Golden Dawn Self Initiation Question

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Hi all, Ave,

In reading through and speaking through the initiation rituals from The Golden Dawn 7th Ed (with pieces on a chessboard and following along with what I have as tools), I have a question.
We have the name Temple of the Order Stella Matutina, we also have the motto, Name, and name of the temple.

Are Stella Matutina and any name workable for an astral initiation?

I am working through simultaneously Kabbalah, Magic and the Great Work of Self-Transformation, and Candle Magick: A Spellbook for Good and Evil. Christopher's book calls for references within The Golden Dawn.

Thanks in advance, Care,

Nocte Ac Die, aka Nightside, Diluculo, Delfuego.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I’m not criticizing you, it’s just that every post is the same shit

you make everything to be so complicated, you could choose one spirit, make an altar and speak to them via the cards, or Find someone to read for you

instead you make everything so complicated, everything has to be, I must summon 72 angels, I must join this super secret thing, you start by establishing a connection, then...they will open up to you bit by bit

IMO, a lot of this is a way of learning mental mastery, that’s why so much of it is symbolic. I think trying to enter into a lodge without a teacher is eh, I don’t get the point.

Well, it's entirely symbolic. It is possible and likely that one fundamental point keeps.being missed. It's exactly like that with me with math as an example.

I will try a dedicated altar. Part of what I wanted to do with My Celtic Adventure anyway.

I could go the route of others and be a goetic master. Or a divination master. I'm simply trying to master the content of books.

As a fan of anthropology, particularly that of anthropology of religion, and in the tradition of working a grimoire, what I am doing is absolutely crucial.

 

[Öwnchef]

I was never part of an order. Then again, after 25 years of intense studies of magic et. al. I was contacted by their leadership. For help. First was the OTO, then TOTO, Dutch Freemasons, Dragon Rouge. FS, IOT, that list has no end. The following 25 years were filled with that. My knowledge grew fast, because on that level I got pure truth and a profound inside view for my help.

All that time I had no teacher. I became one myself but I never had one. But without the last 25 years I would still be a magical question mark. So that is me. I can't tell for others.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

And for the demonolaters on here, the same could be said if you studied Koettings O.A.A. Flame Discourses, and tried to plug into a current. He provided that with the sorcerer's seal and the assigned Knight-Baron. Or go the route of goetia, and make a friendship. Or say Temple.of Ascending Flame, same deal.
How all the masters on here plugged in is beyond me until the good replies here.

 

[Mider2009]

No idea what you’re talking about

you're doing magic so I’m wondering what you expect to happen. If you expect to start seeing spirits I don’t think that’s going to happen.

that’s why I’m very confused, you’re trying to be initiated, soooo how will you know if and when you are? why aren’t you asking the spirits questions then doing tarot readings

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I think symbolism

No idea what you’re talking about

you're doing magic so I’m wondering what you expect to happen. If you expect to start seeing spirits I don’t think that’s going to happen.

that’s why I’m very confused, you’re trying to be initiated, soooo how will you know if and when you are? why aren’t you asking the spirits questions then doing tarot readings

My bet is a large share of symbols sinking in and astral initiations are occurring.
I'm going by the book, because I'm trying to instill integrity in myself.
It's true, you can be in a lodge and get initiated and know on the spot. It does not say anything on spirits. Read the book dude.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

No idea what you’re talking about

you're doing magic so I’m wondering what you expect to happen. If you expect to start seeing spirits I don’t think that’s going to happen.

that’s why I’m very confused, you’re trying to be initiated, soooo how will you know if and when you are? why aren’t you asking the spirits questions then doing tarot readings

I see your points.
Well, that's the point. I'm not you. If spirits aren't beating down my door to talk with them, and even then what spirits are we talking about, if they're not beating down my door then a lengthy adventure there?
According to some, my tarot reading blows. How them will I get reliable answers.
Through the spirits, right?
How did the greats such as Barrett and Agrippa come to be? Did they have teachers? Or were they self made?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

We can place it in any context. If I were to go LHP, Koettings OAA would be my first start. Even then, the question of how do I know I get initiated, well 8f a Baron, HGD or HGA show eventually on time for adepthood, then I'd say I was initiated.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I have my name, motto, temple name and current ( that I regularly exchange energy with after a Middle Pillar Ritual ).
So I think this question has been answered, and the replies were welcomed, accepted and appreciated.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I see your points.
Well, that's the point. I'm not you. If spirits aren't beating down my door to talk with them, and even then what spirits are we talking about, if they're not beating down my door then a lengthy adventure there?
According to some, my tarot reading blows. How them will I get reliable answers.
Through the spirits, right?
How did the greats such as Barrett and Agrippa come to be? Did they have teachers? Or were they self made?

So were Barrett, Agrippa and Levi self mad or not @Vandheer ?

 

[Vandheer]

So were Barrett, Agrippa and Levi self mad or not @Vandheer ?

Only you homie

 

[Mider2009]

I think symbolism

My bet is a large share of symbols sinking in and astral initiations are occurring.
I'm going by the book, because I'm trying to instill integrity in myself.
It's true, you can be in a lodge and get initiated and know on the spot. It does not say anything on spirits. Read the book dude.

I don’t do whatever you're doing, I’m not interested in initiating into GD

your tarot isn’t terrible you simply need to simply it, you need to see what pops out to you and put that in the reading.

You still haven’t said how you’ll know you’re initiated...

my advice is get a friend who can read cards with you or scrye and ask them what the spirits have to say.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

You're initiated according to the book, if you do what it says. Analysis of ritual. Construction and use of Enochian tablets. Construction and use of tools. Daily meditation and ritual.
How you know is based on how well you do the work.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I was never part of an order. Then again, after 25 years of intense studies of magic et. al. I was contacted by their leadership. For help. First was the OTO, then TOTO, Dutch Freemasons, Dragon Rouge. FS, IOT, that list has no end. The following 25 years were filled with that. My knowledge grew fast, because on that level I got pure truth and a profound inside view for my help.

All that time I had no teacher. I became one myself but I never had one. But without the last 25 years I would still be a magical question mark. So that is me. I can't tell for others.

See, this is what the question is about, and reducing the claim that one must be effective only if part of any particular order, lodge or coven.

 

[Öwnchef]

I WAS somehow part of them. Never joined, though. Then again, I guided over thirty individuals across the Abyss to High Magic, several to the grade of a Magus. You need no order and no teacher, just someone who knows.
Most "teachers" out there don't. They just sadistically enjoy bashing people. But have no clue themselves.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

What exactly is the abyss? I've heard of or read references to a three headed dragon and a seven headed dragon occupying it. And how does one get out of the abyss?

 

[Öwnchef]

There is no path from the Adeptus Exemptus to the Magister Templi. That is why the Rosicrucians stop there. The missing path is called The Abyss.

 

[Mider2009]

You know what gets me about you, people give you good advice, you ignore it, then weeks and months later you come back crying about your failures

this week you think yoyre going to become an adept because the book said you will. You’ll be an adept even though you post beginner questions almost daily.

What also annoys me about you, is you ask these questions, again you’re given answers, you don’t like the answer and suddenly start talking like you're an expert. How far is your head up your ass that you’ve been doing this for years and still haven’t got a clue?

 

[Vandheer]

You know what gets me about you, people give you good advice, you ignore it, then weeks and months later you come back crying about your failures

this week you think yoyre going to become an adept because the book said you will. You’ll be an adept even though you post beginner questions almost daily.

What also annoys me about you, is you ask these questions, again you’re given answers, you don’t like the answer and suddenly start talking like you're an expert. How far is your head up your ass that you’ve been doing this for years and still haven’t got a clue?

If I was you I would save my breath. His constant attention seeking behavior is tilting I know. But trying to make him see reason is harder than making a donkey talk in fluent English.

Nevermind Golden Dawn being an outdated, overly-complex, annoying system. Someone who doesn't have a spine of jellyfish would either become an adept in this system or would simply quit since if it doesn't work for them.

But Fuego is motivated to fail. He will just call you a critique despite you and tens of people like you, me included, has given him proper advice.

He will ever chase his own tail.

 

[Mider2009]

If I was you I would save my breath. His constant attention seeking behavior is tilting I know. But trying to make him see reason is harder than making a donkey talk in fluent English.

Nevermind Golden Dawn being an outdated, overly-complex, annoying system. Someone who doesn't have a spine of jellyfish would either become an adept in this system or would simply quit since if it doesn't work for them.

But Fuego is motivated to fail. He will just call you a critique despite you and tens of people like you, me included, has given him proper advice.

He will ever chase his own tail.

I just don’t get it, why ask then blow it off.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

You know what gets me about you, people give you good advice, you ignore it, then weeks and months later you come back crying about your failures

this week you think yoyre going to become an adept because the book said you will. You’ll be an adept even though you post beginner questions almost daily.

What also annoys me about you, is you ask these questions, again you’re given answers, you don’t like the answer and suddenly start talking like you're an expert. How far is your head up your ass that you’ve been doing this for years and still haven’t got a clue?

Okay great one, then become a teacher.