs, history, etc?

Why VS ? But I do see the point . Normally I would frown upon the adoption of the term outside of the indigenous that have that tradition , but I see you seem to undesrtand that . I would like to read your take on white black and yellow shamanism , specifically in the Mongolian folk tradition ( 'shamanism' ) .

have you seen my references to it ? Including Siberian Bo Murgal ?

I have done some research on its possible development , and its influence , in Central Asia on Zoroastrianism and ( Via Tonpa Shenrab ) to 'Tibet' and the influence of Bo on Bon . Maybe that can be part of the discussion ?

 

[Vircaller]

my personal take is that one calls the other in regards to how they perceive themselves with the sole purpose to denote its appliance, when the spanish arrived to south america, they called it shamanism, but to the local natives it was their religion.
it had rigid structures, which mutated in time due to christianism.

 

[Firetree]

my personal take is that one calls the other in regards to how they perceive themselves with the sole purpose to denote its appliance, when the spanish arrived to south america, they called it shamanism, but to the local natives it was their religion.
it had rigid structures, which mutated in time due to christianism.

Well, thats curious ! Since the term 'Shamanism' never got to Spain ( late 17th C ) until after the Spanish arrived in South America (early 16th C ) .

I'd like to see a source on your claim .

... 'Christianism ' ?

 

[diana_i_gusarova]

I think shamanism is based on the personal power of the shaman, and religion is based on the power of the egregore. Therefore, a shaman must be skilled, have a high level of personal training and competence. The priest, on the other hand, can simply perform the rituals, relying on the power of the egregor.

 

[Thee Nightfool]

"Shamanism" (an unfortunate catch-all term nowadays) is the precursor to most, if not all, ancient systems of belief. Being a shaman forces one to interact with the spirits/gods/wights/etc. directly in order to gain knowledge of the hidden things in the world. Religion doesn't require much from the individual at all, in the grand scheme of things, but it gives a decent structure to live one's life by (and, ideally, a glue to keep a society together).

I'm curious where people draw the line between an occult practice being "shamanism" and "religion", since one is often an aspect of the other? Asking specifically because I was going to make a post about Mongolian "white", "black", and "yellow" shamanism but those things are all still very deeply connected to the "Mongolian Folk Religion" as well as aspects of Tibetan Buddhism, animism, and other religious concepts. My instinct is that it would lean towards shamanism for discussion of specific ritual practices, magical items, interactions with spirits (which could, theoretically, be separated into LHP/RHP as well) and religion for the overarching beliefs, history, etc?

Bon is such a fascinating subject. I used to assume that Tibetan Buddhism had "subjugated" the core of the actual tradition, but as I get older, I realize it's still a doorway towards interacting with those things... for those that want to bend a few rules, of course. I find it similar to the cult of Santisima Muerte and Catholicism. Catholicism, in this case, is an entry point to a very chthonic (pagan, if you will) path of sorcery with genuine indigenous roots. I'm certain there are a number of "hidden" European traditions within the umbrella of Catholicism (and even Orthodox Christianity) waiting to be discovered in a similar manner.