What is meaning of "humanity," actually?

[Morell]

Important note: I don't mean humanity as humans, but something each person might or might not have.

It's actually worth looking into and think about what we define to be our humanity. It seems to me from the movies as well as from history, that person having their humanity is usually good person and one without it is a bad or evil person. But good and evil are not working alone, they need to be aimed against someone to have meaning. So person you consider human is person that is good to you. This points towards tribalism and us vs. them mentality. We humans, they not humans. Or in this spirit we have humanity, they do not have their humanity even if they look like humans. Makes killing enemies easier.

So by becoming someone's enemy one looses their humanity? But what if that is the way to become far better human? Far better person?
What is humanity then? It's just that the other person is part of your tribe.

Thoughts?

 

[Viktor]

One philosopher said, "Humanity is in its teenage years".

Humanity should probably be observed around groups of people rather than an individual.
Or more specifically measured trough HDI (

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), or how primitive some group of people are.

 

[Morell]

One philosopher said, "Humanity is in its teenage years".

Humanity should probably be observed around groups of people rather than an individual.
Or more specifically measured trough HDI (

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), or how primitive some group of people are.

I don't know. I don't think we should consider humanity as a whole the same way as we look at each human. Group of humans is not the same kind of being as individual being. It has different nature and patterns it follows by its own nature. Even in every group of humans, the group is established to serve the individuals. I think it is important to observe "humanity", or whatever we could call it, in every individual person as well.

Statistics are very useful, if one has intellect and proper ability to get the truth from them, but they might hide more than they reveal. Can be pretty tricky.

 

[Sabbatius]

This points towards tribalism and us vs. them mentality. We humans, they not humans. Or in this spirit we have humanity, they do not have their humanity even if they look like humans. Makes killing enemies easier.

So by becoming someone's enemy one looses their humanity? But what if that is the way to become far better human? Far better person?
What is humanity then? It's just that the other person is part of your tribe.

There is an old Osage tale that was told to a company of French Trappers by an Osage elder. The elder spoke of the first contact with the Europeans who traversed the areas on what is now the State of Missouri and came upon the Osage nation, by accident. The Osage did not know who or what they were, nor could comprehend their ways of communication. When approached, these creatures were hostile. In the end it was best to avoid them at all costs.
The Trappers asked if anything else happened with these Europeans and the Osage elder responded with nothing except they tasted horrible and their skin is good for nothing, so just avoid them.

 

[Viktor]

Sorry it looks I missed your point in OP.

There is a special branch in philosophy called morality, it's the same thing as humanity.

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Relevant quote to enable discussion:

There does not seem to be much reason to think that a single definition of morality will be applicable to all moral discussions, even within philosophy. One reason for this is that “morality” seems to be used in two distinct broad senses: a descriptive sense and a normative sense. More particularly, the term “morality” can be used either

- descriptively to refer to certain codes of conduct endorsed by a society or a group (such as a religion), or accepted by an individual for her own behavior, or
- normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be endorsed by all rational people.

So by becoming someone's enemy one looses their humanity? But what if that is the way to become far better human? Far better person?
What is humanity then?

Murder can be justified, e.g. self-defense, or being forced to kill 1 or 10 people.

So I'd say having prudence to choose the lesser evil when forced to do evil is human or moral.
But morality is broad, not easy to reduce it to single definition.

 

[Morell]

There is an old Osage tale that was told to a company of French Trappers by an Osage elder. The elder spoke of the first contact with the Europeans who traversed the areas on what is now the State of Missouri and came upon the Osage nation, by accident. The Osage did not know who or what they were, nor could comprehend their ways of communication. When approached, these creatures were hostile. In the end it was best to avoid them at all costs.
The Trappers asked if anything else happened with these Europeans and the Osage elder responded with nothing except they tasted horrible and their skin is good for nothing, so just avoid them.

I think I've heard something similar to that tale.

 

[Sabbatius]

I think I've heard something similar to that tale.

The same tale was almost verbatim of the Cheyenne stories of the 19th Century, as well as stolen by the author of the book Little Big Man.

Overall, it still gives a good example of the point of conflict and seeing others as lesser, animals, the first contact with differing looks, views, etc.

 

[Morell]

Overall, it still gives a good example of the point of conflict and seeing others as lesser, animals, the first contact with differing looks, views, etc.

Agreed, a tale to learn from.

The tale I've heard was about some colonizers, the locals were really not buying that they are humans so they killed them. In that case by drowning. In some ways humans are the same everywhere.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Let me flip your argument that good = more human and bad = less human on it's head:

I wouldn't say that bad or violent people are inhuman. There are people walking around missing cognitive abilities and emotional processes that appear to be inhuman, but they're just numb or disoriented, in their weakness I think they're shining examples of what being "human" is, just to one extreme.

In regards to what you're talking about, I argue it's pitifully human to be tribal, to be greedy and stupid, violent and impulsive. Our condition in all of it's spectrums can be called "human", Mozart is just as human as anyone you'd fine in a Mississippi trailer park. What you're talking about, the age-old tactic of naming the enemy as "animals" or "monsters in human skin" is also a tactic that reeks of humanity.

I define humanity as a unity of purely individualistic perspective, a self-centered, limited, ignorant, mortal perspective. A consciousness that sees itself as the center of all existence by default, one that claims to be a one-of-a-kind entity: "I'm Mark, and there's only ever been this one Mark!" One that will slaughter another's family to feed his own. One that refuses to think about what will happen after it's gone.

Animals, plants, rocks, stars, these things are inhuman because they don't express individuality past their wordless being. We are the only ones that do that, thus our "humanity", our one cry of "I am!" in an endless vacuum.

Now goodness is often actually depicted as something "divine" something that is above the filthy condition of humanity. Beauty comes from nature, and our most saintly acts are inspired from a whole other condition that humans need to struggle to get to.

 

[Morell]

Interesting flip. Though I wonder if it is true about animal that they do not express individuality beyond wordless beings.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Though I wonder if it is true about animal that they do not express individuality beyond wordless beings.

Next time you see a flock of geese walking around, or a log covered in frogs, try and pick out which ones are introverts and extroverts.

 

[8Lou1]

there is a point in a sufi's evolution where the definition human doesnt fit his or her reality anymore and the soul needs to find an other word to find comfort.

i went that route and its an afterwards thing, where you somehow have grown and find/ are introduced to a new group consciousness where the soul feels at home. these days we would be called otherkin, vampire, elf, lycanthrope, etc.

its a letting go of your physical family and accepting a soul family, which can be a painful experience where good and evil, tribalism, morals and dogma's, etc. pop up to create chaos so the new order/logic can get born.

when you sit still and watch this thing unfold, you might be able to see how lhp and rhp are knitting a new thing. its never specific named so every one can see its own version into being with expertise and all.

in a sense its creation the personal middle pillar on soul level and that makes evil/good and tribalism change into questions about it. you will notice that when others answer, you will most of the time think: cool!, but that not me. thats how you learn to accept otherness and yourself as 2 separate beings with free will and rights.

 

[Morell]

Next time you see a flock of geese walking around, or a log covered in frogs, try and pick out which ones are introverts and extroverts.

True. However here comes into play our inability to read the animals. We do not really see the patterns of their behavior and cannot recognize them, consciously or not. This however changes with home-kept pet animals that you can observe every day. Scientists do experiment on animals to learn if they do have individuality. They found some interesting finds and seems to me that they admit the possibility of animals being individuals.

Post automatically merged: Aug 10, 2025

there is a point in a sufi's evolution where the definition human doesnt fit his or her reality anymore and the soul needs to find an other word to find comfort.

i went that route and its an afterwards thing, where you somehow have grown and find/ are introduced to a new group consciousness where the soul feels at home. these days we would be called otherkin, vampire, elf, lycanthrope, etc.

its a letting go of your physical family and accepting a soul family, which can be a painful experience where good and evil, tribalism, morals and dogma's, etc. pop up to create chaos so the new order/logic can get born.

when you sit still and watch this thing unfold, you might be able to see how lhp and rhp are knitting a new thing. its never specific named so every one can see its own version into being with expertise and all.

in a sense its creation the personal middle pillar on soul level and that makes evil/good and tribalism change into questions about it. you will notice that when others answer, you will most of the time think: cool!, but that not me. thats how you learn to accept otherness and yourself as 2 separate beings with free will and rights.

I'm officially impressed. I think I agree with you.

 

[Ziran]

Thoughts?

Good question

What is meaning of "humanity" ?
...something each person might or might not have.

Humans are able to adopt and magnify within themself attributes perceived in all the others.