[Help] Are there people like Crowley or Lon Duquette, who didn't take an oath of secrecy?

[dababy10]

What I mean by the above is, people who deeply studied occult knowledge, know initiate secrets, etc etc... And wrote about it? I love lon duquette's work but the only thing that annoys me is that he took a secrecy oath so I know I'm not getting everything from reading him. Are there any weird exceptions where people never took an oath yet still got taught, and released what they knew?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I never took any oath, and I published the results of thirty years of work

Not sure I'd put myself in the same league as those guys though

 

[dababy10]

I never took any oath, and I published the results of thirty years of work

Not sure I'd put myself in the same league as those guys though

Where can I find your work?

 

[beardedeldridge]

What I mean by the above is, people who deeply studied occult knowledge, know initiate secrets, etc etc... And wrote about it? I love lon duquette's work but the only thing that annoys me is that he took a secrecy oath so I know I'm not getting everything from reading him. Are there any weird exceptions where people never took an oath yet still got taught, and released what they knew?

This is not what you’re asking but gatekeeping isn’t really that big of a deal. I mean sure they try but with the internet these days and how magic works... For the most part, the value of working thru a system is actually working thru the system, not in the super secret handshake (rituals) at the end.

-Eld

 

[dababy10]

This is not what you’re asking but gatekeeping isn’t really that big of a deal. I mean sure they try but with the internet these days and how magic works... For the most part, the value of working thru a system is actually working thru the system, not in the super secret handshake (rituals) at the end.

-Eld

Ah, Yeah I'm not that interested in rituals specific to orders, moreso the actual knowledge the order was founded on if you know what I mean.

So a system alone is mosy of what you need?

 

[beardedeldridge]

Ah, Yeah I'm not that interested in rituals specific to orders, moreso the actual knowledge the order was founded on if you know what I mean.

So a system alone is mosy of what you need?

What you need is to work magic not so much a formal system.



While a formal system can be helpful in the fact that it gives you a sort of road map to follow and in a formal setting it by design causes you to work thru it slowly, which can be helpful when you’re essentially feeling your way thru the dark (which isn’t an inaccurate way of looking at what we do).



But it can also be a hinderance, since no system/group has it perfect (or even mostly right imo), you are essentially recreating the combined steps of the ones who created the “map”, both helpful and erroneous ones, and coming to a similar destination. Not wrong or right I guess, just depends on what you’re looking for. But at least it provides you with a map to work off of.



Now let’s say you found one of these groups’ “holy grail”, in my experience, you would find as much noise as signal, if not more. While a group can hold each other accountable, push each other farther down this path, and use their combined experiences to great effect, they are also combing their egos/biases/dogma/errors.



Now if you could get a lot of these groups “secrets” you could probably look for common threads and that could prove interesting. But in the end, this stuff can’t be spoon fed to you either, it’s not the pursuit of truth as much as it’s the truth in the pursuit. It’s the searching that’s the real hidden treasure.



-Eld

 

[dababy10]

What you need is to work magic not so much a formal system.



While a formal system can be helpful in the fact that it gives you a sort of road map to follow and in a formal setting it by design causes you to work thru it slowly, which can be helpful when you’re essentially feeling your way thru the dark (which isn’t an inaccurate way of looking at what we do).



But it can also be a hinderance, since no system/group has it perfect (or even mostly right imo), you are essentially recreating the combined steps of the ones who created the “map”, both helpful and erroneous ones, and coming to a similar destination. Not wrong or right I guess, just depends on what you’re looking for. But at least it provides you with a map to work off of.



Now let’s say you found one of these groups’ “holy grail”, in my experience, you would find as much noise as signal, if not more. While a group can hold each other accountable, push each other farther down this path, and use their combined experiences to great effect, they are also combing their egos/biases/dogma/errors.



Now if you could get a lot of these groups “secrets” you could probably look for common threads and that could prove interesting. But in the end, this stuff can’t be spoon fed to you either, it’s not the pursuit of truth as much as it’s the truth in the pursuit. It’s the searching that’s the real hidden treasure.



-Eld

Hmmm so what would some good next steps be then? Because the most I've done in terms of "magick" (practice wise) is just new thought, mainly from Charles F Haanel. Have always been skeptical of straight up magick, probably due to Christian-ish upbringing and the stigma with it.

Not to be spoon fed of course, maybe just some texts or books that would be a really good base that would allow further exploration or enough understanding to know where to go next?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Hmmm so what would some good next steps be then? Because the most I've done in terms of "magick" (practice wise) is just new thought, mainly from Charles F Haanel. Have always been skeptical of straight up magick, probably due to Christian-ish upbringing and the stigma with it.

Not to be spoon fed of course, maybe just some texts or books that would be a really good base that would allow further exploration or enough understanding to know where to go next?

I always recommend Alan Chapman's "Advanced Magick for Beginners"

Book – PDF - Advanced Magick for Beginners - Alan Chapman

A new paradigm that delivers a genuine transformation of the magical arts. The novice magician will indeed find themselves fully equipped to commence all sorts of magickal operations: trance work, enchantment, divination, and even some of the higher forms of spiritual development...

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