What is black magick *TO YOU*??

[Robert Ramsay]

Can we easily define exactly what “harm” is? If you do a “white magick” protection spell to keep you safe while driving and it works preventing you from being in an accident but someone else dies in a crash instead, did it cause harm? I know this is kind of a silly example but I’m just playing the devils advocate here lol

IIRC, 'Harm' in magical terms usually refers to intent rather than outcome.

 

[Evara]

Can we easily define exactly what “harm” is? If you do a “white magick” protection spell to keep you safe while driving and it works preventing you from being in an accident but someone else dies in a crash instead, did it cause harm? I know this is kind of a silly example but I’m just playing the devils advocate here lol

Funny thing is though... who cast the protection spell? Because if you pushed it yourself... that's black magic still.
I've used black magic to manipulate light to hog tie veil entities.

White magic generally means that you're working with an entity.
So like, a prayer is white magic. Calling out to a God or a Goddess is white magic.
But if you push the spell and ask them to push it as well, that's a mix. "Grey magic" is what I call it.

Harm- to do something forcibly that alters the target in a negative way.
Usually by causing damage via an experience, physical altercation or destruction of property, environment or system.

 

[Morell]

Worth giving my 2 cents.

For me black magic was invented thanks to Christianity demonizing magic. When some people found out that magic can be used for both good and bad, they demonised some form of magic themselves and named it black magic. In the definition I understand black magic to be magic that is harmful tot he victim as well as to the spellcaster, or at least proving such spellcaster to be evil/corrupted/bad/etc...

There are definitely cases of magic damaging the one who cast it, but wrong use is simply not same as malevolent use.

 

[Kepler]

Zero Sum magick in Non-Zero Sum situations. I try to avoid zero sum bias and those that live it.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

Zero Sum magick in Non-Zero Sum situations. I try to avoid zero sum bias and those that live it.

I think I mostly understand what you mean but would you be willing to expound a bit? What's an example of a non-zero sum situation?

 

[Kepler]

I think I mostly understand what you mean but would you be willing to expound a bit? What's an example of a non-zero sum situation?

"Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

It's a completely new ethical system evolved from my immanent philosophy that isn't based on simple proscription.

Like others I don't use the term black magick but something more game theory to contextualize it within the framework.

 

[reverendsteveii]

Can we easily define exactly what “harm” is? If you do a “white magick” protection spell to keep you safe while driving and it works preventing you from being in an accident but someone else dies in a crash instead, did it cause harm? I know this is kind of a silly example but I’m just playing the devils advocate here lol

That's a big philosophical problem you're getting at, which is that of responsibility. I personally think that predictability is at the heart of responsibility. If you could reasonably predict that your driving ward works by causing other people to have accidents then yeah, you're responsible for that because you made a choice. If you didn't know, then you didn't make a choice and it's hard to justify assigning responsibility. If you should have known, which I'm not gonna try to define in a philosophically firm way but I think we all intuitively recognize, then there's a level of responsibility there too but it's different because the primary offense isn't choosing to harm people on purpose, it's choosing to neglect your duty to determine the outcomes of your actions. We deal in a space driven by intention even moreso than those in the mundane space. Intentionality absolutely factors into the moral content of your magick.

 

[Lurker]

But I want to know what do you personally consider black magick to be in regard to your own practice?

You were right to phrase the question that way. Like most views on magic in general, it is highly subjective.

"Black magic" -- not a term I use.

But if I did , it's what other magician's do, of course.

Me neither. And while you were joking in your second paragraph, for me it's more literal. I only use the term 'black magic' if someone self-identifies their magic as black magic.

I know the term has historical meaning - or meanings - but frankly, I dislike these kind of labels. All they do is place other peoples' preconceptions and prejudices on our own practices, and try to stuff us into pigeon holes. Pigeon holes are for pigeons, not magicians. As magicians, I think we should be trying to broaden our experiences and understandings as much as possible, in order to make our realities as malleable as possible, which is the antithesis of accepting other people's labels and accepting all of their baggage that goes along with them.

 

[Mh4419]

Black magic gives you freedom to make impossible to possible and lots of benefits are there if using it in correct way, not to harm people. Personally I use black magic protection which is more powerful, so magic is magic what ever white or black, always consequences are there.

 

[StarOfSitra]

A simplistic vision: Black magic is the focus, practice, and channeling of one’s own will, desire, and belief — your will is the only law (your true will). White magic, on the other hand, is about worshipping deities and submitting to their will; it’s about asking for favors, not taking what you want.

 

[FindingTruth]

there is no such thing as "good magic" there is nuetral magic and there is black magic. The best source on the subject matter of magic, in my opinion is the dark web. For example: Margareta Rhoda's Romani Oracle 1889 is probably the best defining unbiased opinion on the subject of magic as 1. she's long gone and dead, 2. she was a dark art practitioner herself (witch) who was killed by the spanish inquisition (she fled england for spain some time during the 1890's). and the best part, she was a nun. Her Diary (Romani Oracle 1889) illustrates the use of magic, the how-to of spell casting and ritual practice (which in no way shape or form is anything like this BS you see promoted today). She clearly defines nuetral magic and black magic as the only forms of magic. "white magic" does not exist. Protection spells for example are used by both nuetral witches and black witches. a Nuetral witch is simple a witch that does not delve into the darkest of arts.

You can go on amazon and find a washed down version (edited) version of her diary which only illustrates (cartomancy how to, what the cards represent, placement, protection spells and charms, talismans, some curses and hexes which are not fatal and some potion making recipes). What is excluded from this amazon version is demon summoning, fatal curses/hexes and the history (as it is a diary) of her and her family. The Romani people are a private people, thus the edited author desided to exclude it.

The edited version is still worth the read, especially if divination is what interests you. Yet if you know how to surf the dark web, the full diary is the best (most twisted) thing on witch craft I have ever read.

 

[Mannimarco]

There are countless explanations in books and online. But I want to know what do you personally consider black magick to be in regard to your own practice?

Is it more just baneful spells/curses/hexes?
Is it more about working with demons?

Then once you’ve defined it for your own practice…
Do you practice only black magick Or do you only occasionally incorporate it into your practice?

I plan on chiming in later with some of my own ideas but I wanna hear from ya’ll!

An unhelpful term.

 

[frsfmcs]

To me, black magic is the use of the suffering of others as the fuel to for ones magic.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

An unhelpful term.

While I agree with the sentiment, the thread is posted in the "black Magick" section of the forum so I don't think it's an entirely useless question lol it's used ubiquitously in this community regardless of how helpful/unhelpful it might be.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:07 PM

To me, black magic is the use of the suffering of others as the fuel to for ones magic.

I think this is a very rational take. What are your thoughts on people who say they use "dark/black" Magick for "white/good" aims?

 

[Sabbatius]

Long gone are the days when the answer would be "Necromancy" and "Devil-Worship."

I am being honest here. If this comes off as a bit over-ethical, fine. Black Magic, by my definition is the focused intention to cause negative force based on selfish reaction. You intend to cause strife, pain, failure, harm, etc. simply because the target was successful, or won something, or got the job you wanted, or won an award, money, or got the car you wanted, or just wealthy, or prettier, or more buff, or just something like a misunderstanding caused you to just not like them- in any case, your outright jealousy or perception of the person caused you to create your vision of them as the Enemy, so you demand satisfaction to see their downfall. This can be simple curses, a jar, or any sort of intent to better yourself above them to outright calling upon the Abyss to swallow them whole. You demand Choronzon to get busy.

It is not fun being on the receiving end of this, all because someone just never understood you.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

Long gone are the days when the answer would be "Necromancy" and "Devil-Worship."

I am being honest here. If this comes off as a bit over-ethical, fine. Black Magic, by my definition is the focused intention to cause negative force based on selfish reaction. You intend to cause strife, pain, failure, harm, etc. simply because the target was successful, or won something, or got the job you wanted, or won an award, money, or got the car you wanted, or just wealthy, or prettier, or more buff, or just something like a misunderstanding caused you to just not like them- in any case, your outright jealousy or perception of the person caused you to create your vision of them as the Enemy, so you demand satisfaction to see their downfall. This can be simple curses, a jar, or any sort of intent to better yourself above them to outright calling upon the Abyss to swallow them whole. You demand Choronzon to get busy.

It is not fun being on the receiving end of this, all because someone just never understood you.

So if its done as a result of someone wronging you (thus less of a selfish reaction and more out of a sense of revenge or justice)…then would it still be black magick in your book?

 

[Sabbatius]

So if its done as a result of someone wronging you (thus less of a selfish reaction and more out of a sense of revenge or justice)…then would it still be black magick in your book?

Technically, no. Intention is the basis. Is this true for all situations? No. This is not a huge blanket to cover all cases. But for much of the activities witnessed throughout my years with some pretty selfish people who had the need to inflict others, mostly out of jealousy and selfish interests, yes.

 

[lumineth Realm Lord]

There are countless explanations in books and online. But I want to know what do you personally consider black magick to be in regard to your own practice?

Is it more just baneful spells/curses/hexes?
Is it more about working with demons?

Then once you’ve defined it for your own practice…
Do you practice only black magick Or do you only occasionally incorporate it into your practice?

I plan on chiming in later with some of my own ideas but I wanna hear from ya’ll!

Three potential definitions.
1. Magic in general, if you're looking at it through a Christian-ish perspective. Or more specifically, anything that calls on something other than the Abrahamic God. Though, I've seen some gnarly spells in Renaissance Grimoires, calling on God to do them.
2. Magic that calls on spirits associated with the underworld/cthonic realms. Even if for positive/beneficial intentions.
3. Magic that manipulates life force, whether to harm through curses, or to use blood in rituals meant for constructive purposes.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Historically it had more to do with the source of the magic.

Now days most people use them as near pointless designations to make themselves seem/feel more innocent or edgy.

-Eld

 

[FindingTruth]

An unhelpful term.

Black magic does not exist, though occult practices do, there is no evidence to suggest any desired result has occured from said practice. To me, it is simply hogwash.