Saturn and Satan

[motzfeldt]

So is Saturn the (a) devil or not? I see some people feel strongly about this; in that one group vehemently denies such a thing and they maintain that Saturn is nothing more than the pagan Roman god and astrological correspondence. I see the other group claim that Saturn is Satan as he appeared to the Romans, but is Satan to the Christians, is Moloch to the Hebrews, Sani to the Hindus, Zuhal to the pre-Islamic Arabs, etc.

I think there's a good argument that can be made. If we take "Satan" to mean that primordial chaos manifest in its different guises and Saturn as a god belonging to that primordial chaos (or the Titans in Greco-Roman myth), well we can see a lot of overlap. Not to mention both are associated with time and death. For what it's worth, there are plenty of open Satanists who identify Saturn with Satan.

Ultimately I'm not sure though but the Saturnine entity is one that has always fascinated me. Curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[Yazata]

I forget the other name at the moment, but Saturn was known as the announcer of winter - in all things. So the season where most plants (appear to) die.
If the Sun is life = God it could be stretched to say that Saturn = death = the devil.
I personally don't think he is Satan, just like Set (the Egyptian) or Seth (the Hebrew) isn't Satan.

 

[KjEno186]

Saturday, literally Saturn-day, is one of the days of the week. The Saturnian influence may seem ominous, even harsh to many, but that doesn't mean it is the same as Satan. The only "Satan" I can accept by that name is the one in the Bible as translated into English, because it has the cultural egregore of its meaning behind it as found in the words of the Bible. All other meanings are appropriations of the word for marketing purposes (purveyors of novel notions, filling old wine skins with new wine). Satan in the Bible is the malicious prosecutor who accuses the innocent of crimes, often tempting them so as to justify his decidedly un-just motives.

Saturn, on the other hand, is part of the creation, integral to the cycles of our Solar system. Perhaps fundamentalist Christians see all things that are not [their] Jesus-God-&-the-Holy-Spirit as "the enemy" and therefore part and parcel of "Satan and his demons", but I would hope occultists are more knowledgeable than that.

 

[Romolo]

Agree with Kjeno, the conflation is pure accidental. Satan the “adversary“ or the opposer. and Saturn the “(never) saturated”, linked to “seed”, giver of life, sowing time, but also devouring it again.

 

[Aeternus]

It is only defined in parts of Qlipoth that Saturn is Satan. That is all.

Saturn, aside from Qlipoth, represents the process of maturization within time.

Saturn has a lot of positive aspects, including the one of excellent memory in combination with Jupiter energies.

My Guardian Archangel (Leuviah) rules over the planet Saturn, for example, and he helps me with being mature and gain knowledge with each passing time.

And time itself, related to Saturn is the essence of all the history and being. Without the metaphysical concepts of time, would we exist? Not even close.

 

[Xenophon]

It is only defined in parts of Qlipoth that Saturn is Satan. That is all.

Saturn, aside from Qlipoth, represents the process of maturization within time.

Saturn has a lot of positive aspects, including the one of excellent memory in combination with Jupiter energies.

My Guardian Archangel (Leuviah) rules over the planet Saturn, for example, and he helps me with being mature and gain knowledge with each passing time.

And time itself, related to Saturn is the essence of all the history and being. Without the metaphysical concepts of time, would we exist? Not even close.

On the Tree of Wyrd, used by some groups, Saturn is explicitly not identified with Satan. Saturn is identified with the chief male deity (whose name varies depending on the group). Satan is characterized as the entity governing the 3rd Path, that between Luna and Mercury. Such groups consider Satan the deity assigned to affairs impinging on earth.

Post automatically merged: May 24, 2024

On the Tree of Wyrd, used by some groups, Saturn is explicitly not identified with Satan. Saturn is identified with the chief male deity (whose name varies depending on the group). Satan is characterized as the entity governing the 3rd Path, that between Luna and Mercury. Such groups consider Satan the deity assigned to affairs impinging on earth.

As to "the Devil," if you mean "adversary to Adamic creeds," the answer is yes. As to whether this is bad or wrong...well, that's what this whole cosmic contretemps is about, innit?

 

[Baal]

if you look at the sigil of lucifer it looks like the light from the sun falling onto the earth.

 

[Wintruz]

I see no connection between the two on the basis of their traditional characteristics.

The oldest sources have Satan as a Master of Māyā; a tempter and a trickster, who rules the world and is able to give it (Matthew 4, 2 Corinthians 4:4). His pre-Fall Luciferian manifestations are traditionally connected with music, beauty and wisdom. In these modes, he's closer to Apollo or Bacchus than Saturn. Saturn has some qualities in common with Satan (wealth, role-reversal, etc.) but he equally has many qualities in common with Yahweh (the "elder", time, austerity, etc.) and, crucially, was a usurped god, not a usurper.

Satan and Saturn represent different principles within two separate mythological traditions. The Abrahamic tradition takes the panorama of life, claims the good for God and attributes the bad to Satan (or his influence). As polytheists, the Romans stratified the phenomena of life, both good and bad, across numerous principles. Like the Greeks, the Romans were obsessed with finding religious correspondences between cultures, yet, despite being the seat of universal Christian conversion, no Roman scholars equated Satan with their old god Saturn.

Correspondences between cultures can, in very limited circumstances, reveal some truths. However, the modern occult idea that all mythologies can be neatly shoehorned into the Tree of Life by tracing their correspondences, has no basis in history or reality.

 

[Xenophon]

I see no connection between the two on the basis of their traditional characteristics.

The oldest sources have Satan as a Master of Māyā; a tempter and a trickster, who rules the world and is able to give it (Matthew 4, 2 Corinthians 4:4). His pre-Fall Luciferian manifestations are traditionally connected with music, beauty and wisdom. In these modes, he's closer to Apollo or Bacchus than Saturn. Saturn has some qualities in common with Satan (wealth, role-reversal, etc.) but he equally has many qualities in common with Yahweh (the "elder", time, austerity, etc.) and, crucially, was a usurped god, not a usurper.

Satan and Saturn represent different principles within two separate mythological traditions. The Abrahamic tradition takes the panorama of life, claims the good for God and attributes the bad to Satan (or his influence). As polytheists, the Romans stratified the phenomena of life, both good and bad, across numerous principles. Like the Greeks, the Romans were obsessed with finding religious correspondences between cultures, yet, despite being the seat of universal Christian conversion, no Roman scholars equated Satan with their old god Saturn.

Correspondences between cultures can, in very limited circumstances, reveal some truths. However, the modern occult idea that all mythologies can be neatly shoehorned into the Tree of Life by tracing their correspondences, has no basis in history or reality.

Indeed, the old adjective "saturnine" was applied to dour 'n gouty old farts. Quite the antithesis to Satan as commonly conceived.

Shoehorn all occult traditions into the Tree of Life (so-called)? Why not? The creed which co-opted the Tree of old are the great co-opters of entire civilizations.

 

[pixel_fortune]

If we take "Satan" to mean that primordial chaos manifest in its different guises and Saturn as a god belonging to that primordial chaos

I don't know enough about Satan to say whether that's an accurate description of Satan, but it doesn't fit well to Saturn

Primordial chaos is formless and unbounded: Saturn's main deal is limitations, structure and boundaries

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Is this thread... based on them almost being spelled the same...?

 

[Aeternus]

Is this thread... based on them almost being spelled the same...?

More like, the confusion that is created because certain Kaballah texts see Saturn as Satan, but it is more Qlipoth and not Sephira like classification.

That is what is about.

But Satan is not the same with Saturn