Ashura and the left hand path

[lumineth Realm Lord]

So, from what I've read, Hinduism focuses on two opposite factions; the daeva, and the ashura. Coming from a Christian background, one would assume that Ashura were evil. But from my reading, the ashura aren't necessarily evil, but represent a different set of beliefs, values, and philosophies than the daeva. Particularly geared towards conflict, power, and domination. Rather than peace, humility, and unity with nature.

My question is does this coincide with the left hand path? If so, how does one incorporate them, and does anyone have any experience with them?

 

[Ananda]

'Hinduism' doesn't focus on the devas or asuras at all. Not surprised that you're on the left hand 'path'.

 

[thepolestar]

I have a Hindu friend who works with the asuras of that pantheon. It's a specific Left Hand lineage originating in northeast India, at least in his case, and they don't advertise for students the way commercial "Tantra" schools do. It's a passed-down family tradition. We exchanged notes a few times since I only have experience with the Goetia. His tradition evokes the asuras for baneful magic, but also for healing. They have a whole mandala that maps the underworld. It's pretty neat.

 

[A.A.S.B]

Asuras are just one of the many "species" Or called as "yonis"

There are many more like gandharvas,dakinis, shakini, yaksha etc.
The system of good vs evil doesn't really work here.
There were good asuras and sly/greedy daevas.
Like every other species including humans.

 

[Ananda]

Asuras are just one of the many "species" Or called as "yonis"

There are many more like gandharvas,dakinis, shakini, yaksha etc.
The system of good vs evil doesn't really work here.
There were good asuras and sly/greedy daevas.
Like every other species including humans.

There is good vs evil in the 'Hinduism'. Asuras generally represent the forces of unrighteousness, chaos, oppression, suffering. The devas represent the opposite, though individual devas may occasionally err, before suffering the consequences, in the stories of the Puranas.

It is bad idea to believe every Purana as genuine. Anyone can make up a story and propagate them. For instance, the stories of Krishna's miraculous deeds and Radha are most likely entirely fictitious, made up by forces with questionable motives. Recently, I noticed some Christian on Quora making up more stories about the deities.

What matters is using your discrimination and practicing the general principles of the religion - Self inquiry, benevolence toward all beings, speaking the truth, accepting the possibility of reincarnation, etc.

What I really meant was that, 'Hinduism' focuses on liberation from the suffering of repeated birth, not the war between the forces of righteousness and unrighteousness.

 

[Firetree]

So, from what I've read, Hinduism focuses on two opposite factions; the daeva, and the ashura. Coming from a Christian background, one would assume that Ashura were evil. But from my reading, the ashura aren't necessarily evil, but represent a different set of beliefs, values, and philosophies than the daeva. Particularly geared towards conflict, power, and domination. Rather than peace, humility, and unity with nature.

My question is does this coincide with the left hand path? If so, how does one incorporate them, and does anyone have any experience with them?

Here is some background ;

Andronovo ( I.E.) came down into Central Asia and interacted with the BMAC civilization (undiscovered until the 70s) and some other influences and formed the 'Indo-Iranians' . Their 'Aryan' suite of religions was reformed by Zoroaster (Mazdayasni Paoiryo-Tkaesha) , Asuras were older Gods ... think of the Zoroastrian 'Ahura-Mazda ' .... 'the' God. The 'Daeva' were either political enemies or tribes that did not accept reformation . This is evident in the correct Avestan name for the religion of Zoroastrianism ; Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho, that is, Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura). After the division (in 'The Great War of Religion ' * - and the end of the Avestan canon ) to Iran and India - the Iranian branch made the 'daveo' ( div , devil, divide, etc ) 'demons' . The Indioan branch went into the Indus valley and at first had Asura and Deva together but after a later reformation , They had a split and the Asuras were 'put to the side ' .

So basically , there was a division - the good guys ( Gods) of one side became the bad guys ('demons') of the other and visa versa.

The dynamic was one of a peaceful people coming up against IE raiders .... people considered without morals and often a little berserk . They drank soma, made from ephedra , a 'war drug' - full of amps ... amped up for war and raids .

There is a passage where Indra boasts of the same ... he actually starts raving like a crazed ice-head , while an Asura , at the same time talks about ' rta ' a cosmic principle of order, similar to Maat .


*

There is more to it than this though , but I doubt anyone would be interested . More, it seems, people want to take whatever , in any context and turn it into some type of 'magic'

Have fun evoking those ancient 'Turanians '

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[A.A.S.B]

There is good vs evil in the 'Hinduism'. Asuras generally represent the forces of unrighteousness, chaos, oppression, suffering. The devas represent the opposite, though individual devas may occasionally err, before suffering the consequences, in the stories of the Puranas.

It is bad idea to believe every Purana as genuine. Anyone can make up a story and propagate them. For instance, the stories of Krishna's miraculous deeds and Radha are most likely entirely fictitious, made up by forces with questionable motives. Recently, I noticed some Christian on Quora making up more stories about the deities.

What matters is using your discrimination and practicing the general principles of the religion - Self inquiry, benevolence toward all beings, speaking the truth, accepting the possibility of reincarnation, etc.

What I really meant was that, 'Hinduism' focuses on liberation from the suffering of repeated birth, not the war between the forces of righteousness and unrighteousness.

No there is not.
Please cite any research papers where there is the concept of good vs evil duality like in the judeochristian traditions.

Please also cite textual references for your claims about asuras being forces of chaos and suffering vs the devas being the opposite.

Nobody mentioned the puranas. Even the vedas do not have this dualistic good vs evil notion.

Please also cite any authorities about the made up radha and krishna stories. And what deleterious motive?! Do you even understand what mythology is?!

Nothing in your post is factual or academically/textually correct.Just your own rather naive viewpoint based on absolutely no valid texts.

 

[Ananda]

Here is some background ;

Andronovo ( I.E.) came down into Central Asia and interacted with the BMAC civilization (undiscovered until the 70s) and some other influences and formed the 'Indo-Iranians' . Their 'Aryan' suite of religions was reformed by Zoroaster (Mazdayasni Paoiryo-Tkaesha) , Asuras were older Gods ... think of the Zoroastrian 'Ahura-Mazda ' .... 'the' God. The 'Daeva' were either political enemies or tribes that did not accept reformation . This is evident in the correct Avestan name for the religion of Zoroastrianism ; Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho, that is, Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura). After the division (in 'The Great War of Religion ' * - and the end of the Avestan canon ) to Iran and India - the Iranian branch made the 'daveo' ( div , devil, divide, etc ) 'demons' . The Indioan branch went into the Indus valley and at first had Asura and Deva together but after a later reformation , They had a split and the Asuras were 'put to the side ' .

So basically , there was a division - the good guys ( Gods) of one side became the bad guys ('demons') of the other and visa versa.

The dynamic was one of a peaceful people coming up against IE raiders .... people considered without morals and often a little berserk . They drank soma, made from ephedra , a 'war drug' - full of amps ... amped up for war and raids .

There is a passage where Indra boasts of the same ... he actually starts raving like a crazed ice-head , while an Asura , at the same time talks about ' rta ' a cosmic principle of order, similar to Maat .

That was a bunch of garbage. The Indus valley civilization which predates the purported 'Aryan invasion' were already worshiping Shiva and had ritual fire hearths, much like the present.

Post automatically merged: Today at 8:27 AM

No there is not.
Please cite any research papers where there is the concept of good vs evil duality like in the judeochristian traditions.

Please also cite textual references for your claims about asuras being forces of chaos and suffering vs the devas being the opposite.

Nobody mentioned the puranas. Even the vedas do not have this dualistic good vs evil notion.

Please also cite any authorities about the made up radha and krishna stories. And what deleterious motive?! Do you even understand what mythology is?!

Nothing in your post is factual or academically/textually correct.Just your own rather naive viewpoint based on absolutely no valid texts.

Those interested can read the Mahabharata, Durga Saptashati, etc. What is good and what is evil is very clearly delineated. I have no interest in or time to argue with LHP clowns.

Post automatically merged: Today at 9:07 AM

Please also cite any authorities about the made up radha and krishna stories. And what deleterious motive?! Do you even understand what mythology is?!

There is no mention of Radha in the Mahabharata. I just have to repeat the word 'Radha' a few times, followed by 'Rama' to discern the energetic effects. Radha never existed.

'Hinduism' has been under attack for a long time. And the whole Radha-Krishna and gopis myth is a ploy to besmirch the Krishna avatara. A very successful one.

 

[HoldAll]

According to my sketchy understanding of Tibetan Buddhism, the asuras aren't evil and the devas aren't good, they've just been reborn in different realms that both aren't very conducive to ultimate liberation (the world of humans is considered optimum). Devas, the gods, don't have any capacity to reflect on the dharma because they're constantly blissed out, asuras have no time for it either because they're pathologically jealous of the gods and are forever engaged in futile attempts to conquer the world of the gods, clambering over each other to get on top, jealous of other's attainments, conceited about their own, eternally jockeying for position, with never a moment's rest or leisure, totally caught up on a world of extreme cut-throat competition. Hence both the devas and asuras are considered flawed - as are humans but we at least have a better chance of snapping out of all that passion-driven bullshit.

There is this unfortunate Western tendency to borrow teachings from other traditions and reinterpret them according to our obsession with polarities. Yes, the asuras and devas are fighting each other (if you can call it fighting, the devas are infinitely more powerful) but they're both deluded victims of their basic dispositions, as are all other sentient beings in the Six Realms. Have asuras something in common the LHP? Yes, the obstinate striving perhaps, the desperate will to get ahead at all costs maybe, but at the price of genuine self-awareness; with asuras, it's instinctual, they can't help being excessively ambitious megalomanics. Asuras aren't an advantageous spiritual role model to follow, IMHO, unless you want to become an irascible fanatic.

Can such a reinterpration of religious history succeed? It seems to have worked (for some) with Satan, the Sitra Achra, the qliphot, etc. but I must say I'm not a fan. All those concepts come with their own gargantuan historical baggage that it's hard to see why a miniscule group on the outer edge of the occult fringe should stand a chance in turning them into something they never were. So ok, write a book about the heroic struggle of the asuras who are the good guys, ack-shu-ally, although nobody said they were evil to begin with - in this case, edgelordy inversion doesn't work, and the LHP isn't 'evil' anway, so why bother?

 

[A.A.S.B]

That was a bunch of garbage. The Indus valley civilization which predates the purported 'Aryan invasion' were already worshiping Shiva and had ritual fire hearths, much like the present.

Post automatically merged: Today at 8:27 AM

Those interested can read the Mahabharata, Durga Saptashati, etc. What is good and what is evil is very clearly delineated. I have no interest in or time to argue with LHP clowns.

Post automatically merged: Today at 9:07 AM

There is no mention of Radha in the Mahabharata. I just have to repeat the word 'Radha' a few times, followed by 'Rama' to discern the energetic effects. Radha never existed.

'Hinduism' has been under attack for a long time. And the whole Radha-Krishna and gopis myth is a ploy to besmirch the Krishna avatara. A very successful one.

No need for foul language.

Calling others "LHP clowns" while being absolutely ignorant on even the basic texts is ironical.

Radha is a character in bhagvata purana and other texts of the bhakti traditions. The only people who feel the krishna avatara is besmirched by these myths are those who lack any understanding of how myths work. Absolutely also repressed psychologically/sexually if you have a problem with these myths.
Maybe a basic course in psychology or consultation with a psychiatrist is in order.
It is also evident that you haven't actually read any of the texts you mentioned.

Learn some manners before blantantly displaying your lack of knowledge and spouting nonsense.

Also you pretending to feel energetic differences between changing one name over other and using that invalidate a whole tradition shows how bright you really are.
Stop being such an edgelord.