[Help] Are there people like Crowley or Lon Duquette, who didn't take an oath of secrecy?

[Shade]

What I mean by the above is, people who deeply studied occult knowledge, know initiate secrets, etc etc... And wrote about it? I love lon duquette's work but the only thing that annoys me is that he took a secrecy oath so I know I'm not getting everything from reading him. Are there any weird exceptions where people never took an oath yet still got taught, and released what they knew?

Order of the Red Cross are pretty lax. (Rosicrucians) not the ones in the Masonic ordee but the real ones. Dr. Robert Gilber speaks at length of what he knows and as far as I know he doesn’t use blinds. Or as some refer to it as “gatekeeping” I too always assumed every grimoire every teaching worth any salt had a few blinds but I’m glad I wasn't entirely right about that.

 

[Xenophon]

It has been said (from Heinlein's Lazarus Long to MacDonald Fraser's Harry Flashman) that the best way to preserve secrecy is to tell the truth so unconvincingly that no one credits it as worthy of attention. Or, if one is truly nasty, to leave out one innocuous but key element or two.

 

[Mars]

Crowley

deep occult knowledge

I laughed

Post automatically merged: Monday at 12:37 PM

to tell the truth so unconvincingly that no one credits it as worthy of attention. Or, if one is truly nasty, to leave out one innocuous but key element or two.

I actually do this lmao. Though I only leave out stuff because I want to see if others mention it or similar instead. Still need to keep an edge

 

[venuslocal]

Reading this thread brought to mind a quote from Annie Bessant:

"We must search diligently in each school of thought for the truths which it is seeking to express. If this search be conducted successfully, the various schools will to a great extent be unified."

I'm confident that no one source, be it a book or course or anything like that, has the full "truth". Rather, each aspirant seeks to 'piece together' various threads from different sources.

 

[Shade]

What I mean by the above is, people who deeply studied occult knowledge, know initiate secrets, etc etc... And wrote about it? I love lon duquette's work but the only thing that annoys me is that he took a secrecy oath so I know I'm not getting everything from reading him. Are there any weird exceptions where people never took an oath yet still got taught, and released what they knew?

There is a HUGE body of material by Rudolph Steiner on Rosicrucians that is not hidden. as mentioned in my previous post - Dr. Robert Gilbert is very open about his 40 years of study in that tradition. it’s odd- you hear all about the ”fee” masons (spelling error on purpose) and all these other occult societies that seem to be more so trained to be cult societies and you got Rosicrucians in the background - ’no marketing no gimmicks,’just their own way.

Example:
In his book “3 paths to Christ” Steiner doesn't push meds or marketing or insult your intelligence by acting like there’s any super occult knowledge, he very simply says- here’s your obstacle, this is the energy center it resides in, this is how it is brought back into balance.
example…’if you
have anxious or fidgety energy (we call it a ADD/ADHD) Pharma subscribe pills, he offers a way in which to balance the heart and body to help gain clarity of the mind with a real world exercises.
-
My bad for the long post but I really Like his material thus far and I am very impressed.
i hope it helps anyone it interests.

 

[Mars]

There is a HUGE body of material by Rudolph Steiner on Rosicrucians that is not hidden. as mentioned in my previous post - Dr. Robert Gilbert is very open about his 40 years of study in that tradition. it’s odd- you hear all about the ”fee” masons (spelling error on purpose) and all these other occult societies that seem to be more so trained to be cult societies and you got Rosicrucians in the background - ’no marketing no gimmicks,’just their own way.

Example:
In his book “3 paths to Christ” Steiner doesn't push meds or marketing or insult your intelligence by acting like there’s any super occult knowledge, he very simply says- here’s your obstacle, this is the energy center it resides in, this is how it is brought back into balance.
example…’if you
have anxious or fidgety energy (we call it a ADD/ADHD) Pharma subscribe pills, he offers a way in which to balance the heart and body to help gain clarity of the mind with a real world exercises.
-
My bad for the long post but I really Like his material thus far and I am very impressed.
i hope it helps anyone it interests.

I love you. You got it. Freemasonry is just a degenerated rag tag bunch of hermetic larpers. The actual freemasons, the inner circle are the ones with the knowledge and have no name. Anything else is just a facade.

Rudolf Steiner is the best source. He also applied most of his knowledge to other things like medicine, farming and education, we still have waldorf schools here. They have been established by him personally.

He was an actual teacher and I listened to his works (audiobooks) and it helps connect a lot of things. He has sincerity and genuine knowledge. No beating around the bush. My favourite quote of him "Remember, the same veil that hides the occult world from you, also protects you from it"

Literally until his very last days he gave lectures. Fully present, fully sharp, no sign of dementia or anything else. His lectures were cheap too. Only charged what he needed to sustain himself.

If anyone should be worshipped its him. Not fucking "Heroin Addict and Child neglector" Crowley

 

[Dascent]

"The grass is always greener on the neighbor's yard.."
With other words and more to the topic.... there is no (real) oath of secrecy if there were, you wouldn't know.
Let me share a story (again) of how value is added to some stuff...
Back, way, way back around 1500 and some, there was this pope, a cool, smart guy Pope Pius the 3rd who was convinced by the diary and influence of its predecessors that magic should be more restricted, common folk should not know much about their power so he made an agreement and paid with his life ... the subject of the agreement was to restrict and control all magic crafts along with some healing methodology.
The wheels in motion, Pope Pius dies and his plan is starting to be implemented.
Because the catholic church learned from previous experiences (betrayed by templar order) got smarter and remembered the golden rule, "don't use conflict" but convert (lightworkers, transforming the bad negativity into light) so, they recycled the idea of "build on top of their belief and convert it" -- build a church on top of a pagan temple, the energy is still there but converted and manipulated.... so, that's what catholic church did...
First they gathered all the cool pagan writings, knowledge, manuscripts, around the world and "translated" into various versions and that's how priests had become not only scholars (spreading the word of God) but magic practitioners too.
The ones who translated knowledge from hebrew, sumerian, tables, (the first grimoires) had to corrupt the magic they discovered so it would not work... Take the Lesser Key of Solomon, there are 72 "demons" who build the Great Temple... the knowledge is made public, was/is and will be studied, yet nobody ever successfully build a garage not to mention something more... (and few understand why)
Anyway, long story short, what magic content (books, grimoires, real shit) is infact corrupted and fake for the most part... 90%.
Here's the "devil's trick" how to add value to nothing useful? This was the question and the robe-scholars come up with a plan, "let's convince folk, magic is in the fake books we plant in churches, monasteries, abbey around the world... and hire mercenaries, vikings, thieves to pillage, rob, still and kill for them and we also pay them to sell their books to church...
Why this plan worked? Because man in robes were ones who knew to write, read, teach... the word of God... as a representative to God's will, these guys had a lot of influence...

Bottom line, make something hard to reach, inaccessible for the masses and all will want it... it was in human nature.
Devil's strategy of marketing...
Something which is indeed under the oath of silence is unknown by definition, but to attract we can use this "attention suckers" words like "hidden knowledge, known by the elite only" ... stuff like that and for the most people works just like that...
The best marketers was the catholic church and its emissaries ...

Magic works only when belief is strong and when focus charges the subject of the magic... if is unknown, there's no awareness of it, no focus, no energy... Belief move mountains...
Secrecy build interest, hidden builds interest, elite builds interest and where focus goes energy flows... it is a game of illusion for the masses.
But many seam to awake...

 

[dababy10]

"The grass is always greener on the neighbor's yard.."
With other words and more to the topic.... there is no (real) oath of secrecy if there were, you wouldn't know.
Let me share a story (again) of how value is added to some stuff...
Back, way, way back around 1500 and some, there was this pope, a cool, smart guy Pope Pius the 3rd who was convinced by the diary and influence of its predecessors that magic should be more restricted, common folk should not know much about their power so he made an agreement and paid with his life ... the subject of the agreement was to restrict and control all magic crafts along with some healing methodology.
The wheels in motion, Pope Pius dies and his plan is starting to be implemented.
Because the catholic church learned from previous experiences (betrayed by templar order) got smarter and remembered the golden rule, "don't use conflict" but convert (lightworkers, transforming the bad negativity into light) so, they recycled the idea of "build on top of their belief and convert it" -- build a church on top of a pagan temple, the energy is still there but converted and manipulated.... so, that's what catholic church did...
First they gathered all the cool pagan writings, knowledge, manuscripts, around the world and "translated" into various versions and that's how priests had become not only scholars (spreading the word of God) but magic practitioners too.
The ones who translated knowledge from hebrew, sumerian, tables, (the first grimoires) had to corrupt the magic they discovered so it would not work... Take the Lesser Key of Solomon, there are 72 "demons" who build the Great Temple... the knowledge is made public, was/is and will be studied, yet nobody ever successfully build a garage not to mention something more... (and few understand why)
Anyway, long story short, what magic content (books, grimoires, real shit) is infact corrupted and fake for the most part... 90%.
Here's the "devil's trick" how to add value to nothing useful? This was the question and the robe-scholars come up with a plan, "let's convince folk, magic is in the fake books we plant in churches, monasteries, abbey around the world... and hire mercenaries, vikings, thieves to pillage, rob, still and kill for them and we also pay them to sell their books to church...
Why this plan worked? Because man in robes were ones who knew to write, read, teach... the word of God... as a representative to God's will, these guys had a lot of influence...

Bottom line, make something hard to reach, inaccessible for the masses and all will want it... it was in human nature.
Devil's strategy of marketing...
Something which is indeed under the oath of silence is unknown by definition, but to attract we can use this "attention suckers" words like "hidden knowledge, known by the elite only" ... stuff like that and for the most people works just like that...
The best marketers was the catholic church and its emissaries ...

Magic works only when belief is strong and when focus charges the subject of the magic... if is unknown, there's no awareness of it, no focus, no energy... Belief move mountains...
Secrecy build interest, hidden builds interest, elite builds interest and where focus goes energy flows... it is a game of illusion for the masses.
But many seam to awake...

What content would you consider real shit?

 

[neilwilkes]

Hmmm so what would some good next steps be then? Because the most I've done in terms of "magick" (practice wise) is just new thought, mainly from Charles F Haanel. Have always been skeptical of straight up magick, probably due to Christian-ish upbringing and the stigma with it.

Not to be spoon fed of course, maybe just some texts or books that would be a really good base that would allow further exploration or enough understanding to know where to go next?

That's a really strange paradox you've set up there - new thought mainly from someone else?
Is what you've been up to 'new thought' or an adaptation of someone else's thinking?

Have always been skeptical of straight up magick, probably due to Christian-ish upbringing and the stigma with it.

That one is worth repeating too - I get the impression that you are seriously conflicted internally, which implies that you've not done the basics yet.....

 

[Dascent]

What content would you consider real shit?

The real "shit" is what you create. It is tangible, in your reality, in your awareness, created by you, not others' stories and experiences but your own.
And real "shit" is less, because few have self-trust, self-development and courage to create their experiences in a conscious way.
There are creators Aleister Crowley, Austin Osman Spare, Kenneth Grant, Peter Carroll, Ray Sherwin, Frater U.D .. so on and there are the rest.... (just an example)
Magic is not like math, magic evolves, is flexible, interpretable, atemporal, adaptable, malleable, fluid and rigid in the same time, that's why it is magic, it is a force of creation and manifestation... that "shit" is real... I see no other temples, I see no alchemist getting rich from transforming lead into gold... so, what is missing? where is the evidence in the craft? manifestation implies tangible, 3rd dimension experience... belief of "I have 2 billions in crypto in my account" doesn't make it so...
At the end of the day, if that serve you in a positive way and you got an experience from it, the experience is real.

 

[Perditus74]

What I mean by the above is, people who deeply studied occult knowledge, know initiate secrets, etc etc... And wrote about it? I love lon duquette's work but the only thing that annoys me is that he took a secrecy oath so I know I'm not getting everything from reading him. Are there any weird exceptions where people never took an oath yet still got taught, and released what they knew?

Israel Regardie shared much of the Golden Dawn's high ritual methodology in a digestible manner.
You'll find little to no sense of selfishness in his writings.
It's fascinating and I'm surprised no one mentioned it before.