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the art of war

Xenophon

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Looking back at history, one could pose the question of whether Eastern nations (or any other) will ever fully understand either. There is a myth an allure to Sun Tzu which I think has been overplayed somewhat. He may not have existed at all, and what we have is just a polished body of typical military theory, which can also be found in Western writings, though not expressed with such Taoist inspired grace. I have a digest of ancient Chinese military strategists and intelligence writers who could be quite critical of some of the technical approaches in the Art of War. But this reflects the essential uncertainty that is war, which Sun Tzu aptly expressed.


There is a certain assumption of omnipotence and omniscience to this statement which has seldom, if ever, manifested in war or statecraft. I treat it like almost like Zen koan.
I've even come across folks who think that somehow it implies pacifism, which is absurd. In some sense it is the wisdom of a python in the process of squeezing something to death, and this is universal formula of governments with long term views of hegemony. But it is a dangerous game - as soon as a state achieves empire, it is in the process of disintegrating, so war must be integrated into its ecology or else it becomes lax, negligent and fragile, to collapse in the end.
This can be applied as an analogy to the individual "Will to Power", which is why many seek to read The Art of War.
I always took "win without fighting" in a rather mundane sense: your enemies are scared to fight on one hand and diplomatically outmaneuvered on the other. An empire with no crises greater than border squabbles fits that bill. These have existed fairly often. The problem here is it's hard to write about wars that never began. One can point out how even Rome's Five good Emperors had hostile borders from Parthia to Britain. Or one can point out that, inside those borders, live was peaceful and culture went on apace.

You're right about the pacifist take on Sun Zi. After WW1 Hungary had a go at being a "pacifist republic." Neighbors gobbled up about 2/3 of their territory. Had events played out slightly different, Trotsky's Reds would've scarfed down the rest.
 

8Lou1

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you havent read solzhenitzyn i presume?

'thus it is that no cruelty whatsoever passes without impact. thus it is that we always pay dearly for what is cheap.'

“The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie. "One word of truth outweighs the world.”


'What about the main thing in life, all its riddles? If you want, I'll spell it out for you right now. Do not pursue what is illusionary -property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade, and is confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life -don't be afraid of misfortune, and do not yearn for happiness; it is, after all, all the same: the bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing. It is enough if you don't freeze in the cold and if thirst and hunger don't claw at your insides. If your back isn't broken, if your feet can walk, if both arms can bend, if both eyes can see, if both ears hear, then whom should you envy? And why? Our envy of others devours us most of all. Rub your eyes and purify your heart -and prize above all else in the world those who love you and who wish you well. Do not hurt them or scold them, and never part from any of them in anger; after all, you simply do not know: it may be your last act before your arrest, and that will be how you are imprinted on their memory.'

“One day Dostoevsky threw out the enigmatic remark: "Beauty will save the world". What sort of a statement is that? For a long time I considered it mere words. How could that be possible? When in bloodthirsty history did beauty ever save anyone from anything? Ennobled, uplifted, yes - but whom has it saved?

There is, however, a certain peculiarity in the essence of beauty, a peculiarity in the status of art: namely, the convincingness of a true work of art is completely irrefutable and it forces even an opposing heart to surrender. It is possible to compose an outwardly smooth and elegant political speech, a headstrong article, a social program, or a philosophical system on the basis of both a mistake and a lie. What is hidden, what distorted, will not immediately become obvious.

Then a contradictory speech, article, program, a differently constructed philosophy rallies in opposition - and all just as elegant and smooth, and once again it works. Which is why such things are both trusted and mistrusted.

In vain to reiterate what does not reach the heart.

But a work of art bears within itself its own verification: conceptions which are devised or stretched do not stand being portrayed in images, they all come crashing down, appear sickly and pale, convince no one. But those works of art which have scooped up the truth and presented it to us as a living force - they take hold of us, compel us, and nobody ever, not even in ages to come, will appear to refute them.

So perhaps that ancient trinity of Truth, Goodness and Beauty is not simply an empty, faded formula as we thought in the days of our self-confident, materialistic youth? If the tops of these three trees converge, as the scholars maintained, but the too blatant, too direct stems of Truth and Goodness are crushed, cut down, not allowed through - then perhaps the fantastic, unpredictable, unexpected stems of Beauty will push through and soar to that very same place, and in so doing will fulfil the work of all three?

In that case Dostoevsky's remark, "Beauty will save the world", was not a careless phrase but a prophecy? After all he was granted to see much, a man of fantastic illumination.

And in that case art, literature might really be able to help the world today?”



anyways, hes a very boring read every book going nowhere and 1000s of pages long. a rich dude selling poverty as truth. and if you dont agree you go camping russian syle till you agree or are death. i told you, you remind me of nikita. ;)

 

Xenophon

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you havent read solzhenitzyn i presume?

'thus it is that no cruelty whatsoever passes without impact. thus it is that we always pay dearly for what is cheap.'

“The simple step of a courageous individual is not to take part in the lie. "One word of truth outweighs the world.”


'What about the main thing in life, all its riddles? If you want, I'll spell it out for you right now. Do not pursue what is illusionary -property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade, and is confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life -don't be afraid of misfortune, and do not yearn for happiness; it is, after all, all the same: the bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing. It is enough if you don't freeze in the cold and if thirst and hunger don't claw at your insides. If your back isn't broken, if your feet can walk, if both arms can bend, if both eyes can see, if both ears hear, then whom should you envy? And why? Our envy of others devours us most of all. Rub your eyes and purify your heart -and prize above all else in the world those who love you and who wish you well. Do not hurt them or scold them, and never part from any of them in anger; after all, you simply do not know: it may be your last act before your arrest, and that will be how you are imprinted on their memory.'

“One day Dostoevsky threw out the enigmatic remark: "Beauty will save the world". What sort of a statement is that? For a long time I considered it mere words. How could that be possible? When in bloodthirsty history did beauty ever save anyone from anything? Ennobled, uplifted, yes - but whom has it saved?

There is, however, a certain peculiarity in the essence of beauty, a peculiarity in the status of art: namely, the convincingness of a true work of art is completely irrefutable and it forces even an opposing heart to surrender. It is possible to compose an outwardly smooth and elegant political speech, a headstrong article, a social program, or a philosophical system on the basis of both a mistake and a lie. What is hidden, what distorted, will not immediately become obvious.

Then a contradictory speech, article, program, a differently constructed philosophy rallies in opposition - and all just as elegant and smooth, and once again it works. Which is why such things are both trusted and mistrusted.

In vain to reiterate what does not reach the heart.

But a work of art bears within itself its own verification: conceptions which are devised or stretched do not stand being portrayed in images, they all come crashing down, appear sickly and pale, convince no one. But those works of art which have scooped up the truth and presented it to us as a living force - they take hold of us, compel us, and nobody ever, not even in ages to come, will appear to refute them.

So perhaps that ancient trinity of Truth, Goodness and Beauty is not simply an empty, faded formula as we thought in the days of our self-confident, materialistic youth? If the tops of these three trees converge, as the scholars maintained, but the too blatant, too direct stems of Truth and Goodness are crushed, cut down, not allowed through - then perhaps the fantastic, unpredictable, unexpected stems of Beauty will push through and soar to that very same place, and in so doing will fulfil the work of all three?

In that case Dostoevsky's remark, "Beauty will save the world", was not a careless phrase but a prophecy? After all he was granted to see much, a man of fantastic illumination.

And in that case art, literature might really be able to help the world today?”



anyways, hes a very boring read every book going nowhere and 1000s of pages long. a rich dude selling poverty as truth. and if you dont agree you go camping russian syle till you agree or are death. i told you, you remind me of nikita. ;)

Who is the "you" here who didn't read Solzhenitsyn? "August 1914" was great stuff. "The First Circle," ditto. Even "Lenin in Zurich." As for Dostoyevski's "Beauty will save the world," probably true. Only I venture that Dostoyevsky's idea of beauty is degenerate. He seems unable to conceive of uplift without without the toxic Nazarene cocktail of weakness and wretchedness adulterated into the mix.

In the vein of, "one word of truth &c" there is Andrew Jackson's, "One courageous man makes a majority."
 

stalkinghyena

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Who is "you"? Who is everybody?

I confess my ignorance of many things. This I did study, in the manner of a peasant who stops in the midst of his work and ponders in reflection - "And there was a war in Heaven":
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That yarn. I think I could use a shirt but then a demon whispers in my ear: "Ye shall love peace as a means to new wars - the short peace more than the long."

For real? Oh, but there are bills to pay. Schedules, structures, revolutions, etc.

"Beauty shall save the world" - maybe the only reason a "world" exists at all. Good shot, Lou - you're a sniper.

If I go for a stroll and another demon whispers in my ear that I have to live my life over and over again, would I think that he is a god or the reincarnation of General Patton?
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Xenophon

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Who is "you"? Who is everybody?

I confess my ignorance of many things. This I did study, in the manner of a peasant who stops in the midst of his work and ponders in reflection - "And there was a war in Heaven":
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



That yarn. I think I could use a shirt but then a demon whispers in my ear: "Ye shall love peace as a means to new wars - the short peace more than the long."

For real? Oh, but there are bills to pay. Schedules, structures, revolutions, etc.

"Beauty shall save the world" - maybe the only reason a "world" exists at all. Good shot, Lou - you're a sniper.

If I go for a stroll and another demon whispers in my ear that I have to live my life over and over again, would I think that he is a god or the reincarnation of General Patton?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
A god or the reincarnation of Patton? Why not both? Ol' George was about due for apotheosis, at least by his own reckoning.

When I wrote "you," I just meant to ask whether the post I quoted was aimed at a particular individual or was it a blanket use of "you."
 

Amadan

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The Art of War, The Book of Five Rings, and The Tao Te Ching are all sublime.
 

Xenophon

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Personally, I always find myself quoting Carl von Clausewitz. Profound in places without the air of enigma.
 

8Lou1

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my best book has always been psyche from louis couperus. i wasnt even allowed to write a paper about it for my exams, cause the teacher said in his own very words: that book is too difficult to understand for teachers..... i think i read it when i was about 8 or somethin, loved it back then and im still in love with it. the teacher was right yah know...
 
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