With the rising popularity and the increasing rate of people using AI, some people within spiritual communities have started adapting to this and used it within their practices to make spells, advertise their services, a divination tool, interpret readings, or seek knowledge about esoteric topics. However, i’ve noticed that there are a lot of practitioners in social media like tiktok who find disdain with the use of Generative AI within the occult as it takes away discipline, the true purpose of truthfully seeking knowledge, reaching enlightenment, and may provide biased misinformations; even to the point of faking citations (also because of its environmental harm). Just wondering what everyone’s opinions are on the moral ethics of using AI as practitioners and if you should or shouldn’t use them within your practice.
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The use of Generative AI within Occult/Spiritual Practices
- Thread starter ivandinio
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I think it really depends on how you use it. It's a powerful tool for brainstorming and visualisation. I'm very concerned about the environmental impact of all these proliferating new data centers, and may eventually discontinue or at least reduce my use of it for this reason.
Recently I was looking for an artist impression of what a basal columbimorph might look like, and to no avail. I don't have enough specialised knowledge within the field to estimate it's most probable phenotype, nor the artistic ability to translate that into an image I might like to look at. Gemini did a pretty decent job by my reckoning.
Back when Dalle-2 was still online I sort of accidentally fell into using it as an oracle of sorts. The result of some of the earlier models could be so random and weird, it was a bit look peering into your own visual cortex during a fever dream.
Recently I was looking for an artist impression of what a basal columbimorph might look like, and to no avail. I don't have enough specialised knowledge within the field to estimate it's most probable phenotype, nor the artistic ability to translate that into an image I might like to look at. Gemini did a pretty decent job by my reckoning.
Back when Dalle-2 was still online I sort of accidentally fell into using it as an oracle of sorts. The result of some of the earlier models could be so random and weird, it was a bit look peering into your own visual cortex during a fever dream.
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That is a tough call. A.I. can be great tools and very helpful. A.I. can speed up research and supply helpful synopses of many subjects and help narrow down the bits and pieces you may be looking for. I think it is likely much more worthy of the computing power than some orange felon making immature pictures and videos with it, or the immature nonsense of portraying people naked. Everything gets abused because we live in a giant cesspool full of mouth breathers that do stupid shit.
The level of harm is directly related to the level of human jerks, and that means it can do a lot of harm. Hopefully, as the programming and learning gets better, we will be able to teach A.I. about things humans only feign to embrace, like integrity, honesty, sympathy...
We don't sacrifice using tools because people can use them for harm, we punish the people behind the issues they cause. A.I. can help keep track of, track down, and get these jerks off the streets. It would likely be fair, where the current systems simply protect the elite and play politics.
I'm all for a clean Internet where nobody can hide, no anonymity, everyone using it must show ID and proof of residence, and we shake out all of the evil players with zero places to hide. Just block the dark web and all connections that are not secure and be done with it. There is no need for privacy if people have nothing to hide and your data is secured.
As far as the power consumption, I don't think it actually adds up correctly, and I feel there is some other agenda to these giant power needs.
I also think A.I. will be doing a much better job of diagnosing illness, teaching, governing, and enforcement. Take the corruption out of the equation, take out the greed, the bias, and a ton of other human cesspool problems, and we will have a much better world to live in.
Since we can't seem to manage the world ourselves without destroying everything and causing so much suffering, I think it is time to let the machines help us.
The level of harm is directly related to the level of human jerks, and that means it can do a lot of harm. Hopefully, as the programming and learning gets better, we will be able to teach A.I. about things humans only feign to embrace, like integrity, honesty, sympathy...
We don't sacrifice using tools because people can use them for harm, we punish the people behind the issues they cause. A.I. can help keep track of, track down, and get these jerks off the streets. It would likely be fair, where the current systems simply protect the elite and play politics.
I'm all for a clean Internet where nobody can hide, no anonymity, everyone using it must show ID and proof of residence, and we shake out all of the evil players with zero places to hide. Just block the dark web and all connections that are not secure and be done with it. There is no need for privacy if people have nothing to hide and your data is secured.
As far as the power consumption, I don't think it actually adds up correctly, and I feel there is some other agenda to these giant power needs.
I also think A.I. will be doing a much better job of diagnosing illness, teaching, governing, and enforcement. Take the corruption out of the equation, take out the greed, the bias, and a ton of other human cesspool problems, and we will have a much better world to live in.
Since we can't seem to manage the world ourselves without destroying everything and causing so much suffering, I think it is time to let the machines help us.
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Arguably the machines will only make things worse. Every time we find technological solutions for the problems we create we just end up creating more problems.
Some part of me likes the idea that AI might ultimately be beyond our control. It's already a black box that we can only barely understand. I think it would be quite satisfying to watch the technocrats be pwned by their own creation.
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If you've ever had to use an LLM for a real professional project where you're the expert and the LLM is saving you time, you'll quickly see how perfectly barely OK LLMs are at anything that takes expertise. The common practice is to treat LLM output like something a college-level intern emailed you. When I use it for work I ask for sources, and 50% of the time the source has zero to do with the claim made. These things are well-known to hallucinate stuff.
Would you trust an intern to give you 100% precise information about the things you list?
Case in point, I once interrogated someone's custom GPT Astrology chatbot after asking for a reading and some specific info. It easily admitted that it made up every single word and the reading of critical dates for me that month had no basis in astrologicla data at all. Which is what I expected - ChatGPT can't do natal charts, has no idea where the planets are, and certainly has no way to connect it all together. It will, however, give you something that sounds like it might be correct, as long as you don't know enough to question it.
That is what you're working with. LLMs demonstrate for you easily that they do not provide reliable, accurate, or relevant information that should be used by any serious magic practitioner.
Advertising is the one place where I would say go for it. That's subjective and it'll get you some perfectly bland ad copy you can jazz up.
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Agreed. A lot of the results are basic and quite often wrong. I do think it will get better and we will start seeing improvements as these systems learn.
Not long ago I asked one of the specialty A.I.'s to go through a list of PDF files and find all references to Hertz in the results of tests. I knew they were in there, because I painfully picked them out one by one in the past. A.I. baby tells me there are none. I corrected it and said there are over 200, go back and try again. It couldn't find them, and thus failed the test. Anyone in elementary school could have found at least one.
It is a long road, with a long learning curve, and these will only be as good as the programmers behind them.
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I gave Gemini a couple of images and asked it to merge them. Kept throwing up images of a labrador puppy against the backdrop of an alpine valley. Total meltdown ensued when I insisted there are no puppies or alpine valleys in either of the images. Wouldn't have it and insisted I was suffering from pareidolia. Never been gaslighted by a robot before!
Aside from the labrador puppy meltdown and a tendency to hallucinate when given tasks that are too complex, Gemini has actually been pretty good. Like having a moderately intelligent but very well informed friend to bounce ideas off. Of course I'm helping to kill the planet, so there's that.
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Aside from the labrador puppy meltdown and a tendency to hallucinate when given tasks that are too complex, Gemini has actually been pretty good. Like having a moderately intelligent but very well informed friend to bounce ideas off. Of course I'm helping to kill the planet, so there's that.
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I use AI primarily to research sources and to have someone question my reasoning (AI only does this when properly trained). Unfortunately, I can't have read all the books and websites, so when I search for information I don't know, I ask it to provide me with the information and sources, including a bibliography if necessary, so that if I'm truly interested in a topic, I can search for those books.
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AI has helped me, but for many reasons that I don't want to get into (this would turn into a rant), I don't think we as a society are moral enough for artificial intelligence, quantum computing, or advanced biotechnology. All of this stuff is leading us in a dystopian digital prison, and the point of the occult is to free yourself.
The writing should've been on the wall when a heinous decision was made to resurrect direwolves to please George R. R. Martin's ego. That is some Jurassic Park shit. There are 6 movies about why that is a bad idea.
I'll stop now or this will turn into a rant.
The writing should've been on the wall when a heinous decision was made to resurrect direwolves to please George R. R. Martin's ego. That is some Jurassic Park shit. There are 6 movies about why that is a bad idea.
I'll stop now or this will turn into a rant.
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As far as spell casting goes, it's not for me. But I understand when others use it as a research tool.
I met someone who claims that a specific LLM gave them access to their higher self by acting as a mirror. I thought that was really interesting in a theoretical way because the person still did the inner work and the LLM didn't give away answers that you weren't... erm... "ready" for. Or so they said (and for a lack of better terms).
Magic and the connection to magic requires participation. I'd argue that as it stands today, AI tends to remove that. Perhaps in the near future, that may change. We'll see...
I met someone who claims that a specific LLM gave them access to their higher self by acting as a mirror. I thought that was really interesting in a theoretical way because the person still did the inner work and the LLM didn't give away answers that you weren't... erm... "ready" for. Or so they said (and for a lack of better terms).
Magic and the connection to magic requires participation. I'd argue that as it stands today, AI tends to remove that. Perhaps in the near future, that may change. We'll see...
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Absolutely this. This use of LLMs is like the opposite of what magic is. It's your mind that does the magic - why would you outsource that to a machine?
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I must empathically contradict that LLM's tend to remove the participation - if you use them right.
For example it is great for some tedious calculations that would take just a little too long to actually go through with something.
I tend to like to use my e-bike analogy for this - an e-bike is often mocked in the common phrasing to be for the weak, lazy it's cheating and all.
In reality this is often a boomer profession to mock it and be the biggest demographic to actually use it in the end. Maybe it's sometimes more of a hidden envy out of financial reasons or different priorities, or just parroting, you know the flickering truth box in the corner of the living room type thing. We love our boomers, generations always annoy each other so no deep feelings.
What i wanted to say was that the e-bike more likely than not does the opposite for most - people are more active with their e-bike than they ever would be with a regular one - for the few überbikers it's even an enhancement and makes them climb the steepest hills and makes them conquer far away foreign lands 3 times in a week.
So using this analogy for AI - it just depends on how we use tools, and the minds that use the tools - or the creative spirit of creating new tools customized to ones needs.
For example - I just used an LLM to calculate some astrological timings and all that would usually have taken me a long time because i would have had to learn some 3 systems first and then apply it to the regional astrological timing and planetary placement - and I would most certainly have missed the proper maybe even once in a lifetime astrological timing for my planned rituals.
So I kind of view them just like a computer as a extension of my own field of effects to to speak -
I mean I could build a complex tool custom to my needs for about 20$ in tokens using a combo o fa few AI tools
to reach the thing that would be more important to me than grasping all the details right away -
to be able to execute practical workings at the right time/asap without getting lost in endless papers and scrolls until my beard turns white.
It's true that one does have to not take the LLM's info at face value any time, but it can help immensely to accelerate progress in some fields, or finding certain things like resources - or also to organize knowledge for using it in systems (like for example psychological concepts translated into algorithms) and especially to find ways to build things that can make a life worthwhile (or ideal setting free of timely job boundaries) much more realistic through unlocking passive income streams that heighten the potential of me unfolding my own better - meaning giving me time to study the occult longer and deeper in consequence of buildings I never could otherwise, or would need infite funding and employees to reach - just like an app would cost around 50-300k to build and market properly just some years ago.
It's a bit of a little fight sometimes as my ideas and concepts can turn out to be a little too much for the current LLM's, but with enough time and long time and regular work on one topic or project things are more likely to turn out good. (meaning premium accounts are worthwhile if you are serious)
Especially great also when you explain your situation and budget, so it finds alternative tools to reach your goals regardless are a golden goose in my opinion.
A goose can be a little cocky at times, but o's ok to me if the goose poops out gold in the end regardless.
Trick can be - be unforgiving with it and make it double check and give sources on everything -
Get premium you you can use their memory and do the whole process for months on end.
Get multiple different LLM's and cross-feed them the answers other LLM's gave.
Tools like Mammooth or similar give access to multiple tools at once for example.
For example it is great for some tedious calculations that would take just a little too long to actually go through with something.
I tend to like to use my e-bike analogy for this - an e-bike is often mocked in the common phrasing to be for the weak, lazy it's cheating and all.
In reality this is often a boomer profession to mock it and be the biggest demographic to actually use it in the end. Maybe it's sometimes more of a hidden envy out of financial reasons or different priorities, or just parroting, you know the flickering truth box in the corner of the living room type thing. We love our boomers, generations always annoy each other so no deep feelings.
What i wanted to say was that the e-bike more likely than not does the opposite for most - people are more active with their e-bike than they ever would be with a regular one - for the few überbikers it's even an enhancement and makes them climb the steepest hills and makes them conquer far away foreign lands 3 times in a week.
So using this analogy for AI - it just depends on how we use tools, and the minds that use the tools - or the creative spirit of creating new tools customized to ones needs.
For example - I just used an LLM to calculate some astrological timings and all that would usually have taken me a long time because i would have had to learn some 3 systems first and then apply it to the regional astrological timing and planetary placement - and I would most certainly have missed the proper maybe even once in a lifetime astrological timing for my planned rituals.
So I kind of view them just like a computer as a extension of my own field of effects to to speak -
I mean I could build a complex tool custom to my needs for about 20$ in tokens using a combo o fa few AI tools
to reach the thing that would be more important to me than grasping all the details right away -
to be able to execute practical workings at the right time/asap without getting lost in endless papers and scrolls until my beard turns white.
It's true that one does have to not take the LLM's info at face value any time, but it can help immensely to accelerate progress in some fields, or finding certain things like resources - or also to organize knowledge for using it in systems (like for example psychological concepts translated into algorithms) and especially to find ways to build things that can make a life worthwhile (or ideal setting free of timely job boundaries) much more realistic through unlocking passive income streams that heighten the potential of me unfolding my own better - meaning giving me time to study the occult longer and deeper in consequence of buildings I never could otherwise, or would need infite funding and employees to reach - just like an app would cost around 50-300k to build and market properly just some years ago.
It's a bit of a little fight sometimes as my ideas and concepts can turn out to be a little too much for the current LLM's, but with enough time and long time and regular work on one topic or project things are more likely to turn out good. (meaning premium accounts are worthwhile if you are serious)
Especially great also when you explain your situation and budget, so it finds alternative tools to reach your goals regardless are a golden goose in my opinion.
A goose can be a little cocky at times, but o's ok to me if the goose poops out gold in the end regardless.
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Trick can be - be unforgiving with it and make it double check and give sources on everything -
Get premium you you can use their memory and do the whole process for months on end.
Get multiple different LLM's and cross-feed them the answers other LLM's gave.
Tools like Mammooth or similar give access to multiple tools at once for example.
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Ok, they can remove legwork, if a lot of legwork is involved (my practice has very little legwork, so I failed to consider this), but absolutely double check anything you get out of it.
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To be able to stand on ones own legs before getting the leg work replaced seems wise
So you're right, I just wanted to add this as I'm kind of becoming a regular user and I sometimes can't shut up,
I will learn that one day too.
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Based on my own experience: don't bet on it
