Blockchains, NFTs, and The New Frontier of Mammon

[Jarhyn]

So, people have developed a new system of ledger on which they register ownership of ideas.

Of course, merely saying "I own this spirit" does not make it so.

This is a problem insofar as no consent has been offered up to who these people who are staking these claims upon such ledgers, and consensus may eventually happen around the validity of such things regardless.

It is a new, sucking mouth on the face of an old, sucky thing as far as I can tell: attempts to permanently stake claim, and so as to allow the idea of leverage to enter in and stay and grow.

 

[Just Jim]

How exactly can someone make a claim against someone who uses an NFT without permission? Apart from in a computer game, I don't see how a real world asset (like a ceramic mug) can possibly be protected with a digital certificate. Ownership has to be recognized by more than the blockchain as ownership is a concept of the state, if someone steals my shit, the state will back up my claim with force if I call the police.

You can screenshot NFTs and sell them without the blockchain ever noticing.

It's one thing if an art gallery lists a Banksy on the blockchain as it will be well guarded wherever it is being sold from, but everything else outside of the metaverse is not really suited as a means for proof of ownership.

What happens if you are in a country that does not recognize crypto or blockchains as proof of anything?

NFTs don't make sense outside of a frivolous artifact for the rich.

I do hold crypto so I am all for what the blockchain is about and find it fascinating, but I don't see the point in buying an NFT, I would rather buy governance tokens for the networks they are on.

 

[Jarhyn]

How exactly can someone make a claim against someone who uses an NFT without permission? Apart from in a computer game, I don't see how a real world asset (like a ceramic mug) can possibly be protected with a digital certificate. Ownership has to be recognized by more than the blockchain as ownership is a concept of the state, if someone steals my shit, the state will back up my claim with force if I call the police.

You can screenshot NFTs and sell them without the blockchain ever noticing.

It's one thing if an art gallery lists a Banksy on the blockchain as it will be well guarded wherever it is being sold from, but everything else outside of the metaverse is not really suited as a means for proof of ownership.

What happens if you are in a country that does not recognize crypto or blockchains as proof of anything?

NFTs don't make sense outside of a frivolous artifact for the rich.

I do hold crypto so I am all for what the blockchain is about and find it fascinating, but I don't see the point in buying an NFT, I would rather buy governance tokens for the networks they are on.

Indeed, the bigger concern is if some fucking stupid world leader decides to throw in behind a Blockchain with registered NFTs and accepts prior NFT registration, and signs onto the chain.

I recognize blockchains too. I hold electronic currencies for my own reasons, and I too find it fascinating... when the number owned is arbitrary and merely a "fungible token"

This whole thing stinks of a lot of soon to be very angry people, some with the power to say "I paid so much money in to this scam to own this <whatever> I demand [o governments of the world,] [in exchange for this giant pile of money,] that you legitimize this scam!"

 

[8Lou1]

Im just learning about all this, so im not up to par concerning all the words and concepts, but imho what you guys are writing is a good thing. Although a scam is a crap thing, in this case (the totality of creating a new world and currency) it brings back uncertainty and incalculable ways. Our universe is and was an expanding one and since humans THINK they discover, but only copy paste, it is the only logical outcome.

Dont think metaverse, think zettaverse and beyond...

 

[Incognitus]

What happens if you are in a country that does not recognize crypto or blockchains as proof of anything?

Caveat emptor, as they say. It's not a problem unique to NFTs, or even virtual items. You can buy a US region locked blu ray disc and have no way of legally playing it in the country you're in. Despite proof of ownership, you may not even be able to get a refund.

You could purchase a firewall in the US, and have it be illegal to ship and use in a different country even if you spent $20,000 on it. This could be due to US crypto export laws, or the remote country's laws. You may not get a refund and may just be SOL because you didn't understand what you were buying and the local laws (I have actually seen this happen).

You could travel to Africa from the US and take US dollars, and find out due to your lack of research that you had to convert to local currency prior to entry, and now it's worth nothing and you're stuck despite proof of ownership (sadly, also had this happen, tho I was young and it was someone else's responsibility!).

My point here is, there's no guarantee any physical or virtual good purchased in one country will be recognized or legal or usable in another country.

You can screenshot NFTs and sell them without the blockchain ever noticing.

You can take a picture of a painting in a museum with your phone at 4k resolution make a very good quality print, and hang it on your wall.

Prior to NFTs and crypto currency being a thing (and still today), thieves steal digital art (or digital images of physical art) and distribute them in pay apps (1000 wallpaper images, only .99!), pay wallpaper type websites, and even physical items sold in Etsy/ebay stores using stolen image.

This has literally always been a problem. NFTs haven't made it worse. In fact, with sites such as deviantart, they now scan NFT sites for your own art that you post and will let you know if someone is trying to sell if on one of the NFT markets. I don't recall there being such a thing protecting my art from being sold by some asshole on Etsy.

 

[Jarhyn]

Caveat emptor, as they say. It's not a problem unique to NFTs, or even virtual items. You can buy a US region locked blu ray disc and have no way of legally playing it in the country you're in. Despite proof of ownership, you may not even be able to get a refund.

You could purchase a firewall in the US, and have it be illegal to ship and use in a different country even if you spent $20,000 on it. This could be due to US crypto export laws, or the remote country's laws. You may not get a refund and may just be SOL because you didn't understand what you were buying and the local laws (I have actually seen this happen).

You could travel to Africa from the US and take US dollars, and find out due to your lack of research that you had to convert to local currency prior to entry, and now it's worth nothing and you're stuck despite proof of ownership (sadly, also had this happen, tho I was young and it was someone else's responsibility!).

My point here is, there's no guarantee any physical or virtual good purchased in one country will be recognized or legal or usable in another country.


You can take a picture of a painting in a museum with your phone at 4k resolution make a very good quality print, and hang it on your wall.

Prior to NFTs and crypto currency being a thing (and still today), thieves steal digital art (or digital images of physical art) and distribute them in pay apps (1000 wallpaper images, only .99!), pay wallpaper type websites, and even physical items sold in Etsy/ebay stores using stolen image.

This has literally always been a problem. NFTs haven't made it worse. In fact, with sites such as deviantart, they now scan NFT sites for your own art that you post and will let you know if someone is trying to sell if on one of the NFT markets. I don't recall there being such a thing protecting my art from being sold by some asshole on Etsy.

More, the concern is domestic legal leverage of thieves over those who actually create all the fun/cool/weird/sexy stuff.

I do like that it's somehow easier to track people in this particular scam, but it's still yet another "forever ledger" with which people write upon an idea, a number, and in some essences a soul, "mine".