• Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!

Ancient Greece and Western Mystery Schools

Audiolog Edu

Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2024
Messages
87
Reaction score
77
Awards
1
Aparently Greece was the first Country in the Western World where Mystery Schools started, they had the Orphic Mysteries, Eleusinian Mysteries, the Oracle of Delphi, Etc. Ive also heard Pitagoras spent time in Egypt, studying Isis Mysteries, and then initiated in Greece into other Mystery schools, probably creating his own.
Egypt already had its own Mystery schools, with mystical and ritualistic texts like The Pyramid Texts, The Coffin Texts and The Book of the Dead reflects the tradition and initiatory practices in ancient Egypt but Greece helped take this mysteries to Europe and changed religion, culture, art forever after but some ceased after christianity.
Also the Hellenistic period (4th century BCE) helped syncretice and spread Greek culture from Greece and Egypt in the west to India in the east.
 

Magpie

Neophyte
Joined
Aug 4, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
26
Do you think that abundant similarities between Greek and Indian traditions means they came from Greece and were not simply developed independently in India? I was wondering about it myself - timescales were very close. Pointless to list all the common themes between them, you know more about them than me.
 

Audiolog Edu

Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2024
Messages
87
Reaction score
77
Awards
1
I actually think many traditions started in India, as I was researching Taoist teachings did reached Mesopotamia but I think Greece syncretice cultures around the Hellenistic period, adopting others religions and initiatory practices, I am not that good in the topic, Im barely researching on YouTube :p
Post automatically merged:

Do you think that abundant similarities between Greek and Indian traditions means they came from Greece and were not simply developed independently in India? I was wondering about it myself - timescales were very close. Pointless to list all the common themes between them, you know more about them than me.
Also I forgot to mentioned one important point is that Qabalah evolved in Greece, it was not the same, so maybe some things that Greek Mystery schools had where improved in Ancient Greece.
 
Last edited:

Mars

Zealot
Joined
Jan 26, 2024
Messages
121
Reaction score
174
Awards
2
Aparently Greece was the first Country in the Western World where Mystery Schools started, they had the Orphic Mysteries, Eleusinian Mysteries, the Oracle of Delphi, Etc. Ive also heard Pitagoras spent time in Egypt, studying Isis Mysteries, and then initiated in Greece into other Mystery schools, probably creating his own.
Egypt already had its own Mystery schools, with mystical and ritualistic texts like The Pyramid Texts, The Coffin Texts and The Book of the Dead reflects the tradition and initiatory practices in ancient Egypt but Greece helped take this mysteries to Europe and changed religion, culture, art forever after but some ceased after christianity.
Also the Hellenistic period (4th century BCE) helped syncretice and spread Greek culture from Greece and Egypt in the west to India in the east.

Yes I can confirm this. If you read plato's works on the soul or pythagorean texts it really is almost like the vedas. But he never ever went to Hindustan or had people from there visit him. He wasn't aware of this country or hinduism. Yet he came to many many same conclusions as they did.

This is likely that he tapped into the "eternal truth" in spirituality. Fitting, since the actual term for Hinduism in sanskrit is "Sanatana Dharma" which means eternal order/truth/ rule.


Greece and egyptian spiritual thought was birthed by Atlantean thought. Now it is similar and anciently connected to Hindu thought. As the vedas are said to come from Hyperborea via the steppes. And Hyperborea settled the island that became Atlantis.

It is both the same concept, they just survived differently over the millenia and had some changes through it, but underlying it is the same. And thus completely different from like african traditions.
 

Magpie

Neophyte
Joined
Aug 4, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
26
Yes, the resemblance is uncanny. It was likely carried for generations among Indo-European peoples. If there was a transfer between Greece and India, it would likely be from Greece to India, given Alexandrian expansion, but Vedas are slightly older than Pythagorean teachings and of course Egyptian teachings are the oldest. So they probably all had it all the way through.

Does Africa have any 'tradition' in the sense we use here? Of course I mean sub-Saharan part. I may have shallow understanding of those practices, but they seem to be more subconscious orientated rather than superconscious, like Egyptian, Hellenic and Vedic traditions are.
 

Altan

Neophyte
Joined
Aug 3, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
53
Plato, Solon (a few hundred years earlier), and other wealthy classical Greeks had been initiated into the Egyptian mysteries. They paid a fee, so it was probably some watered down version. India, Persia and Greece were Indo-European cultures, and there are common elements in language as well as mythology, as the cultures likely share prehistoric roots.

Greeks may not have been in contact with Indian culture pre-Alexander, but the Persians were, and after the wars of the 5th century BCE Greeks often served as mercenaries in Persian armies. Even prior, Persia already had conquered Asia minor that was colonized for centuries already. Indian astrology is said to have come from Babylon, since Egyptian astrology differed, until it too copied several elements.

The mysteries were similar to shamanic initiations, only the Greeks brought them to a level of mass practice. The Greek theater tradition also evolved from the worship of Dionysus (with the word Tragedy meaning Goat-Song, from the cries of the goat being sacrificed to the god). Egyptian culture was full of festivals that had mystery-like qualities, like dramatic enactments and mind-altering substances. The ancient world wasn't so segregated as we might think, I would say.

The unique contribution of the Greeks was to scale the religious element from the mystical to the level where human reasoning and individuality had a handle on it. The Greeks were the first to put number values to their letters, and the Hebrew alphabet added those during the Hellenistic period. Since Jews could not worship idols, however, all their mystical focus was on the power of the word. The Greeks did have a similar esoteric view of their alphabet, but since they had several versions of it, and since it wasn't their only avenue of mystical expression, it wasn't as central in their world-view.
 

MagickalStudent569

Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2023
Messages
56
Reaction score
76
Awards
1
Aparently Greece was the first Country in the Western World where Mystery Schools started, they had the Orphic Mysteries, Eleusinian Mysteries, the Oracle of Delphi, Etc. Ive also heard Pitagoras spent time in Egypt, studying Isis Mysteries, and then initiated in Greece into other Mystery schools, probably creating his own.
Egypt already had its own Mystery schools, with mystical and ritualistic texts like The Pyramid Texts, The Coffin Texts and The Book of the Dead reflects the tradition and initiatory practices in ancient Egypt but Greece helped take this mysteries to Europe and changed religion, culture, art forever after but some ceased after christianity.
Also the Hellenistic period (4th century BCE) helped syncretice and spread Greek culture from Greece and Egypt in the west to India in the east.

I mean all that is true, but we really don't know what shamanic initiation rites of the ancient Druids, Germanic Tribes, Norse, Balt's or Slavs had. So. while technically true, it can be said in actually at the time it probably wasn't the case. We only know about Greece because the Greeks loved documenting themselves in as much details as possible and Romans copied this. The other cultures of Europe at the time did not have a habit of documenting religious practices in written form but that doesn't that none as rich in tradition as Greco-Romans existed at all.
 

Altan

Neophyte
Joined
Aug 3, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
53
And I agree with what you are saying. But I'm coming from it from a practical point of view. What we do know is that Druids are Indo-Europeans, like the Germanic peoples etc. We also know that there is a common thread among all shamanism practices, the world over, but especially among Indo-Europeans. The practices had common themes.

We also have some details from the Greco-Roman, and we have an oral tradition that came down into Christian times. Let's not forget the Norse, who did leave some records, even if they are remnants of an older oral tradition. Nevertheless, Iceland kept its traditions intact well into the Middle Ages.

The traditions evolve. They have evolved in Greece, India, China, as well as Scandinavia, which apparently transformed existing petroglyph symbols into runes inspired by the Latin alphabet, and it worked great for them. As I am not a scholar who wants to take a snapshot of every detail of practice, I can take the term Neo-Druid as an extrapolation of both available data and esoteric understanding- and there is enough to do so, in my opinion, I would deem the practices sufficient to be at the very least a legitimate inheritor of the original.

Otherwise, any tradition would be halted because the march of time leaves nothing unscathed. Greeks and Romans did leave records, but just how many of those records have been lost (Library of Alexandria going up in flames more than once, for example)? So the Greek mystery tradition doesn't have all that much data because of the secrecy, but the few accounts we do have allowed some extrapolation.
 

Mars

Zealot
Joined
Jan 26, 2024
Messages
121
Reaction score
174
Awards
2
And I agree with what you are saying. But I'm coming from it from a practical point of view. What we do know is that Druids are Indo-Europeans, like the Germanic peoples etc. We also know that there is a common thread among all shamanism practices, the world over, but especially among Indo-Europeans. The practices had common themes.

We also have some details from the Greco-Roman, and we have an oral tradition that came down into Christian times. Let's not forget the Norse, who did leave some records, even if they are remnants of an older oral tradition. Nevertheless, Iceland kept its traditions intact well into the Middle Ages.

The traditions evolve. They have evolved in Greece, India, China, as well as Scandinavia, which apparently transformed existing petroglyph symbols into runes inspired by the Latin alphabet, and it worked great for them. As I am not a scholar who wants to take a snapshot of every detail of practice, I can take the term Neo-Druid as an extrapolation of both available data and esoteric understanding- and there is enough to do so, in my opinion, I would deem the practices sufficient to be at the very least a legitimate inheritor of the original.

Otherwise, any tradition would be halted because the march of time leaves nothing unscathed. Greeks and Romans did leave records, but just how many of those records have been lost (Library of Alexandria going up in flames more than once, for example)? So the Greek mystery tradition doesn't have all that much data because of the secrecy, but the few accounts we do have allowed some extrapolation.

Another aspect is, now that I think about it. Because OP asked and stated that modern druids are nothing like the original ones, because of the lack of knowledge and records that survived.

But aren't modern britains even like the original bretons?
Just 500 years ago the english language in britain was completely different to today. And 1000 years back it was more similar to west German dialects. And during the times of Arthur it was a different language alltogether. Yet they still call themselves "Britains" and act like it and call back to their heritage.

Perhaps modern druids can exist and while they may not be like the original druids, they try to carry on the torch to the best of their abilities. Perhaps this is what counts.

Like the people who build stonehenge knew exactly what it was supposed to do. And today? No one can say for certain. They can't even say how the stones were cut/ molten and how it was build. And stonehenge was pre Arthurian too.

Or the pyramids. They have been built and those that did it knew what it was supposed to do and use it. Then the dynasties came, put their dead kings in there and suddenly it was a tomb. Yet ancient egyptian records state that they themselves do not know what the pyramids are supposed to do. Some 6k year old stone inscription state that they try to restore parts of something broken on the pyramid and how their repairs looked so shit and inadequate compared to the original parts and they say "How did they even built this if we can't even repair them?" And the repairs they did disintegrated faster than the original structure.

Or more modern. Roman concrete. We have aqueducts and water systems here in europe that have been in place since the romans. They work better than our modern stuff and it just doesn't disintegrate. The water pipeline to vienna is the same the romans build for example. Or in spain, a random "wall" the romans build turned out to be a barrier for flooding. It happened a few weeks ago, and that barrier perfectly saved a city. People didn't even thought that it was meant as a flooding barrier. As those floods only appear every 500 years perhaps. It was such a fringe use for them.

Or greek fire. Yes it might be Napalm but still.

Lost technology. Or imagine a blacksmith in Venezia that made nails for roman warships. Nails that never rust. No one today know how they did it. Because the technology "became obsolete". Since now we weld things together or cast them.

Likewise it's with other technologies. And then they dig up little gimmicks and tools in Iraq from sumer times and they simply can not fathdom what it was or supposed to do. A battery? A lightbulb?

Likewise its with tradition and spiritual practices. Evola stated that humanity is not evolving, but continually devolving. Forgetting everything.

People that lived on atlantis 13.000 years ago might have known about things we dont even assume.

Like take radioactivity for example. This exists and existed long before Curie "discovered" it. It existed during roman times, but people couldn't imagine this.

Or radiowaves. Do you even know how cell towers function? It is the most insane stuff you can think about. Compared to remote viewing, it seems that remote viewing is more "scientifically sound" than millions of charged air particles carrying what I just typed out on my phone to whoever wants to read it. Imagine this. What I just wrote traveled to space and back in the matter of a split second. All through the air and vacuum. Carried by charged electrons. And somehow we have mcguffins that can translate those charged electrons to pixels on the screen.

And who knows people in 500 year might have forgotten how to do even this. It sounds ridiculous after all right? Sending modulated electricity through the entire earth. But not just once, millions of times in a second (thats what hertz is meaning) and not just that but 20 Million different ways. Since we have radio, TV, other comms, other people using phones. And they all do not interefere with each other. How peculiar. No one will belief you if you tried to explain it, yet it works.
 

MagickalStudent569

Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2023
Messages
56
Reaction score
76
Awards
1
Otherwise, any tradition would be halted because the march of time leaves nothing unscathed. Greeks and Romans did leave records, but just how many of those records have been lost (Library of Alexandria going up in flames more than once, for example)? So the Greek mystery tradition doesn't have all that much data because of the secrecy, but the few accounts we do have allowed some extrapolation.
Yes that's one thing the modern mystery traditions like the Masons, Rosicrucian's, or Golden Dawn have on their ancient counterparts. Too much secrecy, a lack of documentation, a change in language and culture... and POOF! Your traditions vanishes into the sands of time!
 
Top