Bardon's Bullshit 'Kabbalah'

[Celestia]

I agree, you've made some sharp but fair points. To clarify, I'm not saying that you're holding Bardon's work to the standards of science or medicine. The point I'm making is that this area of study is not as verifiable or objective as those areas of study. It was a point made to accentuate the fact that some level of evidentiary forgiveness is kind of needed in occult study. I'm arguing that point anyway, in the interest of being reasonable, though you're of course free to disagree.

Are there any other authors that you believe hold up better to scrutiny? There's nothing wrong at all with disapproving of Bardon. Is there someone you would recommend taking a look at instead?

 

[ihateclowns]

From Bardon's book-

The formula "Joe-Hoe-W" brings about perfect harmony in the mental, astral and material worlds, i.e., if used mentally, astrally and materially -- eucharistically -- which then must result in perfect health.

Must result in perfect health. lol How much clearer can it be? I picked one of the formulas dealing with health, there are others in his book. Bardon was quite unhealthy and if he hadn't committed suicide, he'd have died young anyway. So much for results. And Bardon did try to improve his health, to little effect (ie using spagyrics), so the idea that he didn't use his own system is nonsense.

What Bardon did was take the Hebrew out of the Sepher Yetzirah and then shoehorn the German alphabet into it (it's not a perfect correspondence but it's close enough). Then people call this 'hermetics'. It's somewhat odd, particularly if you study how these alphabets evolved.

Investigating it I could see there is some energy in the system, but no one has or ever will achieve a lot of the results claimed in his book. This is supposed to be the jewel of Bardon's long practices, but he couldn't even use it to heal himself. It can cause the practitioner to experience various 'divine' 'highs' (hence some of its reputation, outside of the fairy tales told about Bardon), but as an esoteric system to achieve the highest, it falls flat. As well the practical results claimed are nonsense, no one achieves most of them.

I understand most would feel the same, some schools crucify him for making such complicated system but if you think the Yoga of India is no different, it has a strict code of ethics long arduous practice for decades away from civilisation and who stuck to their guns get to behold the ultimate reality in their hands and they play with world like a toddler plays with toys.

Bardon took many concepts from Yoga and Hinduism, his thought control methods are from Raja Yoga of Patanjali (that is why Crowley wanted his students to learn Patanjali's Aphorisms for beginners) and many years ago some on occult subreddit provided proofs of his correspondence with Swami Sivananda a great Yogi and liberated being who clarified confusions Bardon had in Raja Yoga. Besides Bardon had few private disciples and wasn't fancy either. He gave the system with the sequential steps and there is no hegemony at any state, no amateur or no adept only those who just practice his system for decades consider themselves as adepts but how would you know if such a person is an adept, you certainly can't peep into his mind but can only verify through the physical results.

Some people who deify him and look down up on other systems are no different from elites which Bardon didn't want except that he said with conviction that sooner or later people would find his methods to be the most workable because without mind control and meditation no magic is possible.

You are right most wouldn't achieve what Bardon set out for people to do but unless you travel the path and have seen the end you have no authority to say the path is wrong or it leads no where, Gandalf travelled a lot that is why he acted as guide to the Fellowship and no one else.

 

[Celestia]

I understand most would feel the same, some schools crucify him for making such complicated system but if you think the Yoga of India is no different, it has a strict code of ethics long arduous practice for decades away from civilisation and who stuck to their guns get to behold the ultimate reality in their hands and they play with world like a toddler plays with toys.

Bardon took many concepts from Yoga and Hinduism, his thought control methods are from Raja Yoga of Patanjali (that is why Crowley wanted his students to learn Patanjali's Aphorisms for beginners) and many years ago some on occult subreddit provided proofs of his correspondence with Swami Sivananda a great Yogi and liberated being who clarified confusions Bardon had in Raja Yoga. Besides Bardon had few private disciples and wasn't fancy either. He gave the system with the sequential steps and there is no hegemony at any state, no amateur or no adept only those who just practice his system for decades consider themselves as adepts but how would you know if such a person is an adept, you certainly can't peep into his mind but can only verify through the physical results.

Some people who deify him and look down up on other systems are no different from elites which Bardon didn't want except that he said with conviction that sooner or later people would find his methods to be the most workable because without mind control and meditation no magic is possible.

You are right most wouldn't achieve what Bardon set out for people to do but unless you travel the path and have seen the end you have no authority to say the path is wrong or it leads no where, Gandalf travelled a lot that is why he acted as guide to the Fellowship and no one else.

Another thing worth mentioning as well is that if someone deifies an author, does anyone really have control over that?

Like, if an author dies, and a number of people decide to deify him, is that the author's fault? If the author is asking to be deified, I get it. Then sure, I can see how that would hurt the author's credibility. That's literally an example of personal ego.

My understanding is that in Bardon's case, he was not asking to be mythologized.

But still, I can agree with Beyond Everything here, that that still can mean an individual is "overhyped", sure. The claims being made by other people after the author's death are more extravagant than appropriate.

But again I have to wonder, does an author exist who did state that any health condition could be healed, and who did actually do it (recorded as fact)? I can't think of one. Maybe Jesus, who wasn't an author, but fits that mold. He claimed to heal others using holy/divine powers, and it was recorded that he did it (according to the books, anyway).

But I don't know of a lot of occult authors who claimed to heal themselves and then were actually able to do it.

But I'll give one small example of a rare healing that is recorded as actually happening (as recorded, anyway). This is not an inventor of an occult system, but rather a supposed historical story of someone who healed using non-medical means. Some consider this book a work that belongs in the category of Hermetics (very loosely), some don't. The Healing of Rodolphe Grivel (detailed in the book by Fabre D'Olivet). There's essentially no information out there other than the book itself, so this is quite literally a bit of an esoteric work. But in the book, this man heals from a congenital condition using a change in consciousness/internal state. Allegedly. Another difficulty here is that there is no actual historical account of the man in the book having existed. The author supposedly is verified as existing (Fabre D'Olivet). But it's not verified that Rodolphe Grivel was an actual person.

So again, we have missing pieces here. Here's a story of someone who actually healed by changing their inner state. But was it even a true story? This is fully anecdotal.

Trying to find someone who created an occult system that heals people, and then proves it by actually doing it, is going to be pretty tough. Does anyone know of one? As far as I know, there are usually missing pieces.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I understand most would feel the same, some schools crucify him for making such complicated system but if you think the Yoga of India is no different,

You're not addressing my very specific points about Bardon's Kabbalah and his lack of ability to implement his claims in that book. So, irrelevant.

and many years ago some on occult subreddit provided proofs of his correspondence with Swami Sivananda a great Yogi and liberated being who clarified confusions Bardon had in Raja Yoga.

So he exchanged letters with someone. So what? And I'm curious how you personally know if someone is liberated or not. I define liberation as someone who has accomplished the creation of a higher immortal subtle body. Have you had an OBE in which you encountered Sivananda? If you haven't had some sort of experience like that, then you're just parroting religious talking points ---which really doesn't interest me.

, no amateur or no adept only those who just practice his system for decades consider themselves as adepts

So there are no adepts but people who practice a lot consider themselves adepts?

w would you know if such a person is an adept, you certainly can't peep into his mind but can only verify through the physical results.

The physical results are very, very important- considering the claims made in his own books. I get people are in denial, so I have to keep bringing it back to this reality.

Some people who deify him and look down up on other systems are no different from elites which Bardon didn't want except that he said with conviction that sooner or later people would find his methods to be the most workable because without mind control and meditation no magic is possible.

Magic is a natural ability of humans. Some people with no training or meditation practice whatsoever can simiply visualize a goal and have it manifest- or do a bit of candle magic and get a result. Meditation is of course absolutely vital for esoteric development, though.

You are right most wouldn't achieve what Bardon set out for people to do but unless you travel the path and have seen the end you have no authority to say the path is wrong or it leads no where, Gandalf travelled a lot that is why he acted as guide to the Fellowship and no one else.

lol@authority.

Tolkein is quite dull to me. What I have enjoyed are some of the writings that inspired him, particularly the Norse sagas. They are weirder and more interesting/ambiguous than Tolkein. But that's for another thread.

Post automatically merged: Today at 8:39 PM

Another thing worth mentioning as well is that if someone deifies an author, does anyone really have control over that?

Well, who knows what he was telling his secretary lol. That aside, the larger problem is what Bardon implied about himself. In writing the Kabbalah book, he never once said 'well, some of this Ive approached, but really when I say these letters can bring perfect health, I myself have not experienced that'. I don't see how one can get around this fact.

But I don't know of a lot of occult authors who claimed to heal themselves and then were actually able to do it.

Well, so far I've only authored some internet posts, but as I've said- I've healed myself more than once. While not from something like late-stage cancer, they were serious enough situations.