Magical Rules of the Universe

[Spiritual doctor]

Abstinence is Christian bullshit. Use a bit of logic: If everything is "god" creation and everything needs to be part of god including demons, then if god is "pure" everything should also be considered pure. Do not roll in the mud trying to keep Christian contradictions and views while doing magic cuz just makes you lose time.

The Septenaries are opinions from the author, everything that is overly religious you can ignore. God this and that ... is all bs nobody has true knowledge how magic, universe and "god" works.

Focus on the nomina barbara, sigils and possible offices of each spirit on the procedure described by the book like Aphorism 17 ahead.

I like to use anti-dusk chalk and draw on the floor the sigils, also you can use the techniques from The Sworn Book of Honorius and Lesser key of solomon to aid you on the invocation. the invocation is better done when you are in a silent place to avoid distractions, you can write the invocation on a paper and read.

Use an app to know the planetary hours.

My goal is not about invoking barbaric name and drawing sigils only but the goal is getting the desired result so to get the desired result you must follow real magic rules not rules of magical philosophies because philosophy have no end there are thousands philosopher rises in each magical generations so follow the rules of real magic that equal to the rule of universe. Every things in universe have its opposite you can not mix purity with dirtiness both have their own laws and they both have different application according to the law of universe.

 

[Toz_]

My goal is not about invoking barbaric name and drawing sigils only but the goal is getting the desired result so to get the desired result you must follow real magic rules not rules of magical philosophies because philosophy have no end there are thousands philosopher rises in each magical generations so follow the rules of real magic that equal to the rule of universe. Every things in universe have its opposite you can not mix purity with dirtiness both have their own laws and they both have different application according to the law of universe.

There is no rules. If you think in a certain way, why would chaos magick (psychological paradigm) work and "spirit" magick (spiritual paradigm) also work? If you start to use logic on magick you will be able to reduce it to its essence, belief itself, not some objective law "out there." Same thing happens when you apply logic to dualism, this idea that everything in the universe has an opposite. Science doesn't back this up: in physics, charge is a spectrum from negative to positive with zero right in the middle, not two rival forces; temperature is just molecular motion, so "cold" isn't a thing fighting "hot," it's just less energy, meaning "cold" doesn't technically exist as its own entity; even matter and antimatter aren't opposites in the poetic sense, they're mirror states that annihilate into energy when they meet, not eternal rivals locked in balance. And not every "thing" in the universe has an opposite, some things exist on their own, like a rock or a number. What sound like opposites are usually two ends of a scale, or one is really just the absence of the other, like dark being the absence of light, not light's rival. So "opposite" is more about how our minds sort things than a real law of nature or physics. Try to abandon metaphysical dualism, same way you'd abandon a fixed paradigm in magick, and see things in a different perspective.

 

[Spiritual doctor]

There is no rules. If you think in a certain way, why would chaos magick (psychological paradigm) work and "spirit" magick (spiritual paradigm) also work? If you start to use logic on magick you will be able to reduce it to its essence, belief itself, not some objective law "out there." Same thing happens when you apply logic to dualism, this idea that everything in the universe has an opposite. Science doesn't back this up: in physics, charge is a spectrum from negative to positive with zero right in the middle, not two rival forces; temperature is just molecular motion, so "cold" isn't a thing fighting "hot," it's just less energy, meaning "cold" doesn't technically exist as its own entity; even matter and antimatter aren't opposites in the poetic sense, they're mirror states that annihilate into energy when they meet, not eternal rivals locked in balance. And not every "thing" in the universe has an opposite, some things exist on their own, like a rock or a number. What sound like opposites are usually two ends of a scale, or one is really just the absence of the other, like dark being the absence of light, not light's rival. So "opposite" is more about how our minds sort things than a real law of nature or physics. Try to abandon metaphysical dualism, same way you'd abandon a fixed paradigm in magick, and see things in a different perspect

There is no rules. If you think in a certain way, why would chaos magick (psychological paradigm) work and "spirit" magick (spiritual paradigm) also work? If you start to use logic on magick you will be able to reduce it to its essence, belief itself, not some objective law "out there." Same thing happens when you apply logic to dualism, this idea that everything in the universe has an opposite. Science doesn't back this up: in physics, charge is a spectrum from negative to positive with zero right in the middle, not two rival forces; temperature is just molecular motion, so "cold" isn't a thing fighting "hot," it's just less energy, meaning "cold" doesn't technically exist as its own entity; even matter and antimatter aren't opposites in the poetic sense, they're mirror states that annihilate into energy when they meet, not eternal rivals locked in balance. And not every "thing" in the universe has an opposite, some things exist on their own, like a rock or a number. What sound like opposites are usually two ends of a scale, or one is really just the absence of the other, like dark being the absence of light, not light's rival. So "opposite" is more about how our minds sort things than a real law of nature or physics. Try to abandon metaphysical dualism, same way you'd abandon a fixed paradigm in magick, and see things in a different perspective

If chaos and legion encounter who will win what i mean legion is a system gathered and assembled thing according to rule so who will win if gathered and assemble thing face the chaos one or the separated selfs?

 

[Yazata]

Split off from

The Arbatel - Pre-work and preparations and modifications

Hello all of you interesting folks. Through the various strange turns of life I have become interested in the Arbatel. I have had other projects but am currently reading it (Joseph H. Peterson translation) and plan to read it again more slowly in the future. I had originally been excited to read...

wizardforums.com

 

[Toz_]

If chaos and legion encounter who will win what i mean legion is a system gathered and assembled thing according to rule so who will win if gathered and assemble thing face the chaos one or the separated selfs?

There is no fight to referee here. If chaos and legion is both just paradigms, ways a mind organize belief, then asking who win is like asking does addition beat subtraction, it don't make sense cuz neither one is an agent with fists to swing. You gave legion and chaos a body and a will they don't have, that's the mistake, you turned a method into a soldier.

And notice this question just bring back the same dualism I already tore apart in the last post. I said opposites ain't really rivals locked in eternal balance, charge ain't hot fighting cold, matter and antimatter just annihilate not "battle" each other. So why now you asking who wins between chaos and order like they two armies on a field?

Also "win" is not defined so the question is empty. Win means produce better result, win means last longer, win means dominate the other paradigm in your head? You never say, so whatever answer someone give you they just picking the definition that make their side win, that's not logic that's just choosing the outcome first then backfilling the reason.

And the setup itself already assume the answer: you say legion is "gathered and assembled according to rule" like that automatically make it stronger, but that's the exact thing you supposed to prove not something you get to assume for free. That's circular, you asking a question that already contain its own conclusion hidden inside.

Last thing, you mixing three different "chaos" and calling it one word. Chaos as a magickal paradigm (belief based, psychological), chaos as cosmic primordial state, and legion as a specific mythic entity, these ain't the same register, so the question is really three questions wearing one costume, no wonder it got no clean answer.

Real answer if you strip the fallacy: nothing win cuz nothing is fighting. Structure and non-structure is just two lenses a practitioner pick up depending on what they trying to do, one lens don't beat the other, you just put one down and pick up the other one when it useful.

 

[leodaleius]

real spiritual doctors will say what spiritual doctor said, anyone can do chaos magic, not everyone can do magic magic magic, (more like no one unless he not necessarily only human)

 

[Spiritual doctor]

There is no fight to referee here. If chaos and legion is both just paradigms, ways a mind organize belief, then asking who win is like asking does addition beat subtraction, it don't make sense cuz neither one is an agent with fists to swing. You gave legion and chaos a body and a will they don't have, that's the mistake, you turned a method into a soldier.

And notice this question just bring back the same dualism I already tore apart in the last post. I said opposites ain't really rivals locked in eternal balance, charge ain't hot fighting cold, matter and antimatter just annihilate not "battle" each other. So why now you asking who wins between chaos and order like they two armies on a field?

Also "win" is not defined so the question is empty. Win means produce better result, win means last longer, win means dominate the other paradigm in your head? You never say, so whatever answer someone give you they just picking the definition that make their side win, that's not logic that's just choosing the outcome first then backfilling the reason.

And the setup itself already assume the answer: you say legion is "gathered and assembled according to rule" like that automatically make it stronger, but that's the exact thing you supposed to prove not something you get to assume for free. That's circular, you asking a question that already contain its own conclusion hidden inside.

Last thing, you mixing three different "chaos" and calling it one word. Chaos as a magickal paradigm (belief based, psychological), chaos as cosmic primordial state, and legion as a specific mythic entity, these ain't the same register, so the question is really three questions wearing one costume, no wonder it got no clean answer.

Real answer if you strip the fallacy: nothing win cuz nothing is fighting. Structure and non-structure is just two lenses a practitioner pick up depending on what they trying to do, one lens don't beat the other, you just put one down and pick up the other one when it useful.

I respect your idea but i do not believe in your idea called "no rule" because you follow one of the rule of magic called "belief " with the cover name chaos but you follow only the first rule alone and ignore the other rules of magic. So how one can hope full result of magic from system which follow only one rule and ignore the others rules of magic?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

real spiritual doctors will say what spiritual doctor said, anyone can do chaos magic, not everyone can do magic magic magic, (more like no one unless he not necessarily only human)

Chaos magic is "magic magic magic". Magical systems are tools, and the only reason there is an argument in this thread is that there are people thinking that their tools are the thing itself.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:11 PM

I respect your idea but i do not believe in your idea called "no rule" because you follow one of the rule of magic called "belief " with the cover name chaos but you follow only the first rule alone and ignore the other rules of magic. So how one can hope full result of magic from system which follow only one rule and ignore the others rules of magic?

This makes no sense. If you consider there to be only one rule of magic, then there are no other rules to ignore.
What the arguments about all these different systems throws into sharp relief, is that no-one knows how magic works - only how their system works.

 

[Toz_]

I respect your idea but i do not believe in your idea called "no rule" because you follow one of the rule of magic called "belief " with the cover name chaos but you follow only the first rule alone and ignore the other rules of magic. So how one can hope full result of magic from system which follow only one rule and ignore the others rules of magic?

Respect you saying that but there's a mix up here. you calling "belief is the mechanism" a rule I "follow," but that's not what I said. I never said "belief" is a commandment I obey, I said it's the actual gears turning under any paradigm, spirit magick or chaos magick same thing, belief just the engine either way. That's a description of how the thing work, not a rule like "abstain before ritual" or "use dusk chalk." You turning a description into a prescription, that's a category mistake, like calling gravity "a rule Newton follows" instead of just how objects behave whether Newton believe in it or not.

So "you only follow one rule and ignore the others" don't land, cuz I ain't picking belief out a rulebook and skipping the rest, I'm saying belief is what's actually happening underneath whatever rulebook anybody using, including the Septenaries and whatever else. Saying "no objective law out there" ain't the same as "no rule exist period," it's saying the rules people write down (Septenaries, oppositions, purity laws) are constructed frameworks, useful maybe, but not carved into the universe like gravity is.

Also this whole question assume there's a fixed checklist of "rules of magic" out there and if you skip any of em you can't get "full result." But that's exactly the thing that's unproven, same problem as the chaos vs legion question. You asserting a complete rulebook exist and I'm failing it, without ever showing the rulebook real or complete in the first place. That's not a counter argument, that's just restating your premise like it already win.

And "how can you hope for full result" is loaded too, cuz "full result" compared to what baseline? Nobody defined what full result even mean, so the question already assume there's a maximum score card for magic that we both suppose to be measuring against. Show me that scorecard first, then we can talk about who's ignoring what.

---
But to let clear. I'm just trying apply logic to the practice and used chaos magick as an example.

 

[ewiz]

I don't think we're anywhere near figuring out some universal set of rules for how all this works. It may not even be possible to do so. What matters is that it does work. Whether you're a chaos magician, a tribal shaman, or a christian priest, your magic can be equally effective. One isn't objectively more effective than another, but they can be subjectively better or worse, very much so. The only way you can learn what works better for you subjectively is not from the armchair, it's from within the circle. I always try to recommend people start practicing as soon as possible, because you learn so much more from doing the work than you do from reading and thinking about how it works.

 

[Firetree]

A total misinterpretation . 'Theory' ... not 'rules' .

At a certain stage of development (in some Orders ) they want to gauge your level of development ( this usually comes at some later advanced stage ) so far and want to see , or suggest you 'get together ' or some even want a thesis on

Your magical theory of the Universe . That is how YOU operate within your own system in relation to the physical world and its energies . It should have its own internal validity reason and logic and be self-supporting . But of course not all are the same .

So any one set of rules for magick or the magicians universe is something that comes from 'outside of an advanced magical perspective '. Even physicists note the Universe has varied 'rules' due to changes in; observation , temperature , EM fields and gravity .

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:13 PM

My goal is not about invoking barbaric name and drawing sigils only but the goal is getting the desired result so to get the desired result you must follow real magic rules not rules of magical philosophies because philosophy have no end there are thousands philosopher rises in each magical generations so follow the rules of real magic that equal to the rule of universe. Every things in universe have its opposite you can not mix purity with dirtiness both have their own laws and they both have different application according to the law of universe.

Can you explain 'dirtiness' and 'purity' according to the 'laws of the Universe ' ?