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Cults to Consciousness: OTO
- Thread starter Morell
- Start date
Well ... as usual , I speak from my own experience . The intro was pretty good until the 'they protect predators ' part ( again, not in my experience , at all ) .
But then from 5:50 ... ummmm , well, I suppose she is just the 'host' , or the 'presenter' . The first 20 minutes I could relate to .
23:00 ... the AA , the rave starts to get a bit negative but AA is not OTO ,,, they are very different . The he broaches an interesting subject ; 'the ark' ( 25:00 ) - a vehicle to preserve mysteries within a rapidly degenerating society ... but then he goes off that subject . Students of 'magical history' might know of this phase - 'The Secret Conference ' where the collective and eclectic nature of the early OTO was first formed ( and not so much the 'last bastion of civilization' (as he claims ) but preserving the last bastion of a giant collection of obscure magical orders that were rapidly dying out ( see 'The Weida Conference Aug. 1925 - ) .
and ;
Then there is a fairly standard intro to Thelema . ... with that woman continually interrupting and being amazed at rather basic stuff .
The at 29:18 ... oh dear ! 'Its kinda like eveyone becomes like Jesus Christ ' ummm no . He would be better looking at the origins of the 'true will' concept in ancient Zoroastrianism and the concept of Khavarenah ( where Crowley probably lifted the idea from ) .... but then again , no one does this ( that I know of ) and the whole teaching, in context, nowadays seems lost , so I dont suppose I can blame him struggling to explain the concept ... but 'kinda like everyone becomes like Jesus Christ ' ... ugh !
30:40 is a great example of her wrongly understanding and trying to lead the conversation that way ( fortunately he says 'no , its not ' ) .
31:33 I must protest ! of course people tell you what 'Thelema' means ... there are a heap of writings on that . 'No one tells you what the Gnostic Mass means ' ehh ? Its put up as a thing to study and there are discourses on it . If you are in the church , you would get instruction off your priest and priestess what it means . 'No one tells you what the initiations mean ' ... oh dear ! Every initiate is encouraged to review their initiation with their initiator and review and study its symbolism . I cant imagine , if what he says is true, what sort of group he was in . .... No 'First degree study sessions ' ? No reviews and training for initiation officers ???
The he claims ''If you criticize the theological views of someone who is high ranking you will be branded a troublemaker .'' Obscure ... 'theological views ' ? In this context he must mean Thelema and also The Book of the Law . Thelema and OTO teach that each persons 'theological' view of the Book of the Law is upo to them and no one is allowed to dictate what it even means and even to the point that officially ( by one of Crowleys 'comments' ) discussing such is even forbidden . A strange group of OTO that theologically dictates to people what Thelema means ? Never heard of that before .
32:30 we start getting to the negatives . 'Drama .... its sorta like a theatre troop or a high school click ' ... exactly ! As I have said in a few places , every group regardless of who or what , IS going to have that !
Try this one ;
and , unless you have a way of dealing with that, expect chaos and all that 'human stuff' . I note that nowadays, many organisations are required to have to address this in place - a friends housing co-op could not form until they put procedures for conflict resolution in place ... it is now being required in all sorts of organisations .
34:12 ... she tries it again - he says no. The 'some co-habited ad that is .... kinda ... interesting '' ... Ooooo scandal !
The he talks about 'back to back events ' like he is suggesting some constant events and some sort of ... ? programming or something ' Friday solstice ritual with a Saturday initiation, then next weekend another initiation then a few weeks later another initiation ... '' Doesnt sound too serious to me ... a football team would have more contact training and games than that over the period he talks about . At this stage they seem to be struggling to find ANYTHING controversial .
35:20 ; Then this shocker ; someone needed to move and everyone helped them... loaded the truck .... WOW ! Dude! Its supposed to be a fraternity ! MY friends would do that and they are not even in a magical order together . And then he says , in retrospect that it was ''kinda swallowing up and mounding myself .'' I and she says '' Yaaaa! ''
Then he talks about moving though degrees , which sounds accurate and he reports no issues , even saying fees were reasonable '' they are not laughing all the way to the bank'' .
'The Juice' ! from 40:00 onwards ... its what everyone was hoping to hear ... 'sex magick ' ? here he also says he got to 5th degree ( the level I got to ) I affirm what he says about OTO , up to this point is accurate - from 39:47 - 41:30
At 44:30 he admits he never had access to 'sex magic; ''There are books, you can read about '' ... sure, anyone can do that .
She seems to be struggling to find a controversy ... and he, although hinted he had a bitch about something , has not got to it ( at least so far )
46:20 ... finally, some controversy ! The case Of Adam . It does seem problematic. Something should have been done earlier . I note though that an internal investigation was held and further was uncovered , but then he says he was leaving and heard ( 'I dont know if its true or not' ) 'Adam' was back there being involved .
50:47, she makes an incorrect allegation ... he falters but then admits 'Adam' is not the degree that practices sex magic, thus refuting her claim .
Then he claims 'all men in OTO have access to woemn '' really ? I had 'access to women' in many jobs I had . Including nursing .
I need a break from these two. more later ... or maybe not .
But then from 5:50 ... ummmm , well, I suppose she is just the 'host' , or the 'presenter' . The first 20 minutes I could relate to .
23:00 ... the AA , the rave starts to get a bit negative but AA is not OTO ,,, they are very different . The he broaches an interesting subject ; 'the ark' ( 25:00 ) - a vehicle to preserve mysteries within a rapidly degenerating society ... but then he goes off that subject . Students of 'magical history' might know of this phase - 'The Secret Conference ' where the collective and eclectic nature of the early OTO was first formed ( and not so much the 'last bastion of civilization' (as he claims ) but preserving the last bastion of a giant collection of obscure magical orders that were rapidly dying out ( see 'The Weida Conference Aug. 1925 - ) .
and ;
AI Overview
The Weida Conference (also known as the Conference of Grand Masters), took place in August 1925 in Hohenleuben near Weida, Germany. [, ]
The Context of the Conference
The meeting was organized by Heinrich Tränker, the head of the Rosicrucian occult order known as the Collegium Pansophicum (Pansophic Lodge), who also served as a high-ranking National Grand Master of the German Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.). Following the death of O.T.O.’s previous leader, Theodor Reuss, in 1923, the international occult community faced a crisis of succession and continuity. [, , , , ]
The primary goals of the conference were:
The Outcome and Factional Split
While attendees like Karl Germer (who financed Crowley's travel), Martha Küntzel, and Eugen Grosche initially sought alignment, the conference did not result in a harmonious or total consensus. Crowley's intense personality and radical doctrines—particularly regarding sexual magic—sparked a significant ideological schism. [, , , , , ]
The Weida Conference (also known as the Conference of Grand Masters), took place in August 1925 in Hohenleuben near Weida, Germany. [, ]
The Context of the Conference
The meeting was organized by Heinrich Tränker, the head of the Rosicrucian occult order known as the Collegium Pansophicum (Pansophic Lodge), who also served as a high-ranking National Grand Master of the German Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.). Following the death of O.T.O.’s previous leader, Theodor Reuss, in 1923, the international occult community faced a crisis of succession and continuity. [, , , , ]
The primary goals of the conference were:
- Ensuring Spiritual Continuity: Uniting various fractured esoteric orders, Rosicrucian groups, and Hermetic thinkers under a unified governance to carry the Western esoteric tradition into the modern era.
- Evaluating Aleister Crowley's Leadership: Deciding whether to officially recognize Aleister Crowley as the Outer Head of the Order (O.H.O.) and the spiritual "World Teacher".
- Voting on the Law of Thelema: Evaluating Crowley's newly received Book of the Law to see if his philosophy of Thelema should serve as the core vehicle for the tradition's future. [, , , ]
The Outcome and Factional Split
While attendees like Karl Germer (who financed Crowley's travel), Martha Küntzel, and Eugen Grosche initially sought alignment, the conference did not result in a harmonious or total consensus. Crowley's intense personality and radical doctrines—particularly regarding sexual magic—sparked a significant ideological schism. [, , , , , ]
- The Pro-Crowley Faction: Administrative heads who recognized Crowley's authority officially elected him as the Outer Head of the Order. They agreed that the O.T.O., restructured around the Law of Thelema, was the absolute best vehicle to carry the mysteries into the "New Aeon".
- The Anti-Crowley Faction: Tränker and several other traditionalists ultimately withdrew their support, refusing to adopt Thelema. The Pansophic Lodge dissolved shortly after in 1926. [, , , , ]
Then there is a fairly standard intro to Thelema . ... with that woman continually interrupting and being amazed at rather basic stuff .
The at 29:18 ... oh dear ! 'Its kinda like eveyone becomes like Jesus Christ ' ummm no . He would be better looking at the origins of the 'true will' concept in ancient Zoroastrianism and the concept of Khavarenah ( where Crowley probably lifted the idea from ) .... but then again , no one does this ( that I know of ) and the whole teaching, in context, nowadays seems lost , so I dont suppose I can blame him struggling to explain the concept ... but 'kinda like everyone becomes like Jesus Christ ' ... ugh !
30:40 is a great example of her wrongly understanding and trying to lead the conversation that way ( fortunately he says 'no , its not ' ) .
31:33 I must protest ! of course people tell you what 'Thelema' means ... there are a heap of writings on that . 'No one tells you what the Gnostic Mass means ' ehh ? Its put up as a thing to study and there are discourses on it . If you are in the church , you would get instruction off your priest and priestess what it means . 'No one tells you what the initiations mean ' ... oh dear ! Every initiate is encouraged to review their initiation with their initiator and review and study its symbolism . I cant imagine , if what he says is true, what sort of group he was in . .... No 'First degree study sessions ' ? No reviews and training for initiation officers ???
The he claims ''If you criticize the theological views of someone who is high ranking you will be branded a troublemaker .'' Obscure ... 'theological views ' ? In this context he must mean Thelema and also The Book of the Law . Thelema and OTO teach that each persons 'theological' view of the Book of the Law is upo to them and no one is allowed to dictate what it even means and even to the point that officially ( by one of Crowleys 'comments' ) discussing such is even forbidden . A strange group of OTO that theologically dictates to people what Thelema means ? Never heard of that before .
32:30 we start getting to the negatives . 'Drama .... its sorta like a theatre troop or a high school click ' ... exactly ! As I have said in a few places , every group regardless of who or what , IS going to have that !
Try this one ;
and , unless you have a way of dealing with that, expect chaos and all that 'human stuff' . I note that nowadays, many organisations are required to have to address this in place - a friends housing co-op could not form until they put procedures for conflict resolution in place ... it is now being required in all sorts of organisations .
34:12 ... she tries it again - he says no. The 'some co-habited ad that is .... kinda ... interesting '' ... Ooooo scandal !
The he talks about 'back to back events ' like he is suggesting some constant events and some sort of ... ? programming or something ' Friday solstice ritual with a Saturday initiation, then next weekend another initiation then a few weeks later another initiation ... '' Doesnt sound too serious to me ... a football team would have more contact training and games than that over the period he talks about . At this stage they seem to be struggling to find ANYTHING controversial .
35:20 ; Then this shocker ; someone needed to move and everyone helped them... loaded the truck .... WOW ! Dude! Its supposed to be a fraternity ! MY friends would do that and they are not even in a magical order together . And then he says , in retrospect that it was ''kinda swallowing up and mounding myself .'' I and she says '' Yaaaa! ''
Then he talks about moving though degrees , which sounds accurate and he reports no issues , even saying fees were reasonable '' they are not laughing all the way to the bank'' .
'The Juice' ! from 40:00 onwards ... its what everyone was hoping to hear ... 'sex magick ' ? here he also says he got to 5th degree ( the level I got to ) I affirm what he says about OTO , up to this point is accurate - from 39:47 - 41:30
At 44:30 he admits he never had access to 'sex magic; ''There are books, you can read about '' ... sure, anyone can do that .
She seems to be struggling to find a controversy ... and he, although hinted he had a bitch about something , has not got to it ( at least so far )
46:20 ... finally, some controversy ! The case Of Adam . It does seem problematic. Something should have been done earlier . I note though that an internal investigation was held and further was uncovered , but then he says he was leaving and heard ( 'I dont know if its true or not' ) 'Adam' was back there being involved .
50:47, she makes an incorrect allegation ... he falters but then admits 'Adam' is not the degree that practices sex magic, thus refuting her claim .
Then he claims 'all men in OTO have access to woemn ''
really ? I had 'access to women' in many jobs I had . Including nursing .I need a break from these two. more later ... or maybe not .