What determines substantial true contact with deities or inner contacts?

[DiLoco_DelEted]

One of the most common topics is trickster, imposter spirits and parasites/parasitic spirits. Shades, shadow people, etc also fit in as that collective on undesirables in invocation or evocation, or even just establishing sacred space. As a consequence of a magician being unable to accomplish any of these successfully, is unlikely in my opinion to be able to contact the intended party.

What do you define as sunstantial or true contact with the intended party? What was the method used, and how do you know that intended party was in fact reached?

This will aid myself and others.

 

[Lemongrass00]

Using some sort of seal, asking the spirit questions in the name of God, Jesus, etc, asking the spirit to write its name somewhere on its body to ensure accuracy, if its a lower level spirit it’s appearance might give it away as an imposter spirit, etc. Those are some things I have read about but i have personally never tried.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Okay. Thanks, I think working on trying to get clairvoyance, clairaudience or clairsentience awakens, strengthen, and developed.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I did use a seal, I did ask for the archangel to verify himself by flame, divine name were exhorted and commanded. a threat of lightning struck at imposters or any unintended beings if they did not leave, verbal exorcism.
I dont ave clairvoyance or scrying skills yet though. Again, IK think this is the very first thing a magick student should learn before anything else. Or the Adepts and Magi both know to err is human, we have to learn from our mistakes, and let us fuck up. The good teachers will then set us back on proper course, in my fanstacial opinion.

 

[Lemongrass00]

Well it sounds like the chances of legitimacy are high then, what seal did you use out of curiosity?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Good recommendations by the way
The only things I can think of otherwise is full immersion, week long fasting and chants, using correspondences as often as possible. Draw them to us maybe.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Well it sounds like the chances of legitimacy are high then, what seal did you use out of curiosity?

I had Michaels kamea an seal flat on the altar, symbolically the guardian and observer. Raphael was propped up behind the candles.

I did circumambulations with use of the Lord of the Universe adoration in east and west, then a QC-LBRP-QC.
Then I sat down, spoke blessings from the Siddur.
Then I sat and thought on the intent.

I then gave verbal exorcism, such as the first line from Liber Israfel.
No salt water or incense was present, so no exorcism by fire or water. Water was the chosen manifestation base. Hence the four water cups each with its own purpose and symbolism, one orange and one other candle.

I commanded any imposter spirits to immediately go back to their proper time and place, and for God to cleanse the room in the name of Jesus Christ, I then called out Raphael, and began to chant his name and stare at his seal, waiting for it to open, which it didn't appear to do, but thought a presence was in the room. Nothing sensed regarding Hod or Raphael.
Used seal from Abano, and focused back on the Raphael seal being used.

I then commanded the flame to leap in height if you are, under penalty of being struck by God, in fact Archangel Raphael, one of the seven spirits before the throne of God, and not an imposter, trickster or spirit, again under penalty of being destroyed by lightning from God.

I assumed the candle was telling me the truth, and gave the charge to the archangel, and told him he was welcome to stay around for a bit, and began to start praising Christ.

Eventually I started to lose focus, so I gave license to depart and sat in the glow of the candles. Eventually I felt there was no connection to Raphael, so sniffed the candles and closed the ritual temple, did a LBRP and grounded myself.

 

[Roma]

There are various human belief systems underlying your rituals. What if the beliefs are not accurate?

Try to use function-location combination names. They are harder to hijack

 

[Yazata]

function-location combination names

With this you mean for example use Nogahel / Venusiel / Angel of Venus instead of Anael / Haniel

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

What's wrong with the Archangel name being used? This is a pretty standard name.
How are the other names equivalent?

 

[Yazata]

To me there's nothing wrong with it. I asked if that was what Roma meant.
Edit: those are all the same angel

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Okay, Im lost as to what the point is.

 

[Roma]

With this you mean for example use Nogahel / Venusiel / Angel of Venus instead of Anael / Haniel

The closer the name is to a natural function and a specific time-space, the harder it is for the name to be hijacked.

Angel is a bit generic - originally meaning "messenger"

Venus is more specific. Planet Venus is even more specific.

So what functions may be associated directly with the planet Venus?

Would such an entity be interested in humans playing with magic?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but there is a fundamental problem.

For the mightiest being in the universe, whose loyal warriors and messengers serve him and his creation, seems to be as powerful as a street bum these days.

Does anyone else see this?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Not to mention, how on earth would a sigil be created from a non-generic name?

 

[Mider2009]

Learn

 

[Mider2009]

tarotttttttt

 

[Roma]

For the mightiest being in the universe, whose loyal warriors and messengers serve him and his creation, seems to be as powerful as a street bum these days.

That is a rather anthropomorphic approach

What if the universe were the body of the Universal Logos? In the same way, the typical human body system has around a trillion intelligences operating within it. Most are bacteria but there are many intelligences of other orders present - not all of which cooperate

I was at a large social gathering yesterday and some of the children were making the usual display of how the mouth intelligence does not understand the stomach intelligence - even though they both operate within the digestive system. Stomach aches were obvious.

Could the same learning process occur in the body that we call the Universe?

 

[Yazata]

Would such an entity be interested in humans playing with magic

If Venus rules (among other things) beauty, art and love then it might want more people to tune-in to its channel. Might even want people to remove the black octopus from their ego

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I gotta find telegaga.