About gratitude

[Firetree]

Yes indeed , it sounds haughty and above everyone else .

Whereas Shade's post reverence meaning is clear ;

'' a

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for someone or something ( Miriam Webster ) : honor or respect felt or shown (Cambridge) ; deep respect, awe, and veneration. It is a strong feeling of honor or admiration for someone or something you find very important '' ( AI ) .

WE KNOW the definition and I am sure it is easily read by that . I note you ignore the definition of the word and had to resort to a little etymology ... hmmmmm ?

AND dictionary meanings define what is currently understood by a word . Etymology shows us its development through linguistics , not relevant here ... unless one is' clutching at straws ' .

In any case, when you quoted that etymology, why stop where you did ? It has a root in Prot- Indo European ;

The Proto-Indo-European (PIE) root of reverence is *wer-, which means "to perceive, watch, or look out for."

And I also note you didnt choose the word in question to try to pull apart ; gratitude ;


'' Gratitude is the warm feeling of thankfulness and appreciation for kindness, gifts, or good things in life. It means noticing the good things others do for you and wanting to say thank you''

MW ; appreciative of benefits received : feeling or showing thanks

Camb.

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or

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to another

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Etymology ;

traces its roots to the Latin word gratus, meaning "pleasing," "thankful," or "agreeable". It evolved into the Medieval Latin gratitudo ("thankfulness") and was adopted into Middle French before entering the English language in the mid-15th century to signify "good will". [

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The Deeper Roots of Gratitude

• • Proto-Indo-European (PIE) Origin: Linguists, such as those at the
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    , trace gratus back to the PIE root *gwere-, which translates to "to favor" or "to praise". [
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[Beyond Everything]

both have power and gratitude that there is something so powerful that can strike a feeling of awe inside you should make a person curious onto how to achieve such radiance, the middle ground is the gratitude. Not boot licking the king but also not showing disrespect,

I mean, if you feel you have to honor kings, do I need to say more about subservience? Why are you even linking this to kingship? I'll also clue you in on something- great, powerful entities absolutely do not give a shit if someone shows 'disrespect' to them, because they are so far above being concerned with such primate games.

Radiance (and that can be quite literal in meaning as far as transforming the physical and subtle bodies) isn't achieved by being in awe of anything, but by integrating with the hidden aspects of the self.

, like some psychopath that gets rich may experience something akin to joy externally but internally otndoesnt mean they reached a “higher realm”, that by definition is a materialist that is in a lower realm train of thought,

As if the only two options are being a psychopath or experiencing the internal subservience masked under the word 'gratitude'

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 8:56 AM

In any case, when you quoted that etymology, why stop where you did ?

Because they were defining gratitude by means of the word revenance, while saying the word has nothing to do with fear. The etymology is supposed to clue you into the larger history, ie R Otto's work.

 

[Firetree]

But you dont answer any other question significantly ,,, just select a small snippet , and even that doesnt make any sense ;

I asked why stop where you did and not go back to PIE roots of where the language started but select a point in time where an historical meaning suits your purpose and then you comment how it was supposed to clue to 'a larger history' ... when going back to PIE includes an even larger history than you cited . You are not making much sense .

You are not arguing very well or being consist in your argument against gratitude . Its not even so much that your opinion is disagreed with ... its the way you run your argument about gratitude that is faulty and full of holes .

An opinion is one thing .... a bad and illogical argument is another .

To go on further seems pointless as you keep running the same 'tactics' .

 

[Beyond Everything]

But you dont answer any other question significantly ,,, just select a small snippet , and even that doesnt make any sense ;

It doesn't make sense- to you, because you aren't capable of doing internal investigation of the energy involved, which is why you persist in giving the most boringly conventional viewpoints.

I asked why stop where you did and not go back to PIE roots of where the language started .

Because we're not tracing language, we're tracing energy/emotions/concepts/cultural concepts. I pointed out the historical linkage with fear to reverence because being in awe before a 'superior' power is a submissive posture. Im not going to rehash the whole back and forth. Never did I state that my views on gratitude are reliant on language, I was pointing out one specific thing to someone else.

To go on further seems pointless as you keep running the same 'tactics' .

I'm pointing out the way to superior development. You're stuck with pedantic 'points' and carping.

 

[stalkinghyena]

I'm pointing out the way to superior development.

You should write a tutorial.

 

[Firetree]

Now its claimed not having gratitude is a way to 'superior development '

Whatever that was supposed to mean .

Other views on gratitude and development ;

'' Gratitude accelerates superior personal and professional development by rewiring neural pathways, enhancing emotional intelligence, and fostering resilient relationships. Instead of focusing on what is lacking, practicing appreciation stabilizes stress hormones, sharpens focus on actionable goals, and builds the foundational mental tools needed to overcome adversity. ''



'' Studies from the

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indicate that gratitude activates the prefrontal cortex—the area of the brain responsible for decision-making, emotional regulation, and productivity. ''


'' Stress Reduction: Expressing thanks regulates the hypothalamus and reduces cortisol (the stress hormone), leading to better sleep and heightened physical energy. ''


'' Shift in Perspective: Gratitude replaces negative emotions like entitlement, envy, and bitterness with a growth-oriented mindset, making it easier to reframe past failures and find meaning in difficult circumstances ''

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[/URL]

 

[Beyond Everything]

Now its claimed not having gratitude is a way to 'superior development '

I pointed out the activation of the hidden self is not facilitated through emotional responses and submissive stances, and is in fact hindered by such. Not that merely not experiencing gratitude will develop someone. I already told you this earlier in the thread

Whatever that was supposed to mean .

You are eager to display your incomprehension.

Your 'scientific evidence' is not very compelling. One of the studies concludes 'Although these findings do not provide evidence for a direct effect of gratitude on health and should be interpreted with caution (given their correlational nature and lack of clinical health outcomes)'. In any case, they have zero to do with higher esoteric development, but discuss mundane benefits that can be more effectively achieved through meditation in general anyway.

That bee in your bonnet is busy buzzing.

 

[Firetree]

Again , you had to include 'submissive stances' and the like in your personal definition , which no one here seems to think has anything to do with expressing gratitude .

I also note you and your opinion cant seem to bring ANY supporting evidence to the table except your say so and continual bragging about YOU and your so called 'higher development ' .



- its not that hard to allow oneself to feel gratitude ... I even feel gratitude after reading your posts .

 

[Beyond Everything]

- its not that hard to allow oneself to feel gratitude ... .

You're experiencing a primate, instinctual emotion mediated by your cultural conditioning. That's nothing special or anything to write home about. 'Gratitude' evolved in primates as a way of fitting within a social structure, ensuring conformity. Primitive tribal systems and dogmatic religions exploited it to enforce certain worldviews. Discarnate predatory beings exploit it to maintain dominance over clueless humans. Societal hierarchies exploit to keep slaves in line.

True occult development is about getting behind everything, deconstructing what is just given, finding the energies at the roots of things, and transforming them. Your discussion of this topic is on the level of Oprah Winfrey and pop science articles.

 

[Firetree]

No, you have gone of into submission again . You cant seem to separate submission , and some concept of 'forced gratitude', from what people here have been describing .

Post after post of you insisting we must be feeling the way you declare to us . I also note you try veiled insults directed at others to 'affirm your superior viewpoint ' .

That says a lot !

Also you know NOTHING about my past , how I might have been in my past and what type of cultural conditioning I have had.

For all you know , I might have been an angry egotist like you , for most of my life , and then had a magical turn around in later life .... you have no clue about how I found the benefits of expressing gratitude , no clue at all , I know that because of what you attempt to attribute it to .

I actually have a huge amount of research on this , which is where I discovered the importance of the principle , but I would not waste its wealth by posting it here in this current little mini toxic environment you have generated .

I think you yourself must have some conditioning on this and had an experienced where you were forced into submission and had to accept that , and it has made you angry and bitter about it . Its clear from your responses , and your refusals to see alternatives to your own , rather 'singular' opinions .

 

[Beyond Everything]

.

For all you know , I might have been an angry egotist like you

I already pointed out the obstructional force of emotions in relation to the hidden aspects of self. So, that includes anger as well as gratitude. So if I do experience anything like that, I promptly do energywork to transmute it.

You can type whatever you want about your 'huge research', but what you've so far presented is commonplace and mediocre. Whereas I'm indicating an important clue to esoteric transformation. Any good primate of whatever species can experience gratitude. Only a few transform themselves in the more profound sense.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

You're experiencing a primate, instinctual emotion mediated by your cultural conditioning. That's nothing special or anything to write home about. 'Gratitude' evolved in primates as a way of fitting within a social structure, ensuring conformity. Primitive tribal systems and dogmatic religions exploited it to enforce certain worldviews. Discarnate predatory beings exploit it to maintain dominance over clueless humans. Societal hierarchies exploit to keep slaves in line.

True occult development is about getting behind everything, deconstructing what is just given, finding the energies at the roots of things, and transforming them. Your discussion of this topic is on the level of Oprah Winfrey and pop science articles.

Your responses are primate in nature, dude. You get heated and upset over every tiny incongruency between the opinions of others and yourself. That reactionary response is called "chimping out" for a reason. I suggest you actually spend some time practicing something today instead of preaching.

"Disincarnate predatory beings"? Life advice for you: Get gud. That line shows the sum of your incompetence despite all your egoistic pontification. If you still are at the whim of nature spirits, you ain't in a position to be telling others what they should do or how they should do it. Demonstrate exceptionalism and others will take note.

 

[Beyond Everything]

You get heated and upset

This is entirely in your own head.

Instead of whining about me, you'd be better off contemplating the esoteric things I've told you. Including the self-reflective awake awareness (which I tried to explain to you is not the same as mindfulness) and its relation to the hidden aspects of self- and the role emotion plays as an obstructional force between them.

 

[Firetree]

This is entirely in your own head.

Instead of whining about me, you'd be better off contemplating the esoteric things I've told you.

I think we should all whine at you together and you should contemplate the things we have told you , that seem to exist only in your head .

Actually you should be grateful to us for this dynamic .

Including the self-reflective awake awareness (which I tried to explain to you is not the same as mindfulness) and its relation to the hidden aspects of self- and the role emotion plays as an obstructional force between them.

And why cant gratitude and ' self-reflective awake awareness ' co -exist ? Some maintain one generates the other .

That is aside from your statement that ' emotion plays as an obstructional force between them ' , do you try to eliminate and suppress your emotions in order to generate this 'power' you feel you have ?

The issue here could be that the obstruction is actually 'emotions in conflict ' .... emotional imbalance .

Emotional balance welcomes gratitude .... to be bitter against gratitude and blame it and , now it seems , all emotions ..... ummmmm ... that seems to go against very basic foundations of magic .

Who has the four elemental weapons / tools and then decides to throw the cup out the window ?

 

[Beyond Everything]

And why cant gratitude and ' self-reflective awake awareness ' co -exist ?

That isn't what was stated- and the role emotion plays as an obstructional force between them.

As far as '4 elemental weapons' that's simply something Levi made up and weak sauce Golden Dawn teachings picked up. Balancing the elements is not the same thing as the expression of an emotion. Emotions can have specific operative utility for very specific practical results, but gratitude doesn't actually do anything. It's a 'ride along' to the process of manifestation. And for many, many people throughout time it just keeps them in whatever undesirable position in life they already occupy. And more importantly, it is a bar to the integration to the hidden self, which is a power unto itself and only integrates when approached as such. That's why devotional practices like the HGA have such inconsistent results compared to the wild promises made about them. People Self-alienate in all sorts of profound and subtle ways, including translating the primate instinct of gratitude into the spiritual sphere wherein it is not the fullness of Self that manifests, but dependence on something else.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

This is entirely in your own head.

Instead of whining about me, you'd be better off contemplating the esoteric things I've told you. Including the self-reflective awake awareness (which I tried to explain to you is not the same as mindfulness) and its relation to the hidden aspects of self- and the role emotion plays as an obstructional force between them.

You don't know anything esoteric. All of your posts are exoteric. You've never made a post about anything you've accomplished.

Accomplish something, then you'll be on my radar. But I've heard plenty of manic patients say they cured their depression, so try a real accomplishment. That is the only thing you've claimed to have done with magic.

Why are you even here?

 

[Beyond Everything]

That is the only thing you've claimed to have done with magic.

lol You responded to my post about this.

Magic and Large amounts of Money

It's interesting how very scant are any examples of people using magic to get a lot of money. I mean using magic exclusively, not someone working very hard and supplementing that with magic that may or may not have worked. The well-known (in Italy) esotericist Kremmerz was notorious for his...

wizardforums.com

What real results have you achieved with magic?

This question probably won’t get many answers, since many people prefer not to make the results of their magical work public. But maybe not everyone follows that rule. I’d love to hear about your experiences: what real, tangible results have you achieved in the material world through magic? Not...

wizardforums.com

Once again you don't know what you're talking about, and you let your emotions rule your posts.

 

[Firetree]

That isn't what was stated- and the role emotion plays as an obstructional force between them.

As far as '4 elemental weapons' that's simply something Levi made up and weak sauce Golden Dawn teachings picked up.

and something thousands of people have found as a useful and applicable metaphor ever since .

Balancing the elements is not the same thing as the expression of an emotion.

Of course it isn't . Do I really have to go through such elementally basic magical attributions for you ? In balancing the elements as they apply to the self means two things ; balancing the counterparts of those elements in the self ; you know air is mind , water is emotions , earth is physical body and so on ; balancing those and having them in order . The second is balance within the range of emotions themselves .

EG .. being a complaining judgmental grumble bum all the time , is not balanced .

Emotions can have specific operative utility for very specific practical results, but gratitude doesn't actually do anything.

Not for you apparently , that does not mean it did not have positive results for many people , cross culturally across the centuries .

It's a 'ride along' to the process of manifestation. And for many, many people throughout time it just keeps them in whatever undesirable position in life they already occupy.

NO that's servitude . Again, you keep attaching negatives and changing their name to 'gratitude'' to try and make your point .

But you are not doing very well in that ,

And more importantly, it is a bar to the integration to the hidden self, which is a power unto itself and only integrates when approached as such.

No it isn't and you have not demonstrated in any way that it is, just a personal insisting assertion .

That's why devotional practices like the HGA have such inconsistent results compared to the wild promises made about them.

'Devotional practices like the HGA ' ?? One assumes you mean practices geared towards realization / contact / communication with HGA . By not defining them , you suggest variant practices and of course variant practices will show inconsistent results .

Also they show inconsistent results because people are inconsistent and will do the same ritual differently or change it * and even if they don't , people by nature are individuals so why should not the results of such an intimate operation differ from person to person even when the rituals the same . This, to me , indicates one that has no real experience with such rituals , especially any results .

* another post here on another forum talks about Marcus Katz doing the Abramelin ritual ... of yeah, he is one of the guys that 'did it ' , he did it while working at his 'office job' and interacting with his family ..... all those things you are supposed to retire from when doing it . That is a typical example .

People Self-alienate in all sorts of profound and subtle ways, including translating the primate instinct of gratitude into the spiritual sphere wherein it is not the fullness of Self that manifests, but dependence on something else.

I never had an instinct towards gratitude at all ... I too, at one stage was a spoiled little 1st world westerner that complained because I felt I never had enough privileges or wealth .

Dependence on something else seems to really urk you huh ? How do you feel about the air and you having to depend on it being there for you to breathe ?

 

[Beyond Everything]

NO that's servitude . Again, you keep attaching negatives and changing their name to 'gratitude'' to try and make your point .

As if millions upon millions of people living in terrible conditions haven't been taught by religious overseers to always be grateful for what little they have.

Also they show inconsistent results because people are inconsistent and will do the same ritual differently or change it * and even if they don't , people by nature are individuals so why should not the results of such an intimate operation differ from person to person even when the rituals the same . This, to me , indicates one that has no real experience with such rituals , especially any results .

Inconsistent isn't the best description . Vastly oversold is better

* another post here on another forum talks about Marcus Katz doing the Abramelin ritual ... of yeah, he is one of the guys that 'did it ' , he did it while working at his 'office job' and interacting with his family ..... all those things you are supposed to retire from when doing it . That is a typical example .

Our two most famous examples of knowledge and conversation of the HGA are those of Crowley and Regardie. Crowley afterwards couldn't even kick his heroin habit, which is a crystal clear sign of spiritual impotence. Regardie would spend a lot of time chatting with his 'angel' and ended up at the close of his life regretting even wasting time on the version of magic he had devoted so many years to. It's painted as this great accomplishment, but all I see are people getting various mystical 'feels'. What it does NOT do is intergrate with the hidden self, because anyone who has experienced that could easily resist heroin and would never have regret over being involved in that kind of esoteric practice.

I never had an instinct towards gratitude at all ... I too, at one stage was a spoiled little 1st world westerner that complained because I felt I never had enough privileges or wealth .

You seem confused. Only expressing something later in life doesn't mean it is not an instinct.

Dependence on something else seems to really urk you huh ? How do you feel about the air and you having to depend on it being there for you to breathe ?

We are talking about the esoteric level. At least I am. Your responses are as banal as always. They mainly consist of you parroting things youve heard and read.

 

[Firetree]

lol You responded to my post about this.

Magic and Large amounts of Money

It's interesting how very scant are any examples of people using magic to get a lot of money. I mean using magic exclusively, not someone working very hard and supplementing that with magic that may or may not have worked. The well-known (in Italy) esotericist Kremmerz was notorious for his...

wizardforums.com

What real results have you achieved with magic?

This question probably won’t get many answers, since many people prefer not to make the results of their magical work public. But maybe not everyone follows that rule. I’d love to hear about your experiences: what real, tangible results have you achieved in the material world through magic? Not...

wizardforums.com

Once again you don't know what you're talking about, and you let your emotions rule your posts.

It doesnt appear that way as you yourself admit you are mostly 'transcendental ' aspirations (no results mentioned ) and any 'results' you get dont even seem to come from practicing magic , just ' happened anyway ' with little mundane effort ;

''
By far, my main interest in the occult has to do with extreme transcendental aspirations, but despite that I have attracted money, relationships, and other things of some significance- and these things often manifested for me with little or no mundane effort (which itself is good for one's evidential hoard).