Egocentrism and Magic

[MorganBlack]

* Sigh**

It had to come to this eventually.

There is only ONE WAY to settle this argument now.

DEMONIC DEATH MAGIC DUEL AT 10,000 KILOMETERS!!!

( We can sell tickets!)

 

[AntoniusBlock]

* Sigh**

It had to come to this eventually.

There is only ONE WAY to settle this argument now.

DEMONIC DEATH MAGIC DUEL AT 10,000 KILOMETERS!!!

( We can sell tickets!)

Oh, no. Another demon battle to the death?

I still have scars from fighting over the last slice of pizza!

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

* Sigh**

It had to come to this eventually.

There is only ONE WAY to settle this argument now.

DEMONIC DEATH MAGIC DUEL AT 10,000 KILOMETERS!!!

( We can sell tickets!)

I'd watch this on pay per view

 

[HoldAll]

Perhaps we misunderstand the concept of egocentrism here. Wiki defines it as "difficulty in accurately perceiving and understanding perspectives other than one's own", so it's not a vice or character flaw like selfishness but rather a cognitive misperformance resulting in a distorted perception of others. Even more interesting is a study Wiki describes according to which person suffering from depression showed higher levels of egocentrism than those who did not to which I can personally attest to - if you're depressed, everything revolves around you and your suffering, and all those futile ruminations about the whys and wherefores of your mental illness drive you even deeper into that egocentrism. I've watched this in myself and other depressed persons, there's hardly any room for feeling empathy for others. What an awful, awful trap…

If you're an egocentric, you may boast that you are able to put yourself in another person's shoes but all you'll ever be able to do is judge that person by your own standards and see their weaknesses in order to make yourself feel superior which is what might have happened to the OP who inadvertently provided us with such a textbook example of egocentrism.

 

[Romolo]

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. So the Serpent bites her own tail... It reminds me of this anecdote of the young Proust, when his mother asked him: "What is wrong with you?" and he yelled "Nothing! Nothing Nothing!!" and stormed out of the house. In that word "nothing" was concealed exactly the everything.

It is plausible that OP was unaware of this. In this case, they deserve grace. Were we too harsh?

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Were we too harsh?

No.

 

[Kepler]

It is plausible that OP was unaware of this. In this case, they deserve grace. Were we too harsh?

OP's circumstances would have to be considered.
Community minded well adjusted people don't justify attacking those they think are weaker than themselves unless there is a significant peril.
A significant peril to some may not be to others. OP wasn't a peril to me and their concern was understandable.
But, people teach how they've been taught and react defensively to perceived threats. Egotistical assessments are harmful. When they're only self concerned rather than community minded it drifts into into self-important imposition, justifications for maltreatment, limiting discussion and eliminating participants.

 

[MorganBlack]

This is gong to be far more harsh than I mean to. I was going to leave it alone . Forgive me, but people sometimes take advantage of our collective graciousness on a public forum.

I hate being an asshole, but I also dislike people who use stolen valor to make a point.

My buddies are "...the greatest practitioners of our age." Yeah? So what?

"Ex" Vodouisant here. Still love the Lwa, and spent time with Haitians and non-Haitians intitates being taught when I was younger. I went 'inactive' once my Houngan passed away. The Haitian father of our House was Tonton Macoute. Because I am not Haitian and these rituals are heavily coded to Haitian culture, I was feeling like I was appropriating their culture. I am also not making rules here for anyone.

Vodou, being animist, you learn sorcery is not so much a skill - like, learning how to 'astral project' into a pizza - but more like being a good friend, learning communication and paying attention. There is nothing to "master" any more than learning how to become a good friend is: a good listener, and being attentive to needs and communications. Being present and paying attention. There is a ritual choreography, learning to guide and direct their manifestation, and control their hotter "Petwo" manifesations so they do no harm to you and yours. This is a very different approach than the non-animist models that think "magic" is all about becoming a human-shaped electrical widget for "energy."

Please pardon my following lack of mythic circumspection and mixing of terms here. I hate sounding dogmatic.The daimons of the grimoires are Archangelic-level Powers, just on the deeply chthonic end of reality, which bring issues. There are magicians here who can hold their own against anybody.

But OP is concern-troll reverse-dick-wagging us.

I used to be pretty chill, like "The fool who continues in their foolishness soon becomes wise." (And I probably still have plenty of foolishness myself.) But with social media these days, now they find others who share their foolishness, cluster together in a low-information hug-box, and scream at or concern-troll practitioners who have dedicated themselves to their Arte for decades. Please, don't.

 

[Lurker]

Were we too harsh?

Speaking for myself, it wasn't my intention to be harsh. I just had a somewhat different argument than others had made. But since other people were arguing, I did worry that it might feel to the OP like they were being rat-packed.

I think we should be able to accommodate different views and remain civil. One of the cardinal rules for intelligent arguing is to attack an argument you disagree with, not the person making it.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 8:10 PM

In this case, they deserve grace.

I agree, the OP was just stating an opinion. We could have plenty more to discuss with them, and could even find common ground.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 8:12 PM

But common ground or not, as a member in good standing, they have every right to state their opinion.

 

[FireBorn]

concern-troll reverse-dick-wagging us

I don't even know what that is, but if dicks are wagging, or pointed in my direction, I'm going the other way. Ymmv on that.

It's just online debate. At least it isn't an echo chamber, cause we would all hate that. It's only life and I have it on good authority that none of us get out of here alive.

A year ago I would've agreed with this person, 4 months ago I would've agreed with that person. Today I agree with another person. Tomorrow? Who knows tomorrow never comes lol, but you get my point. Leave room for growth.

I'm not speaking to you directly man, just grabbed your reverse dick wagging line because it was funny. And now I will be looking for a reason to use with my buddies this weekend cause I am more mature and spiritually aligned than all of you.

 

[MorganBlack]

cause I am more mature and spiritually aligned than all of yo

Heheeeeee!!

Hey, lego my mage-itis!

As a matter of fact - and I just will causally drop this here... for NO reason! ALL the Ascended Masters in Galactic Central Control say I'm the one and true reincarnated Zee-nu Star Child! Fuck those other posers.

So gimme all your drugs and women!

"Donation" room is ---> over there!

 

[AntoniusBlock]

The response was probably a bit harsh, but honestly, what can you do? If you're too easy on that sort of behavior, it can easily be a slippery slope; today, it's "egocentrism", but tomorrow there could be a litany of magickal practices you're not even allowed to discuss because it offends the "marginalized" or some such nonsense. Free and open discussion is crucial for a healthy practice, even if people are sometimes offended.

I honestly didn't even have a problem with the original post until I saw how OP replied to criticism, which really painted the whole message in a less favourable light. I understand it's hard being criticized and maybe the criticism could've been a little milder, but there's a real "community leader" vibe with the OP that makes me think they were hoping to police people's behavior beyond the limits of reasonability and that's frankly far more corrosive than people being a little curt on occasion. I remember browsing the internet as a child and seeing just how much people used to get away with; it was far from perfect, but there was definitely a lot more freedom back then before corporations and wannabe activists decided the internet was more useful as a hugbox or a schoolmarm convention than as an realm of information and expression.

If OP's intentions were merely to have a conversation about the dangers of egocentrism, that's perfectly understandable and we should be able to talk about that, but my gut tells me that egocentrism was just a pretext for a moralist power trip. As for the mental illness, I appreciate that not everyone can read social cues or control themselves as well as they like, but that doesn't excuse anything and everything they do. At some point, you have to put your foot down and say "no, your problems don't excuse that sort of behavior". Respect is a two-way street: you don't waltz in and lecture everyone on how they should behave. OP seemed more interested in lecturing than having a conversation, not to mention the condescending attitude.