[Help] Spiritual awakening or psychosis?

[Glaux]

Hi all, I posted some months ago after what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge. Since then I believe I’ve developed along this path. I’ve tested spells empirically with others and they report that the things I did have worked as intended for them and they appear to have worked for me. Recently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it seems to be a sort of detachment from the material world. I feel more at one with the all and I’m quite care free. However, my executive functioning is in the gutter.

I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis, that I’m actually mad. I’ve glimpsed Hermetic truth, just a sliver. I know it’s all true somehow, at least that’s what I feel in my deepest gut of guts. I employ Ancient Greek in my spells along with scrollwork and so far I’ve invoked my main patron, Apollo, Asclepius as well as Tyche and Persephone. I’ve recently made a black book which I’ve started journaling my thoughts on all of this.

Once again, the point of this post is to try and parse out psychosis from “reality”, if that’s even possible. If anyone has struggled with this, don’t hesitate to leave a post. Thanks guys.

 

[iseht]

Rest in uncertainty.

 

[solxyz]

Hi all, I posted some months ago after what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge. Since then I believe I’ve developed along this path. I’ve tested spells empirically with others and they report that the things I did have worked as intended for them and they appear to have worked for me. Recently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it seems to be a sort of detachment from the material world. I feel more at one with the all and I’m quite care free. However, my executive functioning is in the gutter.

I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis, that I’m actually mad.

It doesn't sound fully healthy; I can say that much. Too much precariousness, anxiety, and dis-ease. It is pretty clear to me that much of what you are experiencing is part of a more-or-less transitory state of mind. But that doesn't mean it is psychosis, or just psychosis. In any case, you should find some practices for cultivating ease and peace in your body while building simple, grounded present-moment awareness.

 

[HoldAll]

Psychosis? Not even close. When you're truly psychotic, you lose your entire everyday functionality, start having hallucinations, behaving erratically in public, endangering yourself and others and urgently require professional help & care just to stay alive. I'd say you're having a severe existential crisis; you wouldn't even be able to reflect on your own state of mind or make this post if you were truly psychotic. Personally, I don't believe occultism has ever driven anybody to madness unless such a condition had been latently present beforehand.

In the 1940s, the lectures of B.F. Skinner about his radical behaviourism often triggered what was called the 'Skinner's Shock' when his students confronted with his theories realized that — by Skinner's deterministic framework — free will was merely an illusion and human actions were merely conditioned responses to environmental stimuli. They'd sit around the campus grass, dazed and confused, their idealistic worldview shattered. Those young people hadn't become psychotic, they just had their minds blown.

In my thinking, great insights and genuine glimpses of the truth always carry a powerful emotional charge. It's not just the sublime philosphy, it's also how it affects our feelings, and that takes a lot longer to digest than the texts themselves. Don't fight it, ride it out. Things will get smoother as you progress. If you feel too top-heavy (which I can imagine can happen quite easily with Hermeticism), do something physical to get grounded, like exercising, cleaning, washing the dishes, or going for a walk.

 

[Morell]

@HoldAll is right about psychosis. What you describe sounds more like being in process of adapting to new experiencing of reality. Just make sure you are grounded enough and have enough of "material time" when spirituality is put aside.

You might want to slow down your furthering of experiencing and let it settle so that you can keep your physical life healthy and manageable. It might feel like living a double life until you can reconnect them again and that's fine.

 

[Kellhuss]

Psychosis? Not even close. When you're truly psychotic, you lose your entire everyday functionality, start having hallucinations, behaving erratically in public, endangering yourself and others and urgently require professional help & care just to stay alive. I'd say you're having a severe existential crisis; you wouldn't even be able to reflect on your own state of mind or make this post if you were truly psychotic. Personally, I don't believe occultism has ever driven anybody to madness unless such a condition had been latently present beforehand.

In the 1940s, the lectures of B.F. Skinner about his radical behaviourism often triggered what was called the 'Skinner's Shock' when his students confronted with his theories realized that — by Skinner's deterministic framework — free will was merely an illusion and human actions were merely conditioned responses to environmental stimuli. They'd sit around the campus grass, dazed and confused, their idealistic worldview shattered. Those young people hadn't become psychotic, they just had their minds blown.

In my thinking, great insights and genuine glimpses of the truth always carry a powerful emotional charge. It's not just the sublime philosphy, it's also how it affects our feelings, and that takes a lot longer to digest than the texts themselves. Don't fight it, ride it out. Things will get smoother as you progress. If you feel too top-heavy (which I can imagine can happen quite easily with Hermeticism), do something physical to get grounded, like exercising, cleaning, washing the dishes, or going for a walk.

Perhaps add a disclaimer here that psychosis has actual medical definitions and your hyperbolic definition here doesn’t actually reflect that; several of OP’s experiences could potentially be psychotic in fact, and confidently claiming otherwise is ethically appalling.

 

[querent k]

a sort of detachment from the material world. I feel more at one with the all and I’m quite care free. However, my executive functioning is in the gutter.

Nope, doesn´t sound like psychosis at all. But a phase in enlightenment which ain´t the Grande Thing it´s cranked up to be, but just a big mess.

 

[HoldAll]

Perhaps add a disclaimer here that psychosis has actual medical definitions and your hyperbolic definition here doesn’t actually reflect that; several of OP’s experiences could potentially be psychotic in fact, and confidently claiming otherwise is ethically appalling.

I didn't look up the medical definition or what the DSM-5 says, I just recounted the stories other people told me about their own experiences in self-help groups and how the therapists in charge of these groups rated and diagnosed them. If you're not severely delusional and still in control of your actions, it's not psychosis, says my doc as a rule of thumb. I'll admit my opinion is based on hearsay, non-clinical psychologists may have other views.

 

[Kellhuss]

I didn't look up the medical definition or what the DSM-5 says, I just recounted the stories other people told me about their own experiences in self-help groups and how the therapists in charge of these groups rated and diagnosed them. If you're not severely delusional and still in control of your actions, it's not psychosis, says my doc as a rule of thumb. I'll admit my opinion is based on hearsay, non-clinical psychologists may have other views.

Right, you didn't look up the medical definition or what the DSM-5 says, instead you relayed your own notion of what is 'truly' psychotic based on a 'rule of the thumb' from your doc.

You haven't even defined what you mean by delusional or severely delusional in your reply or your original post. You've just ejected a bunch of word salad too idiosyncratic to be of any use, and which doesn't at all address the OP's good faith query as to the difference between psychotic experience and mystical experience.

You could have replied with actual defintions or descriptions of psychosis, but instead took the opportunity to showboat your own preferred aesthetic as to experience plus a completely non-sequitur anecdote about Skinner.

I wouldn't normally criticise at length posts like this as the general quality of output on this forum is equally poor but your account is flagged as 'staff member' which means you do have some responsibility as to the quality of your responses.

 

[Firetree]

Hi all, I posted some months ago after what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge. Since then I believe I’ve developed along this path. I’ve tested spells empirically with others and they report that the things I did have worked as intended for them and they appear to have worked for me. Recently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it seems to be a sort of detachment from the material world. I feel more at one with the all and I’m quite care free.

All good so far - 'normal' .

However, my executive functioning is in the gutter.

Its hard to access further as it isn't clear what this means and how it affects you ? I mean; is it one or two little slip ups or cant you even manage to get out of bed ?

I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis, that I’m actually mad. I’ve glimpsed Hermetic truth, just a sliver. I know it’s all true somehow, at least that’s what I feel in my deepest gut of guts. I employ Ancient Greek in my spells along with scrollwork and so far I’ve invoked my main patron, Apollo, Asclepius as well as Tyche and Persephone. I’ve recently made a black book which I’ve started journaling my thoughts on all of this.

Now I am curious about you throwing yourself into all of this . many systems insist on protective and preliminary work way before this stage . Did you do that ?

Once again, the point of this post is to try and parse out psychosis from “reality”, if that’s even possible. If anyone has struggled with this, don’t hesitate to leave a post. Thanks guys.

You could try this thread ;

Magick and Madness

Some questions for those magicians (experienced or otherwise) who have, or are, navigating the sometimes lonely path of the great work with mental health challenges. How do you distinguish genuine mental health problems from the inevitable side effects of active magical practice, and...

wizardforums.com

 

[solxyz]

We don't need to get into the question of whether Glaux's experience meets the DSM-5 definition of psychosis (and, by the way, the DSM does not own the word psychosis). The general and more important question is to what extend Glaux's experience is part of a genuine awakening process and to what extent it represent a primarily psychological disordering. I have been a little surprised at how confidently people here have proclaimed their opinions on this matter. The reality is that we don't have a lot of information to go off of. We know very little of Glaux's mental state or behavior during this time. I would like to urge people to be more circumspect when offering guidance to someone who may be in a psychologically vulnerbale state.

Without claiming to know what's really going on, there are number of things about Glaux's experience that give me pause. First, "what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge." I don't know what that really means, it's definitely questionable. Initiations, especially initiations into specific wisdom paths, don't usually come without our knowing about it. Second, "[r]ecently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change." While there are a couple of texts that have, just by reading them, brought me greater, lasting fundamental spiritual clarity, just reading things is only very rarely enough to trigger genuine awakening experiences of the sort that trigger the kind of mental disturbance that Glaux is reporting. That almost always requires significant engagement with certain spiritual practices. Third, "my executive functioning is in the gutter." Some awakening experiences are dramatic enough to create temporary disruption in one's mundane functioning, so this isn't proof positive on it's own, but this kind of challenge does suggest that something is out of balance, and I see no reason to be confident that Glaux's path is self-stabilizing. Fourth, "I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis." Real awakening should be simple and obvious and unshakable, not at all like a high-wire that you're afraid you might fall off of.

 

[thiago1v1s1]

Hi all, I posted some months ago after what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge. Since then I believe I’ve developed along this path. I’ve tested spells empirically with others and they report that the things I did have worked as intended for them and they appear to have worked for me. Recently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it seems to be a sort of detachment from the material world. I feel more at one with the all and I’m quite care free. However, my executive functioning is in the gutter.

I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis, that I’m actually mad. I’ve glimpsed Hermetic truth, just a sliver. I know it’s all true somehow, at least that’s what I feel in my deepest gut of guts. I employ Ancient Greek in my spells along with scrollwork and so far I’ve invoked my main patron, Apollo, Asclepius as well as Tyche and Persephone. I’ve recently made a black book which I’ve started journaling my thoughts on all of this.

Once again, the point of this post is to try and parse out psychosis from “reality”, if that’s even possible. If anyone has struggled with this, don’t hesitate to leave a post. Thanks guys.

When you feel detached from the material world, what comes in your mind? Is it some sort of danger or is pleasing?

And by executive functioning, which skill you mean?

working memory?
Fluid intelligence?
Reasoning?
decision making?
Inhibitory control?
cognitive flexibility?

For a few days, i was trying Angel Magick using the Book of Sacred Names from Jacobus Swart, and i felt a lot of sensory differences, specifically the touch. While i do the rituals, i usually feel a big chill, like it is an electric current passing through all my skin, and after i recite the name of Raziel and Rafael, my skin simply bursts and my perception that i'm touching objects feels amplified to a point that i can feel the wood from the table 2 meters away from me, even if i'm not looking at it.

It could be good to see a therapist thar also knows something about magick ( specially one from one of the cognitive approaches, like ACT, PBT and FAP) and try to uncover together those experiences.

 

[Morell]

We don't need to get into the question of whether Glaux's experience meets the DSM-5 definition of psychosis (and, by the way, the DSM does not own the word psychosis). The general and more important question is to what extend Glaux's experience is part of a genuine awakening process and to what extent it represent a primarily psychological disordering. I have been a little surprised at how confidently people here have proclaimed their opinions on this matter. The reality is that we don't have a lot of information to go off of. We know very little of Glaux's mental state or behavior during this time. I would like to urge people to be more circumspect when offering guidance to someone who may be in a psychologically vulnerbale state.

Without claiming to know what's really going on, there are number of things about Glaux's experience that give me pause. First, "what I think was a Hermetic initiation without my knowledge." I don't know what that really means, it's definitely questionable. Initiations, especially initiations into specific wisdom paths, don't usually come without our knowing about it. Second, "[r]ecently, I began (slowly) reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Not long after, my mental state began to change." While there are a couple of texts that have, just by reading them, brought me greater, lasting fundamental spiritual clarity, just reading things is only very rarely enough to trigger genuine awakening experiences of the sort that trigger the kind of mental disturbance that Glaux is reporting. That almost always requires significant engagement with certain spiritual practices. Third, "my executive functioning is in the gutter." Some awakening experiences are dramatic enough to create temporary disruption in one's mundane functioning, so this isn't proof positive on it's own, but this kind of challenge does suggest that something is out of balance, and I see no reason to be confident that Glaux's path is self-stabilizing. Fourth, "I’m terrified that this has all been psychosis." Real awakening should be simple and obvious and unshakable, not at all like a high-wire that you're afraid you might fall off of.

Good argument to consider. Though unless @Glaux himself gives us feedback, we cannot know who is more or less right.

 

[HoldAll]

Right, you didn't look up the medical definition or what the DSM-5 says, instead you relayed your own notion of what is 'truly' psychotic based on a 'rule of the thumb' from your doc.

You haven't even defined what you mean by delusional or severely delusional in your reply or your original post. You've just ejected a bunch of word salad too idiosyncratic to be of any use, and which doesn't at all address the OP's good faith query as to the difference between psychotic experience and mystical experience.

You could have replied with actual defintions or descriptions of psychosis, but instead took the opportunity to showboat your own preferred aesthetic as to experience plus a completely non-sequitur anecdote about Skinner.

I wouldn't normally criticise at length posts like this as the general quality of output on this forum is equally poor but your account is flagged as 'staff member' which means you do have some responsibility as to the quality of your responses.

You haven't stated your own position yet. This is a forum where people voice their opinions and share their knowledge. Many of my own posts are based on book learning but as I have some practical experience concernig this topic, I wrote what I've heard first-hand from former patients, physicians, therapists, psychologists, and nurses. If others see take a broader view than me, that's fine, of course, it's a serious subject after all that requires different perspectives and inputs. My contribution was based on my own experiences as a bipolar person who had two major months-long episodes during which I may have done some crazy stuff but wasn't psychotic, in my own opinion as well as in the estimation of my neurologist and my therapist. Nasty, unsophisticated real-life stuff, I'll admit to that.

I can only guess what's your beef with my post is. My plan wasn't writing a thesis or an essay about psychosis, which wasn't the subject of the thread anyway. Instead, the OP described a crisis brought on by dealing with various occult experiences, interpreting them along the lines of an impairment of mental health - I said no, it's similar to the cognitive shock Skinner's students had, don't worry. Other posters may chime in who had genuine psychotic episodes (we've had such threads already, I might add) and who won't care about academically defining delusional states either.

You haven't contributed anything substantial to this thread yet. Instead you're whining about low-quality posts and that the discourse in this thread doesn't go to your liking. I suppose you'd like to keep the discussion nicely general and theoretical instead, so what are your views with regard to the subject of this thread? All opinions are welcome if they help the OP, so please let us know what you think.