About Evocations And Bodily Fluids.

[Crows&Ravens]

I was once told that if you give bodily fluids to demons (Goetia) then you are handing in your soul to that demon. if that is true then how does one retract that unknowingly deal they made with that demon?... apparently this is a rumour that spread through out the occult community to convince practitioners to not summon demons. This is also in a book that I bought on how to call fairies and it warns people to not give bodily fluids.... so I am completely clueless if it is a rumour.

The reasons why I ask is because I have found someone interested in the occult but I don't feel its right to pass on potentially doomed knowledge to someone that has no idea, neither do I.

 

[Roma]

The physical world (including physical fluids) is an effect and not a cause.

Some human physical fluids are carriers for astral fluids and higher. Thus the discharge of the physical fluid usually carries the higher fluids.

An example is the well known statement: The blood is the life. Which is to say that the spiritual life force is carried in the blood.

So the question becomes: If I give a bodily fluid to another creature/spirit as part of an agreement, does that give permission to that entity to interact with my subtle fluids in future?

And the answer may well be: Probably

I have never agreed to donate blood. Other fluids by human application only.

 

[Pyrokar]

In this context it's unlikely to unknowingly do this.
Even if you were to hit yourself on accident and have drops fall it means little outside of
intent and purpose. There is room for error here, if the one doing the spilling subconsciously aligns to the "deal"

Like signing a contract, you can be fooled into it but the signing is always yours.
and in the subconscious example above, if you can't "write" a simple X will do.

The Crowley gang certainly saw it's share of body fluids, but anyway
it's not for a rookie, at least not without supervision..

As for the larger question at hand, by my standards it is a rumor. We can't really give out our souls,
we can corrupt and ruin it plenty but not to give it away, it's not ours to give.

Even Faust had multiple chances to save his soul, despite the deal, it was his own recognition that he belongs in hell that was the deciding factor
we will be judged sooner or later, and that is when the soul might go to the demons, still not their property though.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I would strongly advise against sexual fluids, or blood use.

 

[William66]

I agree with above, giving your own blood as offering will give the spirits access, animal blood is a diffrent and something to think about.

 

[Crows&Ravens]

I was advised to use animal blood from the butches back on another forum that I was on, there was even a guide on using rats or pigeons but I'll spare the details on that. I'll tell the person that's its strongly advised not use their own blood for evocations but butches would be the best place. And if, when I plan to evoke I shall consider the butchers.

I do have my doubts in collecting blood from the butchers though because everything as an expiry date... will the blood still contain life force?

 

[Pyrokar]

I've seen plenty who go through the butchers, no reason why you couldn't.
but at this point you're so far removed from the process why even use it?
Just stick to the regular offerings, none of the fluids are a must as far as i know, even in the Goetia

Hmmm, anyone ever heard about tears being used like this?

 

[Crows&Ravens]

I was reading about a witch bottle that uses tears among other DNA But for evocations, no I haven't.
I always thought sexual fluids were best used for evoking as it contains "Life" blood being second.

Can't say much about tears but I'm pretty sure it mainly contains water. I need to do my research.

 

[Yazata]

I think Dion Fortune writes (somewhere) that the liquids are of use for 15 minutes after leaving the body.
There are indeed folks who use pig's blood etc, but if we can believe (my memory of) Dion Fortune this would add nothing but edgy awesomeness.

There was a time when I used some of my own blood every time I called Azazel, and I had even made a dagger that I had dedicated to him so that every time I cut my hand for another spirit, a part of the sacrifice then also (through the dagger) go to Azazel.
In a short three month pact with another spirit I gave tiny amounts of blood to the paper seal every time. This was a pretty "rewarding" or interesting pact, but to be honest I think there are more pleasant ways and things to offer.

 

[pixel_fortune]

My view is a) intent matters, like Pyrokar said, otherwise you'd lose your soul every time you grazed your knee in the wrong part of town

And b) that given with intent, blood creates a strong link but it doesn't transfer your soul over. Like if you put a drop of blood in a poppet, healing done to that poppet will heal you, because of the link. But the poppet doesn't have your soul now.

I also think it's completely possible to donate blood without creating a link, by going into it with the intent to withdraw that part of yourself from the blood given.

When I take flowers/leaves from a living plant, I tell it exactly which bits i'm going to take and where I'm going to make the cut, so it can decide whether or not to withdraw its spirit from that part. I've always done that since I was a kid. Maybe it's superstitious, who knows
¯⁠\ ⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠ /⁠¯

But presumably a demon wouldn't be that interested in you blood if you'd withdrawn your spirit from it; it's not asking cause it's low on iron. (I've never done any goetia stuff so this is random speculation)

 

[Telafiel]

I was once told that if you give bodily fluids to demons (Goetia) then you are handing in your soul to that demon. if that is true then how does one retract that unknowingly deal they made with that demon?... apparently this is a rumour that spread through out the occult community to convince practitioners to not summon demons. This is also in a book that I bought on how to call fairies and it warns people to not give bodily fluids.... so I am completely clueless if it is a rumour.

The reasons why I ask is because I have found someone interested in the occult but I don't feel its right to pass on potentially doomed knowledge to someone that has no idea, neither do I.

That's false.

Certain bodily fluids like blood or semen carry the DNA of the physical body your soul possesses. It means that by offering it, a link is created between the body (not necessarily the soul) and the entity who received the offering. Bodily fluids are physical. Therefore, it directly connected to the body, not the soul.

You can't "sell" your soul by offering your bodily fluids, because you are the soul, and you possess a physical body. You offer something taken from the physical body that carries energy - the essence of every offering. They take the energy from the offerings regardless of what they are (incense, candles, alcohol, meat, blood etc.).

Demons can access your body and transcendental body with ease (if you're not protected especially if you're in a low vibrational state), without the need for any offering. It just charges them and can provide a direct link to your physical body. As a result, they can reach out to you with less energy and effort than they usually would.
​

[ Offerings and sacrifices are not necessary ]
It is optional. Of course, if you ask something from a demon, it is the least that you compensate some way or another for the energy they put into helping you. Offerings are also a good way to work on your relationship with entities, including demons.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Pacts, petitions and sigils are harder to deal with than putting blood on an instrument you can break or toss in a fire pit. Imo. Which may or may not be an educated(?) Guess.

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

Can we all move past the 'lose your soul'/'sold your soul' nonsense that has been beaten to death already? You can't lose your soul any more than you can lose your mind. I mean the soul and mind are more-or-less one in the same, with some caveats obviously, but outside of a very few select niche circumstances you won't have to worry about such things as losing your soul.

As for fluids being a part of you, it more boils down to whether or not the involved parties recognize it as a part of you, which means it is entirely about intent and the physical 'materials' are irrelevant. I could draw a picture of turkeydog and say it's your spirit animal or some other mental gymnastics, then use that to attack you and you'd have no way to stop me without breaking my intent, if I wanted to anyways.

 

[Roma]

You can't lose your soul any more than you can lose your mind.

Lots of humans are thought to lose their minds. More specifically the mind loses/refuses contact with the brain. Usually the problem is toxicity or damage

In the Egyptian/Kabbalistic tradition there are 5 souls in the human. These are the indwelling spirits (lesser and greater devas) of the sacral chakra, solar plexus, head, heart and back of head (atma)

Trauma and toxicity are the usual reasons for these soul intelligences abandoning the human.

Severe autism is a common example as is dementia.

The Christian soul corresponds to the Neshama. The intelligence of that soul body (guardian/solar angel) will turn away from the human for various reasons including excessive damage/toxicity in the brain

I was involved with a case where the partial removal of aluminum from the brain resulted in the soul intelligence taking a further interest in the boy. His mother was very pleased with the improvement

In another case, a professional footballer had the physical trauma break loose the interface layer between the mind and brain. His wife reported noticeable improvements when the interface was partially reinstated. But his identical twin had the same problem and they were due for another paired incarnation so that took priority

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

Lots of humans are thought to lose their minds. More specifically the mind loses/refuses contact with the brain. Usually the problem is toxicity or damage

In the Egyptian/Kabbalistic tradition there are 5 souls in the human. These are the indwelling spirits (lesser and greater devas) of the sacral chakra, solar plexus, head, heart and back of head (atma)

Trauma and toxicity are the usual reasons for these soul intelligences abandoning the human.

Severe autism is a common example as is dementia.

The Christian soul corresponds to the Neshama. The intelligence of that soul body (guardian/solar angel) will turn away from the human for various reasons including excessive damage/toxicity in the brain

I was involved with a case where the partial removal of aluminum from the brain resulted in the soul intelligence taking a further interest in the boy. His mother was very pleased with the improvement

In another case, a professional footballer had the physical trauma break loose the interface layer between the mind and brain. His wife reported noticeable improvements when the interface was partially reinstated. But his identical twin had the same problem and they were due for another paired incarnation so that took priority

In the cases you described, the mind is still there, just not in the same form/shape it was before. The only way to truly lose a mind is to snuff it out completely, and in any case this whole conversation was about souls.

When you die, your current self/mind/soul returns to your higher self/true self/yourself as god, and every incarnation of you does that. Whether your higher self is just you or the All personified through the lens of your perception is a different discussion, but for the sake of this one, it doesn't matter if it's one way or the other.

 

[Roma]

When you die, your current self/mind/soul returns to your higher self/true self/yourself

If you listen to the second movement of Beethoven's third symphony, Eroica, you will hear his descriptions of the three deaths of the hero


Wagner's depiction of death is more complex with 7 stages occurring in Siegfried's Funeral March

 

[BloodOfBakula]

I was once told that if you give bodily fluids to demons (Goetia) then you are handing in your soul to that demon. if that is true then how does one retract that unknowingly deal they made with that demon?... apparently this is a rumour that spread through out the occult community to convince practitioners to not summon demons. This is also in a book that I bought on how to call fairies and it warns people to not give bodily fluids.... so I am completely clueless if it is a rumour.

The reasons why I ask is because I have found someone interested in the occult but I don't feel its right to pass on potentially doomed knowledge to someone that has no idea, neither do I.

Are we talking about pricking your finger, or spitting into your hand before the hand shake? I don't recall the Goetia mentioning anything about bodily fluids.

Pagan work is a different story, but books on working with dragons/fairies/etc are fantastic junk ( fake ).

Healthy blood, mensural blood, and semen are used in creating pacts, curses, and sex magic - both in empowering and commitment. Though you can use shapely man/woman/parts candles to reach the same affect.

 

[Xenophon]

In the cases you described, the mind is still there, just not in the same form/shape it was before. The only way to truly lose a mind is to snuff it out completely, and in any case this whole conversation was about souls.

When you die, your current self/mind/soul returns to your higher self/true self/yourself as god, and every incarnation of you does that. Whether your higher self is just you or the All personified through the lens of your perception is a different discussion, but for the sake of this one, it doesn't matter if it's one way or the other.

Isn't losing control of one's mind pretty much akin to loss of mind. Like driving my car only to find automated-driver technology is steering the course, not me. That pretty well describes a great many minds, even leaving demons out of the discussion.

 

[Zackalope]

I've seen plenty who go through the butchers, no reason why you couldn't.
but at this point you're so far removed from the process why even use it?
Just stick to the regular offerings, none of the fluids are a must as far as i know, even in the Goetia

Hmmm, anyone ever heard about tears being used like this?

I have unknowingly given tears during a ritual, and have been made aware after the fact that they had been accepted as offerings. I have found that they are indeed an accurate substance of offering when either healing, or the extraction of justice is concerned. They can also symbolize one's devotion to a particular cause or arrangement.

 

[Xenophon]

I have unknowingly given tears during a ritual, and have been made aware after the fact that they had been accepted as offerings. I have found that they are indeed an accurate substance of offering when either healing, or the extraction of justice is concerned. They can also symbolize one's devotion to a particular cause or arrangement.

This is interesting. I imagine they have to be sincerely shed though? That is, you can't work up tears when seeking retribution versus an ex-business partner by remembering your dead dog Fluffy from when you were a kid, right?