the art of war

[killing raven sun]

if you are unfamiliar with this work you are at a disadvantage, the wisdom in these words applies to all of daily life, not just war, it takes some time to digest these simple statements, this is the kind of information you read continuously until it becomes part of you, all of your work will be easier and more successful to the degree you use these tactics, war is a perfect metaphor for magic, at least the way i do it

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these are a few select instructions


What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.

The last half is literally "one who, conquering, excels in easy conquering." Mei Yao-ch`en says: "He who only sees the obvious, wins his battles with difficulty; he who looks below the surface of things, wins with ease."

​

Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom nor credit for courage.

Tu Mu explains this very well: "Inasmuch as his victories are gained over circumstances that have not come to light, the world as large knows nothing of them, and he wins no reputation for wisdom; inasmuch as the hostile state submits before there has been any bloodshed, he receives no credit for courage."


Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.


Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.


Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight; whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted.


Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.


Appear at points which the enemy must hasten to defend; march swiftly to places where you are not expected.


You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended.


Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is FOREKNOWLEDGE.

 

[8Lou1]

the best defense is offence.

nice too meet you fellow kin. my spirit daughters get that book at the becoming of age. long time since i had a read myself. one of my sport halls exploded so we had to rebuild.

 

[killing raven sun]

spirit daughters?

i just bought a copy for a young girl friend who wants to be a business person, i like to say that business people are basically pirates, so you need to have the proper weapons to plunder successfully

 

[8Lou1]

thats what im saying. dont ever think islam works the same as christianity. for 1 we dont sell nor accept indulgences and we profit from our gain while generating the birth giving process into being.

 

[Ancient]

I picked up a copy at a second hand store last month. An excellent and quick read, one that is easy to refer to. I was surprised at how translatable the passages were to daily life. Keep your shit well maintained and you’re more likely to see success in all endeavours.

the best defense is offence.

And a good defence leaves you well-poised to strike.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Sun Tzu is a great read, particularly if one understands how to apply it via analogy.
I am particularly fond of the quote "All warfare is based on deception." Self deception being the first hurdle (and continuous), of course. File under: "Know your enemy as you know yourself", and so on.

Understanding the "nine types of ground" is particularly useful in forming analogies of situations in magic, IMO. Especially, "death ground", which I think plugs nicely into Castaneda's "using death as an advisor".

But The Art of War also makes a good primer for other nifty bits of military wisdom applied to non-combat conditions. When I served, I was taught from Day 1 (head shaving, boot issuance in the ass) that everything we did, no matter how mundane, is analogous applicable to combat. So, cleaning your quarters, handling paperwork, picking up FOD on the airstrip, even eating food has to have a warrior mentality to it.

On my journey I have picked up some potential T-shirt ideas. I think an analogous imagination can find them useful. We had fun with them in the Corps.

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."

"Don't be afraid of the bullet with your name on it. Worry about the artillery shell labeled "OCCUPANT"

"All battles are fought uphill, at night, in the rain and that junction of four map segments."

On military intelligence: "He knows that I know that he knows that I know..."

"Many intelligence reports in war are contradictory, even more are false and most uncertain."

"There is no avoiding war, it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."

"Never interfere with your enemy while he is making a mistake."

"If we killed the right guy, the enemy would just replace him with another recruit. If we killed the wrong guy, the enemy would get ten recruits."

"Sweat saves blood."

"Courage is fear holding on a minute longer."

 

[8Lou1]

i know in war and love anything goes, nothing stays and killing some ravens sun, ah well....anyways some just dont read and just want to <<hug>> cause well, friends from past lives are friends from past lives. doesnt change the fact that when someone goes 13th warrior on a flying dutchman, i kick his/her ass, spit in his/her water and pi on his/her grave. now bring me some nettle cause strange needs soup and im already stirring.

at least thats the way i do it

 

[killing raven sun]

i am the raven sun, i am killing my self

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

The Art of War is only one book that helps one prosper ....
The Book of Five Rings
The Art of War
The Power of Focus
The Wealth of Nations
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
I'm sure if one were to look at the reading lists of the best business schools in the world, you would find more than four or five titles.

 

[8Lou1]

ugh a japanese raven. at least go phoenix then we can all join in.
and dont even think about going hiroshima, cause the teutonic plates got wood in germany...

 

[stalkinghyena]

It's true Lady Lou, you cannot make that soup without nettles.

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For phoenixes, there is an apparent choice if Lo Mien or Spaghetti - but even though, "I make a noise in East and strike in the West," it is still possible to find all commonality is in noodles.

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[8Lou1]

Stalkinghyena if i was in an arab country id ask you to be my husbands second wife. Damn your cool.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Well if he likes Spaghetti Westerns with swords, I guess I could play Thor in drag, but it could turn out to be 13th warrior, idk

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[killing raven sun]

it is the great paradox that to truly live means to kill the self

laugh all you want, i certainly do, it feels fucking fantastic

 

[stalkinghyena]

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A man goes to knowledge as he goes to war: wide-awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance. Going to knowledge or going to war in any other manner is a mistake, and whoever makes it might never live to regret it. When a man has fulfilled all four of these requisites - to be wide awake, to have fear, respect, and absolute assurance - there are no mistakes for which he will have to account; under such conditions his actions lose the blundering quality of the acts of a fool. If such a man fails, or suffers a defeat, he will have lost only a battle, and there will be no pitiful regrets over that.

 

[Xenophon]

Sun Tzu is a great read, particularly if one understands how to apply it via analogy.
I am particularly fond of the quote "All warfare is based on deception." Self deception being the first hurdle (and continuous), of course. File under: "Know your enemy as you know yourself", and so on.

Understanding the "nine types of ground" is particularly useful in forming analogies of situations in magic, IMO. Especially, "death ground", which I think plugs nicely into Castaneda's "using death as an advisor".

But The Art of War also makes a good primer for other nifty bits of military wisdom applied to non-combat conditions. When I served, I was taught from Day 1 (head shaving, boot issuance in the ass) that everything we did, no matter how mundane, is analogous applicable to combat. So, cleaning your quarters, handling paperwork, picking up FOD on the airstrip, even eating food has to have a warrior mentality to it.

On my journey I have picked up some potential T-shirt ideas. I think an analogous imagination can find them useful. We had fun with them in the Corps.

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."

"Don't be afraid of the bullet with your name on it. Worry about the artillery shell labeled "OCCUPANT"

"All battles are fought uphill, at night, in the rain and that junction of four map segments."

On military intelligence: "He knows that I know that he knows that I know..."

"Many intelligence reports in war are contradictory, even more are false and most uncertain."

"There is no avoiding war, it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."

"Never interfere with your enemy while he is making a mistake."

"If we killed the right guy, the enemy would just replace him with another recruit. If we killed the wrong guy, the enemy would get ten recruits."

"Sweat saves blood."

"Courage is fear holding on a minute longer."

One might add:
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you used poor tactics."
"Given the choice of A or B, the enemy invariably chooses C."
"Cage even a roasted chicken."

 

[8Lou1]

xenophon, you really flow nice. i think this song might fit this topic as well:

 

[stalkinghyena]

"Cage even a roasted chicken."

I figure since KRS committed seppuku it was better to just switch to Youtube:

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flow nice

I'm told above "to live is to kill the self" and it feels "fucking fantastic". Am I still part of the harem?

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[KYleBALION]

"fart on your enemies head" - Sun Tzu, joke he didn't say that ofc.

Some basics: Deception is key. If you're weak, appear strong, If your strong, appear weak.
I think most western Nations will never, ever understand fully what is in this text.

"To win without fighting is best."
- Sun Tzu

i would put him in the top ten warriors of all time,
his strategies ,the ultimate tactician knowledge forged over centuries, remains until this very day.

 

[stalkinghyena]

I think most western Nations will never, ever understand fully what is in this text.

Looking back at history, one could pose the question of whether Eastern nations (or any other) will ever fully understand either. There is a myth an allure to Sun Tzu which I think has been overplayed somewhat. He may not have existed at all, and what we have is just a polished body of typical military theory, which can also be found in Western writings, though not expressed with such Taoist inspired grace. I have a digest of ancient Chinese military strategists and intelligence writers who could be quite critical of some of the technical approaches in the Art of War. But this reflects the essential uncertainty that is war, which Sun Tzu aptly expressed.

"To win without fighting is best."
- Sun Tzu

There is a certain assumption of omnipotence and omniscience to this statement which has seldom, if ever, manifested in war or statecraft. I treat it like almost like Zen koan.
I've even come across folks who think that somehow it implies pacifism, which is absurd. In some sense it is the wisdom of a python in the process of squeezing something to death, and this is universal formula of governments with long term views of hegemony. But it is a dangerous game - as soon as a state achieves empire, it is in the process of disintegrating, so war must be integrated into its ecology or else it becomes lax, negligent and fragile, to collapse in the end.
This can be applied as an analogy to the individual "Will to Power", which is why many seek to read The Art of War.