Chaos-gnosticism / anti-cosmic Satanism

[motzfeldt]

Just curious what people's thoughts are on the mentioned flavour of occultism. The misanthropy that runs through the practitioners and their works generally puts me off as I am not a hateful nor misanthropic person... but I still find myself very interested in the topic of gnosticism and can't help but read about it. I'm fascinated by the thought of the cyclical destruction and rebirth of the cosmos, which according to chaos-gnostics, will one day be permanent. Similarly by the idea that the state of acausality is the purest state there is and that we are denied this by being "imprisoned" in the cosmos.

Ultimately I don't know enough about it to form a real opinion on it as I have chosen to pursue other paths. I would like to hear people's opinions though. Is the idea of a cosmic demiurge just an easy scapegoat for depressed LHP occultists? Or is there something to it? Also what benefit is there, if any, to seeking anti-cosmic gnosis through chtonic gods of antiquity rather than the traditional Buddhist/Hindu path?

 

[Roma]

Is the idea of a cosmic demiurge just an easy scapegoat for depressed LHP occultists?

Existence is filled with and managed by structured intelligences.

For example, when I first rode a bike I had to concentrate hard on balance - only partly because the roads were covered with ice.

Later that skill became subconscious and my consciousness could deal with other matters such as why I was riding to that place.

Similarly Existence unfolds through acquired skills being delegated to lower intelligences.

Here is Leonardo's depiction of the current Earth demiurge. Note his interaction with a messenger from the dog/wolf star (Sirius).

Note also that the double-headed eagle is used as national signs only in the northern hemisphere. The eagle is double-headed because it looks into the Earth and into the Cosmos simultaneously

 

[Xenophon]

Just curious what people's thoughts are on the mentioned flavour of occultism. The misanthropy that runs through the practitioners and their works generally puts me off as I am not a hateful nor misanthropic person... but I still find myself very interested in the topic of gnosticism and can't help but read about it. I'm fascinated by the thought of the cyclical destruction and rebirth of the cosmos, which according to chaos-gnostics, will one day be permanent. Similarly by the idea that the state of acausality is the purest state there is and that we are denied this by being "imprisoned" in the cosmos.

Ultimately I don't know enough about it to form a real opinion on it as I have chosen to pursue other paths. I would like to hear people's opinions though. Is the idea of a cosmic demiurge just an easy scapegoat for depressed LHP occultists? Or is there something to it? Also what benefit is there, if any, to seeking anti-cosmic gnosis through chtonic gods of antiquity rather than the traditional Buddhist/Hindu path?

There are those who claim that activist misanthropy is really quality-control for the species. Whenever I doubt that, I just take a peek at reality TV or the daily news.

 

[HocusPocus]

Well, at the end of the day.

Look at the Universe and how it's structured, does it seem like it makes life easy? Is it easy for most?

That's I think a pretty good indicator of the higher purpose of life. Which leads me to conclude three endings.

A. ) The Universe enjoys torturing life

B. ) The Universe is neutral and doesn't really care.

C.) There's no higher power.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2024

Well, at the end of the day.

Look at the Universe and how it's structured, does it seem like it makes life easy? Is it easy for most?

That's I think a pretty good indicator of the higher purpose of life. Which leads me to conclude three endings.

A. ) The Universe enjoys torturing life

B. ) The Universe is neutral and doesn't really care.

C.) There's no higher power.

Either of the three endings*

 

[Xenophon]

In "Meet John Doe," Walter Brennan says, "You don't hafta tell me the world's been shaved by a drunken barber." Which notion Lovecraft had already incorporated (more or less) into his hopelessly mad chief god, the piping Atazoth. I won't say that's literal truth, as religious dogma. I will say it's quite an exercise to refute convincingly.

 

[HocusPocus]

In "Meet John Doe," Walter Brennan says, "You don't hafta tell me the world's been shaved by a drunken barber." Which notion Lovecraft had already incorporated (more or less) into his hopelessly mad chief god, the piping Atazoth. I won't say that's literal truth, as religious dogma. I will say it's quite an exercise to refute convincingly.

Lovecraft's God seemed to want to DESTROY MAN-KIND. At least from my brief glimpse, this God seems like a psychotic 12 year old with a piece of glass and we're the ants in his backyards.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Lovecraft's God seemed to want to DESTROY MAN-KIND. At least from my brief glimpse, this God seems like a psychotic 12 year old with a piece of glass and we're the ants in his backyards.

The point about Lovecraft's "gods" was that they don't care about us. We are as insignificant to them as an anthill on a building site. If we get destroyed, it is not because they hate us, it's because we happened to be in the way when they were doing whatever they were doing.

The message is basically "God exists and he doesn't care"

 

[HocusPocus]

The point about Lovecraft's "gods" was that they don't care about us. We are as insignificant to them as an anthill on a building site. If we get destroyed, it is not because they hate us, it's because we happened to be in the way when they were doing whatever they were doing.

The message is basically "God exists and he doesn't care"

Yes, I understand that. Which goes back to my point sounds alot more merciful than whatever we're potentially dealing with in the Eastern Religion.

 

[Xenophon]

Lovecraft's God seemed to want to DESTROY MAN-KIND. At least from my brief glimpse, this God seems like a psychotic 12 year old with a piece of glass and we're the ants in his backyards.

Actually, he has 2 groups of gods. The one bunch would like to destroy; the other doesn't much care. The latter are not merciful, but given the first's attitude, indifference can seem mercy. Hey, Camus wrote of "the benign indifference of the universe."

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2024

Yes, I understand that. Which goes back to my point sounds alot more merciful than whatever we're potentially dealing with in the Eastern Religion.

Ok, but why crave mercy? I'd far rather be in a position to dispense it than ask for it. I'm not sure I could forgive anyone who showed me mercy.

 

[HocusPocus]

Actually, he has 2 groups of gods. The one bunch would like to destroy; the other doesn't much care. The latter are not merciful, but given the first's attitude, indifference can seem mercy. Hey, Camus wrote of "the benign indifference of the universe."

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2024

Ok, but why crave mercy? I'd far rather be in a position to dispense it than ask for it. I'm not sure I could forgive anyone who showed me mercy.

Because it's not about a question of what we'd like if this exists, it's just what we have to deal with essentially. We're the bitches in prison essentially and God is the 6'4 tatted up bunkie who's serving a life sentence and has nothing to lose and we are the fresh meat essentially.

If it wanted to we can all be lost in a horrific inferno right now where would burn until it decides that it's bored.

 

[Wintruz]

Ultimately I don't know enough about it to form a real opinion on it as I have chosen to pursue other paths. I would like to hear people's opinions though. Is the idea of a cosmic demiurge just an easy scapegoat for depressed LHP occultists? Or is there something to it?

Nietzsche once wrote that the more powerless a human became, the uglier the world appeared to them. Conversely, the more powerful the individual became, the more beautiful the world appeared to them. When I consider the cult of ugliness which has attended "anti-cosmic Satanism", I can only conclude that those who subscribe to it must feel very powerless indeed.

I don't. In common with the "transcendental" Western Left Hand Path, my own view is dualistic, that the psyche is made of a different substance than matter. However, I recognise that Life in this strange, beautiful world is a perfect forum to bring about the refinement of the psyche. Even in these ignorant times, there remains enormous beauty in the world. Knowing that all things are transitory doesn't prohibit us from interacting with that beauty, it only makes us aware that we must enjoy it for what it is, while it is. There can even be beauty in letting go when the time comes.

Also what benefit is there, if any, to seeking anti-cosmic gnosis through chtonic gods of antiquity rather than the traditional Buddhist/Hindu path?

None. This reminds me a little of my recent answer on the Qlippoth. There are no benefits to working with retconned, poorly thought through squalor.

Buddhist schools, especially, are a thousand times more likely to lead a person to wisdom, even if practiced in the most pristine, RHP way. In many senses, the Western Left Hand Path shares the same philosophical premises as Buddhism (being and desire, desire and suffering, etc.) though one wishes to retreat from living with those premises into a self-contained stillness, the other engages with them.

What if pleasure and displeasure were so tied together that whoever wanted to have as much as possible of one must also have as much as possible of the other—that whoever wanted to learn to ‘jubilate up to the heavens’ would also have to be prepared for ‘depression unto death’? And that is how things may well be ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[WisdomAddict]

I'm kind of on the same page as you at the same time
I'm looking for a safe exit from this reality to beyond the Veil of material reality

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Actually, he has 2 groups of gods. The one bunch would like to destroy; the other doesn't much care.

I think the first group were added on by August Derleth et al, who wanted to make it a good-old fashioned battle between good and evil.

Post automatically merged: Jun 13, 2024

I'm kind of on the same page as you at the same time
I'm looking for a safe exit from this reality to beyond the Veil of material reality

I don't believe there is a 'beyond the Veil of material reality', despite Pascal's wager, so I may be in the wrong thread

 

[WisdomAddict]

I think the first group were added on by August Derleth et al, who wanted to make it a good-old fashioned battle between good and evil.

Post automatically merged: Jun 13, 2024

I don't believe there is a 'beyond the Veil of material reality', despite Pascal's wager, so I may be in the wrong thread

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This might help a little to having understanding of what I meant,
When I was around 5 I always had this diagram in my head
On the mental and soul level
That's actually intresting and weird...lol

At the same time i was connecting dots between realities discribed both by gnostic and Left hand path stuff
Both agree on the theory of souls being trapped in material universe of demituge and need for liberation that this also sound budhism and even Islamic term and practice of 'unity with god' or godhead, aka the true God aka the source
But a spiritual friend of mine opened another branch on my mental faculties by saying returning to source its just an beginning ! We have not talk on that more furthere
I will write about as soon I know and understand about it

 

[Xenophon]

Because it's not about a question of what we'd like if this exists, it's just what we have to deal with essentially. We're the bitches in prison essentially and God is the 6'4 tatted up bunkie who's serving a life sentence and has nothing to lose and we are the fresh meat essentially.

If it wanted to we can all be lost in a horrific inferno right now where would burn until it decides that it's bored.

That's kind of what I said. There are the malevolent and there are the indifferent. Though the evidence also supports the notion that there are simply indifferent forces, something like people walking around an area with a lot of ants.

Post automatically merged: Jun 14, 2024

I think the first group were added on by August Derleth et al, who wanted to make it a good-old fashioned battle between good and evil.

Post automatically merged: Jun 13, 2024

I don't believe there is a 'beyond the Veil of material reality', despite Pascal's wager, so I may be in the wrong thread

If the guy is looking for what isn't there, you're in the right thread.

One should remember that, as with Muslim women, what's "behind the veil" might be even more unpleasant than what you got at home.

 

[Ilúvatar]

Just curious what people's thoughts are on the mentioned flavour of occultism. The misanthropy that runs through the practitioners and their works generally puts me off as I am not a hateful nor misanthropic person... but I still find myself very interested in the topic of gnosticism and can't help but read about it. I'm fascinated by the thought of the cyclical destruction and rebirth of the cosmos, which according to chaos-gnostics, will one day be permanent. Similarly by the idea that the state of acausality is the purest state there is and that we are denied this by being "imprisoned" in the cosmos.

Ultimately I don't know enough about it to form a real opinion on it as I have chosen to pursue other paths. I would like to hear people's opinions though. Is the idea of a cosmic demiurge just an easy scapegoat for depressed LHP occultists? Or is there something to it? Also what benefit is there, if any, to seeking anti-cosmic gnosis through chtonic gods of antiquity rather than the traditional Buddhist/Hindu path?

I sympathize greatly. I also enjoy reading about these things. The four books by Ekortu, for example, make for good reading imo, even though I don't take that approach and have no plans to. He has some interesting takes on Norse mythology, giving it a gnostic turn (Odin and the gang are the 'bad guys'!) and it's fun to be in that world for awhile.

Benefit to that approach? I wondered myself. I suspect it may make it easier to bear suffering and setbacks and rationalize the world's pain, and it gives a path to work through it, or endure it, or even draw strength from it. Also, at least speaking of Ekortu's books - it seems very non-dogmatic and open-ended as to rituals, compared to traditional Solomonic magic which may be appealing (but maybe that's unfair). I don't know - as with a lot of these paths, it often comes to down to personal taste. (Do you like deep dish pizza or not, youknowhattamean?)

 

[HocusPocus]

That's kind of what I said. There are the malevolent and there are the indifferent. Though the evidence also supports the notion that there are simply indifferent forces, something like people walking around an area with a lot of ants.

Post automatically merged: Jun 14, 2024

If the guy is looking for what isn't there, you're in the right thread.

One should remember that, as with Muslim women, what's "behind the veil" might be even more unpleasant than what you got at home.

Yeah, I was addressing your second point. I don't think I will be given the power to dispense mercy since I believe that the Big G of the Universe is actually malevolent instead of indifferent like you potentially said. But I hope there is an indifferent God and per Robert's second comment I hope it lets me dissolve into unawareness or whatever state before my own existence, I can't really look at my or the existence of other's and expect anything loving to have done this.