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Are demonized pagan gods of the Goetia their own being or apart of the original deity?

FireBorn

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I recently did a deep dive into Goetic etymology, chased the names through historical literature, primary sources, the works. Honest assessment? Most of them are Goetic natives with no traceable pre Christian origin. Only a handful stand out as legitimately older.

If you're in love with the mystical narrative around the Lemegeton's origins, the historical record will disappoint you. Sometimes it's better to just work with what's there rather than chase the backstory (read as: almost always)

That said, yes, I do believe the Jews deliberately demonized certain pagan deities and spirits. It was like a theological crowd control, a way to ensure no one burned offerings to competing entities, cause apparently thats bad. They weren't the first culture to do this and won't be the last.

To your actual question though; Vepar and Bitru have no historical evidence of anything predating the Book of Offices, which was Weyer's source for the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum, which fed into the Lemegeton. Goetic natives. And yet both are completely real to me. Whatever the historical story is, it doesn't change what shows up when you work with them.

Asteroth is one of the strongest cases of historical ties predating the Book of Offices. We just have to be careful about whats actually historical and accurate, and whats internet stuff that people think sounds cool. The latter being a cancer within the occult as a whole.

In my personal opinion, encountering a demon is incredible enough without the extras.

The messiness of the origins is just humans being human. It doesn't touch the reality of the contact.
 
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even baal was a deity. Its not uncommon for a devil to take on a persona. Humans define a persona, an entity takes it on to feed off humans.

So yes some of the ars goetia are deities, and some of the ars goetia are deities in disguise. In a particular case i discovered christ to be lucifer because the light christ shines is an illusion and lucifer is a master of light as an illusion in terms of skills.

Basically despite religious claims, religions that have you hand over your soul to them are definitely of the devil type, and while the religious will demonise others, they themselves are worshipping devils.

The translation of the demonic bible writes this at the start before getting down to pointless rituals of working with them. I wouldnt bother with the rituals but the theory is indeed accurate about religion.
 
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So theres the comparative mythology/religious studies approach that traces them as a lineage of old gods demonized by the church... and then theres actually interfacing with them through evocation. I can guarantee you that what ever you come into contact with using goetia proper is not a diety and is a demon by its nature. How that works I am not sure, but when you use solomonic magic to evoke Ashteroth it is not the same thing that you experience when you work with the goddess Astarte.
 
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So theres the comparative mythology/religious studies approach that traces them as a lineage of old gods demonized by the church... and then theres actually interfacing with them through evocation. I can guarantee you that what ever you come into contact with using goetia proper is not a diety and is a demon by its nature. How that works I am not sure, but when you use solomonic magic to evoke Ashteroth it is not the same thing that you experience when you work with the goddess Astarte.
solomonic magick uses angels which is different from raw dogging with them.
 

Morell

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If you're in love with the mystical narrative around the Lemegeton's origins, the historical record will disappoint you. Sometimes it's better to just work with what's there rather than chase the backstory (read as: almost always)
Definitely true. I must say the same for modern vampirism. You go to history, there is nothing but wishful thinking about new system that evolved from the past but on itself is new and doesn't exactly have any ancient roots.
 
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