Magic vs Mysticism/Asceticism

[DiLoco_DelEted]

What are your opinions on the two or three ways of life?
Do you find they contradict each other?
Do you find they strengthen each other?
Do you think one is more powerful than the other? Why?
Do you think one is bull? Why?
Do you think one is less effective then the other? Without spirits?
Do you think they can harness and redirect forces and forms regardless?

 

[Yazata]

Didn't you make a thread yesterday about not asking that many questions
As with all things I think balance and a continuous shifting of your point of gravity is the way.

 

[Divs]

I feel whether they are strengthened or contradictory depends entirely on the individuals approach. If you get set in your ways, or stuck... when you stop learning and growing spiritual practices can become just as mechanical as say driving. So regardless if it's one path or a hundred it's going to amount to moot. More to the point though, I think we need to see beyond our own comfort, ideas, and beliefs. If one cannot do that it tends to create a sort of dogma in which everything that isnt your way will contradict.

That's not to imply you need to agree with or accept every single thought you come across. A healthy dose of skepticism is almost necessary I'd say, but if you can view other philosophies that aren't your own with a sense of openness, its entirely possible to gain something from them. Even if that something is nothing more than what doesn't work for you. In that sense I feel they strengthen one another.

 

[KjEno186]

Questions such as this are often answered in philosophical works such as Eliphas Levi's Transcendental Magic, aka The Doctrine and Ritual of High Magic. In fact, this very topic was covered by John Michael Greer in his

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.

I'll quote from the PDF of Transcendental Magic since it's freely available...

To collect and diffuse are nature's two words [the word COAGULA and the other SOLVE] - but after what manner can we accomplish these operations with the astral light or soul of the world? Concentration is by isolation and distribution by the magical chain. Isolation consists in absolute independence for thought, complete liberty for the heart, and perfect continence for the senses. Every man who is possessed by prejudices and fears, every passionate person who is slave of his passions, is incapable of concentrating or coagulating, according to the expression of Khunrath, the astral light or soul of the Earth. All true adepts have been independent even amidst torture, sober and chaste till death.

Levi went on to mention names of famous people who did reach the pinnacles of their fame due to the degree of asceticism they practiced. As John Michael Greer explains:

To accomplish the coagula phase, it’s necessary to isolate oneself from the collective, mentally, astrally, and physically. Mental isolation is the ability to think your own thoughts even, or especially, when they conflict with the collective consciousness of your community and your age. Astral isolation is complete freedom from involuntary emotional ties, so that nobody can “push your buttons” or evoke an emotional reaction in you that you do not want to feel. Physical isolation is habitual self-control over bodily cravings, taken to such a point that asceticism becomes natural. You cannot commands anything in human experience if that thing commands you: that is the essential concept that has to be grasped in order to be able to attract and gather the astral light.

But he then goes on to point out that extreme asceticism need not be practiced by the ordinary mage:

There’s an important distinction to be made here, however. The more intense forms of isolation are only necessary if you want to accomplish the more potent kinds of collective change. The habits of absolute renunciation are only necessary if you want to change the world. You can accomplish smaller works with much less drastic means. You can also simply study the art of magic without attempting it into practice; as our text suggests, beyond the enjoyments of satisfied curiosity, this knowledge has practical benefits: it protects against the paired stupidities of unthinking belief and unthinking disbelief. Many follies in human society are driven by one of these, and even more are driven by both acting in conjunction.

 

[KjEno186]

As with all things I think balance and a continuous shifting of your point of gravity is the way.

This is really the whole point.

Do you find they contradict each other?

No, there are many paths up the mountain. Perhaps a more austere lifestyle can help one reach the summit before casting off the mortal shell.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Its funny because some great mystics have contributed to the field of magic. Even some of the ceremonial greats were tempted to be mystics.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Didn't you make a thread yesterday about not asking that many questions
As with all things I think balance and a continuous shifting of your point of gravity is the way.

I agree with you. Just trying to keep the board alive

No, I have been thinking .... if a persons struggle so much with getting magic to work, maybe they were intended to be a mystic and not a magician, and may find they receive "natural powers" of a celestial nature.

 

[Yazata]

struggle so much with getting magic to work

Aleister Crowley said "One is the Magician, twain his forces"
(I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT THAT WORD TWAIN..)
Meaning there is a positive and a negative in all. If you are currently bad at attracting things to you then cast things (obstacles/ hindrances etc) AWAY from you.