Blackpill is disgusting, especially from a spiritual stand-point

[Calacuerda]

im not saying that beauty doesn't exist but I am saying that its subjective

The problem i see is that you cant have a, cohort of "beautiful" people that benefits from an "halo effect" without having an consistent group of people that have characteristics that are reliably considered attractive. Attractiveness can be subjective or objective(we can debate this all day) but it is consistent and acts as an objective fact. taste in food may be subjective but we can all agree that cheesecake is better than eating sewage.

ther than bodily symmetry and being clean there are not many if any universal beauty standards

There is a lot of beauty signals. Take a look at Quoves youtube channel, as one exemple. Even if they turn out to be cultural, you still are locked into that culture(and with globalization this culture is becoming more hegemonic). It would be like an "untouchable" dalit indian saying that the fact that being an untouchable is just cultural makes it not matter(even if it affects his entire life, job prospect, suicide risk, economics and etc etc). I mean, racism is literally a product of arbitrary culture and radically traumatizes entire races.

when I was younger was really into not just bigger girls but like morbidly obese women that allot of ppl would have not thought attractive at all.

Mans attractiveness variates more because man produces millions of sperm, have literally zero liabilities(like pregnancy) and suffer less from STD's and infections than women. a woman will be more of an eugenicist because she can have only 1 pregnancy for 9 months(while a man can cause thousands). Statistically a woman should not become fat just because of you(and some small percent the population that have a heterodox fetish). She would attract way more people by improving her looks(which likely involves becoming thinner, not fatter).

if you wanna to the beat version play to all of your strengths and not just be hyper focused on looks

Clever. But i would not devalue something just because i may not have it. I don't devalue money because i am poor, for example.

 

[Lu_CiD]

The problem i see is that you cant have a, cohort of "beautiful" people that benefits from an "halo effect" without having an consistent group of people that have characteristics that are reliably considered attractive.

you can its heavily depends of where you do your testing. also when what we consider fat was the height of attractive throughout a ton of history in the western world do to the imbalance of wealth and health. this is still true in some African cultures to this day to the point of using forced fattening of female children otherwise they will have a huge problem getting married.
there are a ton of examples that its all cultural neck stretching in south east Asia. foot binding. in China. teeth blackening in japan. like you said the world is becoming more homogeneous making western current beauty standards more prevalent , however it doesn't mean that their are come certain set beauty standards they change based on culture purely. other than symmetry like I said.

suffer less from STD's and infections than women

infections only slightly sti's are the exact same.

Clever. But i would not devalue something just because i may not have it. I don't devalue money because i am poor, for example.

money is also cultural. and one can argue that money is a huge issue and forces false value intact taking away from what truly has value. money is a relatively modern thing as well and is way way over valued. we are in a capitalist society so it just seems that way.

but yes focusing on just one part of a whole will make the rest suffer.

Mans attractiveness variates more because man produces millions of sperm, have literally zero liabilities(like pregnancy) and suffer less from STD's and infections than women. a woman will be more of an eugenicist because she can have only 1 pregnancy for 9 months(while a man can cause thousands). Statistically a woman should not become fat just because of you(and some small percent the population that have a heterodox fetish). She would attract way more people by improving her looks(which likely involves becoming thinner, not fatter).

again purely cultural. we are a monogamous society so that doesn't really matter and ive also met close to the dame amount of women as men that like larger or chubbier ppl. again attraction is subjective.
where allot of confusion comes from is cultural pressure making it hard to actually own up to what your really into especially if it doesn't conform to what is generally held as a standard.

also im really enjoying this conversation and im glad we can have this with out animosity. thanks for that.

 

[Calacuerda]

you can its heavily depends of where you do your testing. also when what we consider fat was the height of attractive throughout a ton of history in the western world do to the imbalance of wealth and health. this is still true in some African cultures to this day to the point of using forced fattening of female children otherwise they will have a huge problem getting married.
there are a ton of examples that its all cultural neck stretching in south east Asia. foot binding. in China. teeth blackening in japan. like you said the world is becoming more homogeneous making western current beauty standards more prevalent , however it doesn't mean that their are come certain set beauty standards they change based on culture purely. other than symmetry like I said.

It seems we disagree a lot about the concept of beauty. But to simplify this discussion, i think we can agree on 1 fundamental thing(based on all this discussion). 1 - Whether cultural or biological, beauty is a consistent and measurable thing on western societies. I think this is enough to prove my point here, and unless you go to the middle of nowhere in Africa, ugly people in western society will be ugly people in a western society.

That out of the way, Now we could debate whether beauty is the most important thing or not.(but i don't know if you still disagree that beauty is important, or just think it is important but variates a lot)

However, i think i can say that beauty is heavily biological thing.

again purely cultural. we are a monogamous society so that doesn't really matter and ive also met close to the dame amount of women as men that like larger or chubbier ppl. again attraction is subjective.

Attraction is a product of evolution, because if you chose wrongly, your offspring could literally die, along with you in childbirth, in more malthusian era. Monogamy is an very recent evolution and didn't shape our evolution. Still, i imagine that monogamy would makes you choosier, because you are supposed to stay with the same partner forever.

infections only slightly sti's are the exact same.

Again, notice what i am saying here. Imagine you are a woman in pre-historic times. If you are pregnant you may die in many ways possible ways, the man can abandon you, the penetrative partner generally suffer from more risks of std and infections and you can only become pregnant once every 9 months. You would be choosier then, and this would change your evolution up until now.

where allot of confusion comes from is cultural pressure making it hard to actually own up to what your really into especially if it doesn't conform to what is generally held as a standard.

Because even if it was cultural(i myself think it is not), it would still matter as much. Search the life of the Dalits or Burakumin. Pure cultural phenomena created an underclass of people that are still today: less educated, poorer, more depressed and working back-breaking jobs.

I think the point about more heterodox beauty patterns: The tendency for older societies to valorize fatness, foot binding, geisha blackening their teeth is that culture can change beauty standards in a certain way: if you live in an scarcity culture, fat will be more valuable, if an emperor decides mangled foot is hot(it can become a trend), however, this will only be an additional heterodox layer to an objective standard of beauty. It’s much like when cultures disagree if spicy food is better than food without spice, the disagreement is in the details. Nobody is disagreeing that fat, protein and carbs are tasty.