Purity of metals for items?

[jakalsa]

Apologies for my fat-fingeredness, if there is any, in this thread as I am using a phone with a bad display.
I was looking into the metal, worn sigils of solomonic magic tonight and I saw someone using 10k gold for a pentacle of Paimon. I understand not everyone has 777 luck or a gamblers hand, as I do not either, but I occasionally question the use of materials by some practitioners, especially those online. I often see modern demonolaters preforming their rituals with aesthetizied altars, offerings, and preformances.
I have nothing against those who practice newer styled demon-summoning, demon-driving, demon binding, or what have you, but I think that people who practice traditional magic (such as solomonic magic) should be weary of misuse of their materials. Of course, not everyone will have a northeastern branch of barley with 3 knots and a quarter grown into its limb, but I think the components of the item used should be looked over thoroughly first. I remember, when I was on an old reddit sub I saw someone suggesting paper talismans, staffs, and swords. Are we not worried that the demon we summon will just spit fire or hurl acid at the off-cuts and burn down our home? I just think its curious.

 

[TransGothGirl]

Using paper (well, usually parchment but that's probably just because it was in more common use than paper when these grimoires were written) along with magical inks in specific colors is a historically acceptable substitute for talismans, lamens, and pentacles that's mentioned in multiple old grimoires. From there, it naturally follows that you could use other materials as well, as long as they share a planetary correspondence with the spirit or energy you're working with.

That being said, you should make sure the material does in fact match up with your intention. If someone is selling, for example, a pentacle of Venus or a seal of a Duke of the Goetia (which should be done in a Venusian material, such as copper) in stainless steel (which, since it's steel, is associated with Mars) it's either not likely to work at all or will have unexpected effects. If, however, the Venusian talisman is made in parchment/paper with green ink (or green paper and an associated ink, like a copper color) or in the wood of a Venusian tree, there should be no difference in effect.

 

[L’chaimGoldberg]

Ive often wondered about some of these grimoires, like telling you to make some item out of the purest gold, what the hell do I look like to you, some kind of Medici prince? I don’t care how wealthy you are, making a solid gold lamen, lamp, or whatever is getting a little bit much, never mind collecting herbs at exact planetary times and Christian holy days.
were these like inside jokes and something to keep dabblers from trying magic? I don’t know. But some of it is pretty absurd when you look at it from face value.

i read lon milo duquette saying that if you think you can’t do enochian magic with a paper magic ring, then having one made of solid gold isn’t going to serve you any better. It’s definitely something to keep in mind. Ive got dedicated wood and stone ritual cups and bowls that work for me, and I have seen styrofoam cups and plastic bowls work just as well when they are all that’s available.

fwiw in response to OP, Dr Skinner mentioned in one of his videos that wearing the lion skin belt makes a difference in the spirits (goetia) obeying you, and at the same time that paper crowns are serviceable, at the same time he mentioned that the sword has to be iron/steel and be sharpened. So there’s that.

 

[BlackRose97]

Historically, purity was highly emphasized because it represents a 'clean' channel for specific planetary energies (like pure copper for Venus or pure silver for the Moon). However, in modern practical magick, intent and alignment matter more.

While having a 99.9% pure metal talisman is an amazing anchor, a high-quality alloy often works just as well if you program it correctly. I see physical purity as a way to minimize 'noise' in the energetic transmission, but a strong practitioner can easily overcome minor material impurities with focused willpower and proper consecration.

 

[L’chaimGoldberg]

Historically, purity was highly emphasized because it represents a 'clean' channel for specific planetary energies (like pure copper for Venus or pure silver for the Moon). However, in modern practical magick, intent and alignment matter more.

While having a 99.9% pure metal talisman is an amazing anchor, a high-quality alloy often works just as well if you program it correctly. I see physical purity as a way to minimize 'noise' in the energetic transmission, but a strong practitioner can easily overcome minor material impurities with focused willpower and proper consecration.

I wonder how the medieval and renaissance magicians viewed the idea that you’re pointing out? I don’t have an opinion either way, but I wonder if any of them back then considered it the way you’re describing?
We look at the PGM and there doesn’t seem to be that level of concern for the materials.

 

[BlackRose97]

I wonder how the medieval and renaissance magicians viewed the idea that you’re pointing out? I don’t have an opinion either way, but I wonder if any of them back then considered it the way you’re describing?
We look at the PGM and there doesn’t seem to be that level of concern for the materials.

That's a really sharp point, L'chaimGoldberg. I think the difference lies in the accessibility and the intent of the time. In the medieval/renaissance period, their focus was often on creating an 'ideal' ritual environment that could bridge the gap between their own limitations and the divine. They didn't always have the luxury of high-purity materials, but they put so much effort into the consecration to compensate, which proves my point about focused willpower. The PGM often relied more on the raw authority of the operator than the physical substrate. I don't think they disagreed with me; I think they were just working with a different set of constraints!

 

[L’chaimGoldberg]

That's a really sharp point, L'chaimGoldberg. I think the difference lies in the accessibility and the intent of the time. In the medieval/renaissance period, their focus was often on creating an 'ideal' ritual environment that could bridge the gap between their own limitations and the divine. They didn't always have the luxury of high-purity materials, but they put so much effort into the consecration to compensate, which proves my point about focused willpower. The PGM often relied more on the raw authority of the operator than the physical substrate. I don't think they disagreed with me; I think they were just working with a different set of constraints!

Yeah I’m not saying they would disagree with you, or that one is right and the other is wrong, I always think about odd subjects and remember “there’s nothing new under the sun”, I notice how modern magic, or at least what passes for it, is almost this atheistic, self deification that puts the magician as an equal to “god” (abrahamic god) or the gods in general. Whereas medieval and renaissance magicians were almost in a constant state of groveling and supplication.
Ive also continually wondered how much of the materials requirements from those grimoires were just a blind. I mean surely SOMEONE back then used an old piece of board or rag to scratch a sigil on and got results, just like nowadays you see TikTok videos where someone is using a sharpie to write on a postit note.

Post automatically merged: 23 minutes ago

That's a really sharp point, L'chaimGoldberg. I think the difference lies in the accessibility and the intent of the time. In the medieval/renaissance period, their focus was often on creating an 'ideal' ritual environment that could bridge the gap between their own limitations and the divine. They didn't always have the luxury of high-purity materials, but they put so much effort into the consecration to compensate, which proves my point about focused willpower. The PGM often relied more on the raw authority of the operator than the physical substrate. I don't think they disagreed with me; I think they were just working with a different set of constraints!

Talking about the intent of the time, we see a lot of angel and demon magic centered around learning material science like astronomy and metallurgical technology, and with folk magic it’s all love spells rofl.

As a historical reconstructionist I would love to find out more about the views of the ancient Egyptian mages, though since they were mostly just priests moonlighting on the si, I guess I should just study Egyptian cosmology and ritual beliefs