Is spirituality just quantum physics?

[Alpaca]

Ive been seeing a lot recently about spirituality just being quantum physics, but i dont agree because the people saying this come from the new thought movement stuff of “believe and feel to manifest”.

but what about spirits and deities and everything else, do they not exist or are they all your mind?

 

[sahgwa]

Ive been seeing a lot recently about spirituality just being quantum physics, but i dont agree because the people saying this come from the new thought movement stuff of “believe and feel to manifest”.

but what about spirits and deities and everything else, do they not exist or are they all your mind?

This is the entire question.
The answer is 'yes and no'
Its the chicken or the egg question.

They are both right, and it doesn't really matter as, they are both there, but also only in your mind.

Just like spooky action at a distance

Our mind creates our reality
But our reality is also illusory

What really matters is that you can meet them and learn from them, or help them. etc
My 3 cents.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Ive been seeing a lot recently about spirituality just being quantum physics, but i dont agree because the people saying this come from the new thought movement stuff of “believe and feel to manifest”.

but what about spirits and deities and everything else, do they not exist or are they all your mind?

I don't know about spirituality, but even magic itself is not just quantum physics. You need relativity, entropy, and chaos theory as well

I know we've had this in other threads, but I personally believe that spirits are egregores, or possibly even a form of generic servitor that has been shaped by each magician's view of what the spirit/deity is like. You can't always predict what attributes you've imbued one of these things with - they might surprise you with things you didn't know you'd built into them...

 

[sahgwa]

I don't know about spirituality, but even magic itself is not just quantum physics. You need relativity, entropy, and chaos theory as well

I know we've had this in other threads, but I personally believe that spirits are egregores, or possibly even a form of generic servitor that has been shaped by each magician's view of what the spirit/deity is like. You can't always predict what attributes you've imbued one of these things with - they might surprise you with things you didn't know you'd built into them...

Yes I forgot to elaborate, but I think 'someone' 'entreating' 'them' 'creates' them too.

 

[Firetree]

No. And I doubt anyone that claims that does not even know what quantum physics 'just is ' .

 

[Ohana]

It kind of is but I agree that its not the full of it. I think the part that is is that no one alive fully knows or if reincarnation exists remembers what happens after death.

The afterlife then might be metaphorically or literally be in a state of superposition until death is reached at which point it collapses into 0 nothing happens there is no afterlife or 1 something happens there is an afterlife. Thats how I see it atleast and spirituality and quantum mechanics could relate therotically. Though I don't fully know if they could relate just a hypothesis on how one concept of spirituality, the afterlife, and quantum mechanics might relate.

Quantum mechanics might explain divination too since just seeing the most likely or possible event but its still in superposition. Until the time comes and it collapses to one of the scenarios divination. Again just a guess though.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Ive been seeing a lot recently about spirituality just being quantum physics, but i dont agree because the people saying this come from the new thought movement stuff of “believe and feel to manifest”.

but what about spirits and deities and everything else, do they not exist or are they all your mind?

More like metaphysics. My belief is that the universe functions the same as chemistry in a way. On earth it is solution, dissolution, solution, dissolution. Thats how i think of the universe.

 

[FireBorn]

Humans have a habit of reaching into the unknown and trying to measure it so we can feel some sense of control. We see the stars, we chart them. We see the ocean, we map and study it. We see patterns, we build language around them, call it math, and feel a little safer, less small, more in control.

Then we hit metaphysics, and suddenly our language gets weak. Our tools get weak too. We cannot measure it cleanly, consistently, or in a way that satisfies people who need repeatability above all else. Shit starts to wobble. So what do we do? Usually we dismiss it, call it woo, box it up, and shove it in the attic.

Psychology has done versions of this too. Measure what can be measured. Build models around what can be modeled. Gloss over the parts that refuse to sit still long enough to be pinned down neatly (cause...meds!)

Then physics starts brushing up against questions that make people uncomfortable, and suddenly a bunch of folks want to use “quantum” as a magic word to explain everything they cannot explain. That is not an answer either. It just 'feels' better to some.

Not everything mysterious is quantum physics. Sometimes it is just mystery.

To me, the real question is not “can you explain all of this yet?" It's: can you sit in paradox without flinching? Can you let something remain unsolved without needing to flatten it into a slogan, a formula, or a narrative?

Because if you need everything pinned down, measured, and made safe before you engage it, then magick is probably going to frustrate the hell out of you more than it wont.

 

[Reizo]

I came across a great video Dr. Angela Puca posted not too long ago on this very topic. I could summarize it but I think I'd be doing everyone a disservice that way, it's worth watching all the way through.

 

[Ohana]

Because if you need everything pinned down, measured, and made safe before you engage it, then magick is probably going to frustrate the hell out of you more than it wont.

Thats probably true strangely for quantum mechanics and math. Their are paradoxes and certain things you can't measure. Like with the heisinberg uncertainty principle. Can't measure both momentum and position if you know one accurately then the other will be less accurate.

Then theres schrodingers cat and have to comfortable with not knowing if the cat is dead or alive.

But with these examples I still don't think that quantum mechanics is basically spirtuality. There seperate and might intersect sometimes as shown with that video but I don't know if its all of it.

It is interesting how some of the roots of occult directly affect modern science. Like modern chemistry relating back to alchemy or how both were seen as sometimes an enemy to religion historically. So I think science and the occult used to intersect more back in the past. I think they still do now sometimes like with the video up above but not as much.

 

[FireBorn]

Thats probably true strangely for quantum mechanics and math. Their are paradoxes and certain things you can't measure. Like with the heisinberg uncertainty principle. Can't measure both momentum and position if you know one accurately then the other will be less accurate.

Then theres schrodingers cat and have to comfortable with not knowing if the cat is dead or alive.

But with these examples I still don't think that quantum mechanics is basically spirtuality. There seperate and might intersect sometimes as shown with that video but I don't know if its all of it.

It is interesting how some of the roots of occult directly affect modern science. Like modern chemistry relating back to alchemy or how both were seen as sometimes an enemy to religion historically. So I think science and the occult used to intersect more back in the past. I think they still do now sometimes like with the video up above but not as much.

Fair, but lets tighten up our language a bit. The term 'occult' is a term meaning hidden, that we have lazily taken and used it as a bucket for lots of beliefs and systems of magick. Sort of like 'Witchcraft' is arguably the largest bucket of tons of beliefs that go back more than 45k+ years.

If we remove the term occult, then we have a larger mess to deal with, granted, but that mess will possibly lead you to more clarity in the end (assuming you want to land with clarity).

Specificity actually matters here.

 

[Nagaram]

I think it's the most dangerous thing any believer could do to conflate a metaphysical claim with ANY science.

I know quantum physics is dubious as a science field, but there is absolutely no benefit to any belief system to try and match up to an academic science. It's simply not the same and will get the sacred beliefs attacked in a way believers aren't equipped for.

Once you start claiming empirical evidence for a belief, you better have the full set of empirical tests to prove the claim.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Humans have a habit of reaching into the unknown and trying to measure it so we can feel some sense of control. We see the stars, we chart them. We see the ocean, we map and study it. We see patterns, we build language around them, call it math, and feel a little safer, less small, more in control.

Then we hit metaphysics, and suddenly our language gets weak. Our tools get weak too. We cannot measure it cleanly, consistently, or in a way that satisfies people who need repeatability above all else. Shit starts to wobble. So what do we do? Usually we dismiss it, call it woo, box it up, and shove it in the attic.

Psychology has done versions of this too. Measure what can be measured. Build models around what can be modeled. Gloss over the parts that refuse to sit still long enough to be pinned down neatly (cause...meds!)

Then physics starts brushing up against questions that make people uncomfortable, and suddenly a bunch of folks want to use “quantum” as a magic word to explain everything they cannot explain. That is not an answer either. It just 'feels' better to some.

Not everything mysterious is quantum physics. Sometimes it is just mystery.

To me, the real question is not “can you explain all of this yet?" It's: can you sit in paradox without flinching? Can you let something remain unsolved without needing to flatten it into a slogan, a formula, or a narrative?

Because if you need everything pinned down, measured, and made safe before you engage it, then magick is probably going to frustrate the hell out of you more than it wont.

Love this. This seems to take root in an absurdist philosophy, which i admire. Be able to percieve the absurd and sit with it while being content with the fact that there are things you will perhaps never understand fully, if at all.

 

[Keldan]

A lot of the so called “mysteries” in metaphysics aren’t really mysteries, they have answers. But these answers require opening all your clair abilities, so you can hear, see, traverse places, and get those answers. That kind of knowing is skill based, and it doesn’t translate into physics' lab measurements. Energy in physics is measured in joules, while in the metaphysical it’s more like in the atmosphere. And even if you’re 10,000 miles away, you can still work with the energy in the metaphysical, something physics still can’t explain.

If you blindfold a physicist and hand them two rocks, they won’t be able to tell one from the other. But an experienced practitioner even without sight knows which is clear quartz and which is hematite. Even though both of them receive the same two rocks. If you can’t distinguish what’s what with your knowledge, then spirituality isn’t quantum physics or even physics at all. Because those trying to explain spiritual phenomena using science are non believers and try so hard to use all kind of theories they can find reasonable enough to explain said phenomena.

Quantum effects occur in matter and light at such tiny scales like atoms, electrons, photons. Those only show up in lab conditions like low temperature, high vacuum, ultra clean environments, etc. In everyday life, things are noisy, dirty, and they aren’t isolated enough for those laws to apply at all. And everything is interacting with each other, with air molecules, light, etc. The quantum system leaks into its environment.

So no, spirituality is spirituality, it’s not quantum physics. Quantum physics can’t explain something when both its knowledge and its laws fall apart outside the lab.

 

[Ohana]

Love this. This seems to take root in an absurdist philosophy, which i admire. Be able to percieve the absurd and sit with it while being content with the fact that there are things you will perhaps never understand fully, if at all.

You know sometimes I think its better to just not know some things so I hope some things I will never understand fully and I'm okay with now.

Maybe whatever force that hides knowledge that people don't need to know is the most merciful force of them all.

Fair, but lets tighten up our language a bit. The term 'occult' is a term meaning hidden, that we have lazily taken and used it as a bucket for lots of beliefs and systems of magick. Sort of like 'Witchcraft' is arguably the largest bucket of tons of beliefs that go back more than 45k+ years.

Anyway I concede that is being very general. A lot of the occult had no history within that sphere but I do admire both for the fearless pursuit of knowledge.

Study of Magick is a varied subject I'm learning so I don't think any one topic could pin it down to its essence.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I think it's the most dangerous thing any believer could do to conflate a metaphysical claim with ANY science.

I know quantum physics is dubious as a science field, but there is absolutely no benefit to any belief system to try and match up to an academic science. It's simply not the same and will get the sacred beliefs attacked in a way believers aren't equipped for.

Once you start claiming empirical evidence for a belief, you better have the full set of empirical tests to prove the claim.

Sometimes in science, the best you can do is prove that you can't prove it

Arthur Dent: "What are the parameters?"
Slartibartfast: "It's impossible to say. And that's one of them."