[Opinion] Can magic keep being active after a magician dies?

Morell · Jan 9, 2026

I've heard arguments going both ways. I wonder though, if it is real and about the conditions for it.

I assume that if the mage is solitary practitioner, then his magic fades with his death or soon after it as none other knows about the spell and it discharges and dissolves.

In an occult group it can turn different. If the mage starts a spell and teaches others about it, they can keep inheriting the secret and keep the magic going as long as they don't go too far from the original. Though even here I wonder if the slow change is the disadvantage or is just aspect of survival of the magic.

Thought?

iseht · Jan 9, 2026

As with all things its complicated. Dion Fortune considered that a working requires sustained attention to retain its effect which is my interpretation as well. This draws neatly into concepts like egregores and magical currents where the magic clearly can outlive the mage if a group picks it up. I would consider a spell done in secret to only live as long as its creator fuels it.

However, Agrippa has this on talismans, "If the Moon is unfortunate, [carved] in lead, and buried in some place, it makes that place—as well as its inhabitants, visitors, ships, springs, rivers, and mills—unfortunate. It makes all men against
whom it was duly made unfortunate, making them flee from their land
and country and from the place of their home wherever [the image] is buried. "

That seems to imply that something intrinsic to the talisman, the metal used, will sustain the effects beyond the practitioner's focus. As I recall the Key of Solomon has something similar on talismans. Perhaps what is needed is a material anchor, this can either be the practitioner or the metal or stone or whatever that the influence is placed in.

tetradicTendencies · Jan 9, 2026

honestly i have no idea, but i have a multi-part question as newb to divination:

if i successfully divine future events, does the magic "end" at the spell? or does it persist until the event occurs? if the latter, if i die before the event occurs, does that make the fortold event less likely somehow due to a diminished foreknowledge and intent from me?
if i can make a spell that effectively makes passive divination active to the point that it's basically tychokinesis, does that change in certainty persist if i die after the spell but before the intended circumstance?

my intuition would say that the fortold/intended event would in fact go through regardless of my being there
if the magic "ends" at the spell but the influence still persists, doesn't that mean that the magic still persists due to the transitive property?

i'm new to all this, i'd love to hear your input!

FireBorn · Jan 10, 2026

I dont want to derail your thread @Morell but your question touches on something I have been sitting with for a while, and I think its worth breaking out this distinction because it addresses your question, even if it shifts the lens a bit. If you feel its pushing your topic too far off course, happy to spin it into separate thread. I will probably write and wrestle with it more at a later date anyway.

When I use magick, I touch the current. That current exists whether I do or not. So how I harness that current and manipulate the world with it is only as valid as my energy that maintains it, like a fire fueled by wood. If I cast a binding spell, then I croak tonight, what holds the spell? Its not on autopilot. If it were, we would have to explain to practitioners that they are wasting time recharging their wards and charms and talismans right? Sorry to those who want it to be set it and forget it, that's just not what I've seen.

There is also the aspect of ritualistic magick which is different than spell casting. Spellcasting is internalized magick/power and ritualistic magick is externalized magick/power. Calling a spirit and petitioning, whole different thing, not less, just different. Yes, I believe that could outlast a practitioner. Asking a demon to carry out a curse for example, that can last generations, depending on how the practitioner set it up.

Is the magick bound to a mortal circuit or an immortal one? Massive shift, and the nuance seems to be completely missed. It matters. Hope that makes sense.

Last thing, there is a shit ton of nuance in what I laid out. No it is not objectively true, and not perfect in all cases. I may even have missed a few things, like generational hexes, cursed objects, etc. I dont have answers, its magick after all. I confuse myself wrestling this at times, so now you get to wrestle it too. You're welcome.

I just run my mouth and a push broom. YMMV

Sabbatius · Jan 10, 2026

I have to say yes.

My conclusion is based on the works done at specific sites by individual medicine workers who protected areas of high spiritual value to a specific practice. Not all areas, including some of the Medicine Wheels, were group gathering sites. These were overseen, utilized and protected by a single medicine worker who would assist those who needed their medicine.

These locations are intense, whether it is a build up of generational power, as many trained another to pass on the medicine of the area, or built and used by an individual, the medicine remains.

AlfrunGrima · Jan 10, 2026

Morell said:
I've heard arguments going both ways. I wonder though, if it is real and about the conditions for it.

I assume that if the mage is solitary practitioner, then his magic fades with his death or soon after it as none other knows about the spell and it discharges and dissolves.

In an occult group it can turn different. If the mage starts a spell and teaches others about it, they can keep inheriting the secret and keep the magic going as long as they don't go too far from the original. Though even here I wonder if the slow change is the disadvantage or is just aspect of survival of the magic.

Thought?

I was immediately thinking about the familiar: in a lot of cases witches gives them familiars to another family member or to another witch. I don't know if other magic workers do the same because I have not so much knowledge about other paths and traditions.

Shalux · Jan 10, 2026

I do not have a personal example, but what about energy traces, too? Couldn't a particular concentration of energy gathered and left somewhere still be present after the magician's physical death?

AlfrunGrima · Jan 10, 2026

FireBorn said:
. Calling a spirit and petitioning, whole different thing, not less, just different. Yes, I believe that could outlast a practitioner. Asking a demon to carry out a curse for example, that can last generations, depending on how the practitioner set it up.

Yes I agree to that. And it is similar to the allies I have with spirits and the connections with the local folk tales I have here. Some places and allies in my region grow in their power if I give them my attention. I discovered that if I feed that, people here in the village connect more to those folk tales. And this changes something in the community. I still don't know how that works, but my choices in connections can influence people around me in one or another way. Maybe our mind connects and communicates more about a lot of things without that we even knowing that. (That makes though control even more important for magicians, but this is a side note)

Post automatically merged: Jan 10, 2026

Shalux said:
I do not have a personal example, but what about energy traces, too? Couldn't a particular concentration of energy gathered and left somewhere still be present after the magician's physical death?

I think if it is feeded strong and often enough, it would be possible. But it is difficult to make tangible how much is needed to get energy on that stage.

DoubleJ2000 · Jan 10, 2026

iseht said:
As with all things its complicated. Dion Fortune considered that a working requires sustained attention to retain its effect which is my interpretation as well. This draws neatly into concepts like egregores and magical currents where the magic clearly can outlive the mage if a group picks it up. I would consider a spell done in secret to only live as long as its creator fuels it.

However, Agrippa has this on talismans, "If the Moon is unfortunate, [carved] in lead, and buried in some place, it makes that place—as well as its inhabitants, visitors, ships, springs, rivers, and mills—unfortunate. It makes all men against
whom it was duly made unfortunate, making them flee from their land
and country and from the place of their home wherever [the image] is buried. "

That seems to imply that something intrinsic to the talisman, the metal used, will sustain the effects beyond the practitioner's focus. As I recall the Key of Solomon has something similar on talismans. Perhaps what is needed is a material anchor, this can either be the practitioner or the metal or stone or whatever that the influence is placed in.

I've heard the same in various forms but, the concept remains strong none the less. In fact so strongly, that is the real reason as to why (Ita-loku) blood family or (Lukku Opia) spirit family heirlooms are so valuable as well as part of particular rites. Although, either direction of the debate might have some claims natures structure isn't just birth and permanent death there's numbers transitions and transformations. Maybe its true power is not in the temporary meat suit of the mage but, more the transmutation and all its lessons allowing it in certain instances to exist when and where in needs to. After all if anything is possible when the conditions permit it then why not? Nutty things happen everyday.

therootbeersprite · Jan 18, 2026

I would say that it depends on the construction of the spell. If you are making a change with magic, by what method are you making that change?

If your spell makes a one time change, and the results are the effects of that one time change, then your death doesn't undo it. If you drop a stone into water, the ripples will continue with or without you. The change that has happened has happened, and you can only go forward from there.

Of course, the ripples only go so far. After a time, the effects fade away whether the caster is still living or not.

If your spell requires you to provide continuous power, then your death will stop powering the spell. If your spell is a mill run by a waterwheel, and the wheel breaks, the mill stops. But these are spells that siphon energy from the caster continuously, and are difficult to maintain to begin with.

Some spells do need continuous energy, but that energy isn't provided by the caster. I make sleep poppets, and they're a bit like making a watch. I assemble the components, and the way that I put them together makes them "tick" in ways that they wouldn't by themselves. A gear is just a gear until you assemble it with others into a machine and turn it on. I do use my own energy to turn it on, but I don't use my own energy to keep it going. I give the poppets a "battery" and a way to recharge without me. (They charge in the sunlight, and have a gemstone of some kind to hold that charge - usually amethyst.) Once I put it out there, it is its own thing, no longer run by me. When I die, it will still work as long as the user continues to charge and maintain it, just like a clock will still work even after the death of the clock-maker as long as the owner remembers to wind it and keep it in good repair.

Firetree · Jan 19, 2026

Magic can remain alive in a place that was never 'charged' or 'spell cast' by a magician in the first place . Some indigenous traditions actually need this connection to place to have power in the first place .

Eg 'Sacred Sites ' and 'Increase sites '

^ Palka Karrinya - 'owl dreaming' site

6703107199faa14865219fae_5e8f60b1b7a4c95cc7c319de_ainslieroberts-palkakarrinya.jpeg

Ainslee Roberts - Aussie painter - spent the night there .... never the same since

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Keldan · Jan 25, 2026

This is such an interesting topic. I can’t resist. Lol.

I’d say the current we have can still linger after we pass on. I saw someone mention “armchair magick” on the site, so I’ll use an armchair as an example. For example, you sit in the same chair in a specific spot in your home every day, reading, drinking coffee, enjoying the view for a large part of your life. After you’re gone, the house gets sold and everything in it gets cleared out, including that chair. Now someone who practices buys it, not knowing it ever belonged to you, and you also happen to practice. When they sit in that exact chair, they can get visions of what you used to do while on that chair.

If you visit a place that’s haunted, especially somewhere tied to a brutal murder. Sometimes the current left behind is so intense that it can spark visions of what happened. Even if the people involved have been dead for decades and the property has changed hands multiple times. And the people who were dead as well as the people living there now don’t practice at all.

So if someone does practice, they can intentionally leave something behind. If you make talismans for your family before you pass, those items can become heirlooms that last for a long time. If you teach what you’ve learned, share your spells, methods, or knowledge, the people helped by that may carry it forward until they’re gone too.

So yes, I’d say it continues, whether you practice or not.

AlfrunGrima · Jan 26, 2026

I am reading the thread again, I think it is interesting to make a distuinguish. There are people who are talking about what is physical left behind and there are who talk about what is energetically left behind. On a certain level, they can intertwine. But the energy legacy is a different leftover rather than the psysical because most of the time the physical is more a conduit/carrier. The energy legacy can be much harder to detect:

tetradicTendencies said:
if i successfully divine future events, does the magic "end" at the spell? or does it persist until the event occurs?

I was thinking a very visual thing: put a drop of ink in a bowl of water and watch what is happening. The drop is the magic. It dissolves and becomes part of the field, but it is not so recognizable anymore.

Keldan said:
If you teach what you’ve learned, share your spells, methods, or knowledge,

I think this is a good add, good to mention. Teaching change things. Teaching can be a magical act on its own.

So we have three currents of leftover so far: physical, energetic, teached legacy.

therootbeersprite · Jan 26, 2026

AlfrunGrima said:
Teaching change things. Teaching can be a magical act on its own.

Teaching can certainly be a magical act on its own, but at what point do we distinguish between a magical act and a mundane one? Even our mundane choices and actions have ripple effects.

AlfrunGrima · Jan 26, 2026

Difficult to say, things entwine more often than not.

muse4eveh · Jan 29, 2026

To me, It depends on the spell/ritual and how it was put into place + the specific intentions put into by the caster.

I'm not the most experienced with spells, I usually stick to divination and general research, so if I get something wrong super sorry- this isn't necessarily my area of expertise.
I feel like a normal spell or curse, with a simple intent, would be a no- after the practitioner is gone, there would no longer be a source for the spell to feed and gain energy from since the practitioner never explicitly put it into the spell for it to continue-
if a spell was made for the specific purpose of continuing after one's death, however, i'd assume it would continue because of the intention being placed previously. I personally see all magic being focused around intent, so something intended to last would last. I'd assume these spells would feed off the casters leftover energy/magic like a kind of battery, until there is nothing left and it finally does end longer after the practitioner is gone, or it will feed off the area around it- but to feed of off nature i'd assume would need the precedent intent for it to do as such.
group spells and ritual would also probably last longer since the aftermath of the spell would have more energy to feed off. This could easily be very wrong, though, because that puts into question what would happen to a person's spirit after they've gone. I guess it would depend on what i spirit runs off/ how ghosts work on a basic level and if energy is replenishable after death or not- maybe a spirit can replenish its energy if its still in this world, but one that's left our specific plain could? I don't know, all speculation.
This theory could easily change depending on our belief of spirits and what happens to a person's energy after they pass. it also depends completely on one's own beliefs of the afterlife and nature's magick as a whole.
could be wrong!! Genuinely a very interesting question, This is all just my idea of how it might work.

Frater R.P.G. · Jan 30, 2026

Short answer: Yes, it can.

I think in any magical model there's some form of persistence. Energy-wise, if you charge an object (material or imaginary), it is supposed to keep the charge for at least some time. That's how talismans or magical tools are supposed to work in that model. Depending on the power of the volume of that charge, it may persist long after the magician died. This would be especially true for magical tools used daily for many years and consequently being constantly charged.

Similarly in a spiritual model, spirits naturally are independent from the magician, so they can continue to operate after they die, provided that the spirit was bound by such a persistent contract. Similarly as above, talismans that are "charged" by being bound to spirits, as is common, should continue to work.

astralurosr · Jan 30, 2026

Morell said:
I've heard arguments going both ways. I wonder though, if it is real and about the conditions for it.

I assume that if the mage is solitary practitioner, then his magic fades with his death or soon after it as none other knows about the spell and it discharges and dissolves.

In an occult group it can turn different. If the mage starts a spell and teaches others about it, they can keep inheriting the secret and keep the magic going as long as they don't go too far from the original. Though even here I wonder if the slow change is the disadvantage or is just aspect of survival of the magic.

Thought?

The premise here quietly assumes something that doesn’t actually hold:
that magic exists “then,” “now,” “before,” and “after.”
That framework is already off.
There is no then or later for a working
A working does not persist because time passes or people remember it.
It persists only if it is alive.
And “alive” does not mean believed in.
It means actively instantiated.
If a solitary practitioner dies, nothing “fades later.”
Either the pattern is:
still being enacted → it exists
no longer enacted → it doesn’t
There is no delayed decay in time. There is only presence or absence.
Groups don’t preserve magic by inheritance
Groups don’t keep a working alive by passing secrets down a timeline.
They keep it alive only if each generation re-creates it in the present.
If people merely repeat:
words
symbols
gestures
without re-instantiating the original functional state, the working is already dead — even if the tradition continues.
Change isn’t the enemy.
Loss of vitality is.
“Survival” is the wrong metric
Magic does not “survive” like an object.
It is closer to:
a current in a circuit
a process in execution
a flame that must be burning now
If it’s burning, it exists.
If it’s not, it doesn’t.
No archive can replace that.
So what actually matters
Not:
solitary vs group
secrecy vs inheritance
fidelity to the original form
But:
Is the working alive in the present moment?
That’s the only condition.
Final clarification
Magic doesn’t live in time.
It lives in activation.
There is no after death effect to maintain.
There is only:
active → real
inactive → nonexistent
Everything else is storytelling layered on top.

AlfrunGrima · Jan 30, 2026

muse4eveh said:
I personally see all magic being focused around intent

There is intent, but things get charged with energy/power. The leftover spills over to diverse planes, but is not easy to recognize when you are on another plane. I have tested this many times: do a spell/ magic operation (I used always the same for it, worked with an object for that), start directly after astral travelling. On the other side I knew it had to be there, but found it rather hard to find or recognize. If you do this very often, there comes a moment you can recognize in the astral what you did IRL, but changed. The object, the intent and the energy/power around it where not exactly the same. The energy/power is more vibrating and open to interaction with the things around it, sort of open ended. The object is changed in size, got other accents in the color and often is hidden in something else, the intent becomes a story on the other side. You kindof can see that playing like a scene on television.

I have had some visions of spirits taking everything with them. Psychopomps? If you do not the astral travel directly after, you find (almost) no leftovers in the astral. My personal theory is that it flows over to the void and I never had the will and intention to go over to that. I wouldn't recognize it there, that's the very nature of the void.

If you try to experiment with this, keep in mind that it is possible that the magic won't give any results IRL. (ok you change yourself, but to mention that, is like kicking an open door) There is always a point where you need to let go the magic. Normally is that the case when it leaves us in this world, but if you follow it to the astral you don't let it go. You can however use the information you perceive there to change your magic operations. Think of timing, buildup of energy. Possibilities to create things can be found with these experiments @A.Nox I never tried this with the geometric magic we talked about. That would be a nice new route of experiments, but takes time. (think of months or even years)

(There is a topic about why to astral travel, this a example about how it can be used to test things)

(I don't think we have already a topic bout psychopomps, perhaps something for in the future to talk about, share the research and more important the experiences)

A.Nox · Jan 30, 2026

AlfrunGrima said:
There is intent, but things get charged with energy/power. The leftover spills over to diverse planes, but is not easy to recognize when you are on another plane. I have tested this many times: do a spell/ magic operation (I used always the same for it, worked with an object for that), start directly after astral travelling. On the other side I knew it had to be there, but found it rather hard to find or recognize. If you do this very often, there comes a moment you can recognize in the astral what you did IRL, but changed. The object, the intent and the energy/power around it where not exactly the same. The energy/power is more vibrating and open to interaction with the things around it, sort of open ended. The object is changed in size, got other accents in the color and often is hidden in something else, the intent becomes a story on the other side. You kindof can see that playing like a scene on television.

I have had some visions of spirits taking everything with them. Psychopomps? If you do not the astral travel directly after, you find (almost) no leftovers in the astral. My personal theory is that it flows over to the void and I never had the will and intention to go over to that. I wouldn't recognize it there, that's the very nature of the void.

If you try to experiment with this, keep in mind that it is possible that the magic won't give any results IRL. (ok you change yourself, but to mention that, is like kicking an open door) There is always a point where you need to let go the magic. Normally is that the case when it leaves us in this world, but if you follow it to the astral you don't let it go. You can however use the information you perceive there to change your magic operations. Think of timing, buildup of energy. Possibilities to create things can be found with these experiments @A.Nox I never tried this with the geometric magic we talked about. That would be a nice new route of experiments, but takes time. (think of months or even years)

(There is a topic about why to astral travel, this a example about how it can be used to test things)

(I don't think we have already a topic bout psychopomps, perhaps something for in the future to talk about, share the research and more important the experiences)

Thank you for the mention. Your observations match some of my own experiences — especially the part about how an operation “shifts” once it crosses planes.
I’ve been working with geometric structures mainly to stabilize intent and influence the direction of energy after manifestation.

I agree that following the residue into the astral could open a completely different route of experiments. It’s a long-term path, but definitely worth exploring further.
When I have more data, I’ll share it in the appropriate thread so others can compare their results as well.

[Opinion] Can magic keep being active after a magician dies?

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