Typhon as a goddess in Kenneth Grant's Typhonian trilogies

[Tanaquil]

I started reading some books of Kenneth Grant's Typhonian trilogies , to be precise, "Hecate's fountain" is finished, few others are only very partly read due to the dense, complex, weird mixture of ideas which is KG's style. I keep having the feeling that there are sustantial things or knowledge or experiences which can be dug out of that, which is why I continued. To help understanding what the author means, I started reading Henrick Bogdan's "Servants of the Star and the Snake", composed of essays on KG's genealogy of the diverse subjects he mentions and often mixes.

It is in this book, in the appendix of the chapter discussing the entity Lam, first mentioned by Aleister Crowley, that a glossary is proposed on various names such as Ta-Urt, Draco, draconian tradition, Typhon, typhonian tradition ... And there it is written : for KG, Typhon would be a primitive avatar of the Great Mother, with a story of sort of neolithic egyptian civilisation, following the typhonian or draconian tradition, which would have worshiped Typhon as the Great Mother, represented by the Ursa Major constellation, and Sirius would be Set, her son and only male god worshiped at the time. I will not discuss the (as far as I know) non-historical ground of this interpretation.
What I am rather wondering is : where did he get the idea that Typhon would be female, and an archaic Great Goddess? Are there any authors before him or contemporary who had a similar approach (wether occult, 'fancy historians'...)? Is there anything anywhere which would make Typhon something else than the "usual" Typhon who is associated to Seth as a male demonic/chaotic type of divinity or monster? Or is it a total invention from KG, but still, is there a way to know what led him to such a twist?

If anyone has an idea about that, it would be welcome. I feel quite puzzled.

 

[leemuria]

The only thing that immediately comes to mind is that Typhon is generally considered to be Gaia's son (Hesiod's Theogony). Maybe when they say Typhon is an avatar of the Great Mother, they mean more that he is a representative for his mother? Also havent found any connections between Typhon and Ursa Major.
Could also be in reference to Pindar's idea that Typhon was the catalyst for the creation of the Ancient Egyptian gods. According to him, at one point Typhon chased the gods of Olympus all the way to Egypt, where they turned into animals to escape him. This is possibly an ancient Greek explanation for why Egyptian godshave animal heads. By that token, Typhon is the 'creator' of the Egyptian panthenon, which could earn him the title of mother? Only problem is the story is one big anachronism, Pindar was born in 518BC, thousands of years after 'neolithic egyptian civilisation'.

This is all I could find for now, sorry it doesn't really answer your question. My knowledge is only cursory tho, the answer may be out there!

 

[Voidking]

Perhaps because ancient traditions used to have a kind of gigantomachia or war between the Feminine Dragon Serpent Lunar Dark Goddess Vs the Masculine Phallic Solar Hero God ? in that sense Typhon is a draconian entity and therefore feminine in terms of polarity of energy and consciousness?

 

[stalkinghyena]

The OP makes me recall my own confusion on the point of Typhon back when I was going through Grant's roller coaster ride. My impression of his notion of Typhon as "primordial goddess" that it is just one feature of his overall approach to comparative religion mixed with numerology rooted in the dichotomy of Nuit and Hadit in the Book of the Law. It would take me some time to go back through his books to find out where he actually plants the flag on Typhon as Feminine Principle, but his gender-bending of forms is quite common, and this points to an original Androgyne principle.

Aside from his stated goal in the Magickal Revival that he wished to honor the God Set, his only real consistent equation to what amounts to a meandering formula of the "tradition" is that the Mother gives birth to a son who then becomes her husband. Again, this points back to Nuit-Hadit. Forms are presented, altered, and then restored, and then revisited from a new angle. But the Nuit-Hadit formula is the root of his conception of sexual magic as linked across a multitude of more familiar traditions and practitioners. This sort of hyper-cosmic incestuous generation of reality gives rise to a

dense, complex, weird mixture of ideas

that somehow links all magical traditions (he is concerned with) up to today with the original primal religion that spread across the globe long before the advent of any types of organization we are familiar with. And of course, it is "extraterrestrial" in nature, though not of little green men so much as in an energetic sense. Most of his fixation that I recall was on Sirius (and its companions) as actually being the symbol of the Mother and Son/Husband. The Ursa Major connection slips my mind, except in the sense that it definitely connects to the Simon Necronomicon, which he in his later books makes reference to as a "recension".

Stripping the layers to something more philosophically familiar, it's basically a pristine theology Grant is after, not so much in a truly scholarly mode but in more of a poetic "non-rational" one. He uses the term "metathesis" to describe his reasoning. He could grab onto anything and use numbers and etymologies to make it fit into his ideas, but he is not preaching so much as prodding. That is, his project is meant to nudge the reader into their own creative mode, or "creative occultism", though he often makes what seem like silly factual assertions rooted in obsolete sources such as Gerald Massey. I recall a couple of occasions where, after a wild roller coaster ride of symbolic fusions, he will break his own "fourth wall" and state plainly that is all figurative symbolism, not meant to be taken dogmatically or literally, but to show the reader what is possible in their own understanding.

So, Typhon-Set as Feminine/Masculine dichotomy is one preference (or formula), and there are a thousand explanations all cycling around a more transcendent model which - and this is very important - constitute what he sees as the goal of the Vama Marga as he understands it.

 

[Tanaquil]

Thank you all for your replys; and especially @stalkinghyena for the very complete and detailed explanationswhich really make sense in the context. Indeed, it is somehow a roller coaster ride to go through KG's books. The clear synthesis you make show that you have obviously dealt rather well with it.

[Now a bit of speaking a little about myself, can be skipped. I guess I am still struggling with his "creative occultism" approach, although I had grabbed let's say at least a minimum of what it means. It is positively challenging for me because I have always been very much in the approach of finding what does exist, and what does not. Having huge difficulties to apprehend all what could be in between, or having suspiscions that the "in-between" is a highway to madness and so, is like spiritual and occult biohazard. Witnessing few people slipping into guenuine madness out of such attemps, when I was still quite young, has played a highly repulsive role.
Now being older, a series of experiences led me to Kenneth Grant and I assume I am more mature and have more knowledge myself of many traditions to understand, or try to understand, how to built a path of creative occultism as he presents it and all the potential in it. That may be why I am now where I am with diving into his writings, and breaking my usual limitations when it comes to occultism, imagination and creation. ]

But now, let's imagine one would take some PGM spells involving Typhon, especially one with an initiation to Typhon (PGM IV 154-285), so the "usual" version of Typhon, and doing it but with the idea KG has of Typhon, what could be the outcome? Or, to say it in another way, would the blending of a "historical mythic figure" with one imagined in the way of Kenneth Grant could be of interest (not to speak of possible risks of any sorts)? Probably that would be an interesting attempt in a creative form of occultism, but beyond that? If anyone has an idea, or already tried something which could relate?

 

[stalkinghyena]

For my part, @Tanaquil, I am glad I could help in some way.

having suspiscions that the "in-between" is a highway to madness and so, is like spiritual and occult biohazard.

From an initiatory standpoint, it's kind of a "running and returning" type thing. That is, in this sense, pushing boundaries and the coming back to the center - sort of like an internal Space Program (as in one is a "Lamanaut" ). This sort of edging is what Grant is suggesting, but it is still all about maintaining control.
One Thelemic critic of Grant who had a blog I read way back before I had access to Grant pointed out that KG's focus seemed to be the use of fear, but after reading most of the works, this struck me as being of a Lovecraftian cathartic flavor. Which may seem odd.

doing it but with the idea KG has of Typhon, what could be the outcome?

I can't say but it sounds like a worthy experiment. KG would probably point out that individual results and correspondences are more key that what he is saying, which points to his influence on Chaos Magic.
In terms of Typhon specifically, his remarks can be what I call a "white elephant problem". Agree or disagree, the data is still in the mind, lurking in the unconscious, but its just a perspective only.
While reading Grant I sidestepped to Seth, God of Confusion by Herman te Velde. I found one help in staying grounded while reading Grant (and in a work further on he quotes it, so...)

Robert Graves and the Jungian Erich Neumann were also great authors to read in covering the Great Mother.

 

[Tanaquil]

@stalkinghyena : Thank you again for your answer and references, it is indeed of great help for me. As far as I can see, there are not so many persons in generak who read KG, in an extensive way, and at the same time understood, and are able to explain better some aspects of what he says (and are willing to do so).

In terms of Typhon specifically, his remarks can be what I call a "white elephant problem". Agree or disagree, the data is still in the mind, lurking in the unconscious, but its just a perspective only.

I think I see what you mean. In fact, speaking of lurking in the subconscious, I have this PGM spell lurking in my mind since 2 or 3 years now, but I never went further as I didn't really know "what I would do with Typhon in my life", to make it simple. But now, with another verson of Typhon, it makes things different. Not the same divine entity, not the same goal. The experimental aspect of it sounds attractive to me, it gives me new reasons to be interested in this spell. Also, I guess I like KG's iconoclast attitude towards "classical occultism" with a solar active high god and some whatever passive important, but secondary female principle. It is not among the reasons why I was drawn at first to KG's books but it is definitely another reason to appreciate his approach.

Robert Graves and the Jungian Erich Neumann were also great authors to read in covering the Great Mother.

I read Robert Graves quite long ago, but it could be a good time to have another look at it. I will definitely have a look at what wrote Erich Neumann about it. In general, my professional background on the topic of ancien divinities, especially goddesses, is not too bad as I have degrees in ancient history (especially ancient Rome), especially religion. But my flaws being the result of my strengths, it is a field where archaeological findings or texts are all. KG challenges me positively on that and I am glad for it. A Jungian approach will most likely be more useful to me in that matter than archaeology.

While reading Grant I sidestepped to Seth, God of Confusion by Herman te Velde. I found one help in staying grounded while reading Grant (and in a work further on he quotes it, so...)

I take this reference as well. I think I see what you mean. This will most likely be quite useful for my upcoming reads and experiments on blending PGM and KG's Typhon.