[Help] Demon pacts

[kissmegoddess]

A few months ago, during a Tarot reading about my magical potential, I was told that I cannot practice magic because it would awaken ancient contracts made by my ancestors with demons: contracts that serve no one’s interest but the demon’s. I was also told that I could practice magic if I break the old contract. But should I completely sever it, or try to remake it under new terms?

What would be the wiser choice? I’d truly appreciate any guidance.

 

[HellenaHex]

I would recommend completely severing all contracts that are not made by you personally or by you knowingly. This is especially important if you have knowledge this contract doesn’t benefit you. Regardless of what the contracts were made to or with, I think it would be wisest that you start fresh and build natural relationships with future demons or spirits before entering a contract. It’s important to put careful thought into the terms to ensure your own safety and best interests. For example if you agree to always do offerings once a week, you need to be sure you maintain that to avoid damaging your relationship, reputation (amongst demons/spirits/fae/gods/etc), and possible unpleasant repercussions. Plus careful consideration to how the contract is worded also matters. You don’t want accidental loopholes in it or room for misinterpretation. To illustrate my point I’ll give an example. It’s a common trope for a mage to say something silly such as I wish to understand the nature of death. There is nothing wrong with wanting to understand the nature of death but unfortunately for the mage the easiest way to understand something is to experience it. So just be sure to choose your words carefully.

 

[kissmegoddess]

I would recommend completely severing all contracts that are not made by you personally or by you knowingly. This is especially important if you have knowledge this contract doesn’t benefit you. Regardless of what the contracts were made to or with, I think it would be wisest that you start fresh and build natural relationships with future demons or spirits before entering a contract. It’s important to put careful thought into the terms to ensure your own safety and best interests. For example if you agree to always do offerings once a week, you need to be sure you maintain that to avoid damaging your relationship, reputation (amongst demons/spirits/fae/gods/etc), and possible unpleasant repercussions. Plus careful consideration to how the contract is worded also matters. You don’t want accidental loopholes in it or room for misinterpretation. To illustrate my point I’ll give an example. It’s a common trope for a mage to say something silly such as I wish to understand the nature of death. There is nothing wrong with wanting to understand the nature of death but unfortunately for the mage the easiest way to understand something is to experience it. So just be sure to choose your words carefully.

Thank you so much! I was just thinking of reading more about demons, although I was already somewhat familiar with them. Besides learning about contracts, I was considering trying to summon this demon to understand how the contract was made. What do you think, maybe would that be a good idea?

 

[HellenaHex]

I don’t see a problem with it if you’re just curious and do your normal protections. I usually invite them rather than summon but that’s just my personal practice. Also be sure to have a way to discern the truth. I would definitely be curious about learning about my ancestor and pacts they made if I were you.

 

[MorganBlack]

Speaking as a goetic magician, there is nothing that is made that can't be undone. Everything under the Moon waxes and wanes. Everything dies and all contracts can be canceled. But there are prudent and imprudent approaches to this.

But do get a reading from a second diviner! With rampant internet-brain disease these days too many project the contents of their own fears and central nervous system into their readings.

I will also add. If it is your Dharma (Fate) to meddle with demons you'll do it anyway. We were the pretty spooky Saturnine kids, all without trying and long before pop culture. And if this is you, what we in this line of work do, is make friends with the much bigger bads to keep the little bads in line.

 

[FireBorn]

I would probably get a second reading from a different practitioner. it is important to confirm the information when its something like that.

Second, if there is some sort of contract or tie, I would personally cut it. Unless you want to carry it forward (sounds like you dont want to).

I cut the ties with my ancestors. Nothing they did will be carried by me in any way. My magick and my path are clean, and they are mine.

I personally asked Lilith (My matron) to help me with cutting those ties. Severing all contracts they might have had so I am clean. If you have patron/matron try asking them. If you dont have one, then if you have a demon you are interested in, invoke and ask. They will say yes, or no. Simple enough. using the aid of a demon in this case can be super helpful as they see things you do not and cannot. Just my opinion. YMMV.

Good luck.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

In our definition of magic, there are no ancient pacts, only the Covenants (Ahd/Uqoud) that are inherited or "cut" from the ancestors.

Most seers are clever enough not to deceive or manipulate you if they realize that you have affection for the Demons.

However, to sever any covenant, I strongly advise you to use Al-Barhatiah ), as it is the origin of every covenant and the one that can break (Qassam) any other pact. It is the only compelling power, until now, that is binding upon any spirit

 

[MorganBlack]

Most Goetia does not require a pact. The Key derived system do not, if I recall. The Grimorium Verum , my main grim for 25 yeard does, and quite directly includes them when making the initial formal agreements.

All pacts can be dissolved once they have served their purpose, as long as no one has gone back on their word. This not require any celestial (Overworld) power to do so. Hell polices it's own.

Western Magic owes a lot to the Greeks, especially their original pre-Homeric chthonic religions, and Orphism. It was the Erinyes, also known as the Furies, who are the very powers of the Underworld, who enforce justice, particularly against those who break oaths or commit serious crimes.

The eschatology of the Underworld was easily transferred into Catholicism where death and judgement become less Hades and Olympus, but Heaven and Hell. These are more than simple mythic re-skins, but for our purposes they are continuation of very some old idea and processes.

The only thing that needs some understanding is there is no final boss battle between Underworld and the Overworld, like reality is a Marvel movie. In many of the America's Folk Catholic cults St. Michal Archangel is the boss of the demons, their manager, and not their mortal enemy. In Vodou there is a very wise saying , "All spirits bow before God." Which I have found to be true, to my great surpise.

 

[Faria]

Besides learning about contracts, I was considering trying to summon this demon to understand how the contract was made. What do you think, maybe would that be a good idea?

No. Forget this nonsense.

Don't attempt to work with spirits to learn about them, what they do or did, or what they want or like.

Demand that they do something for you or give you some useful information about something other than the spirits themselves.

 

[MorganBlack]

I will second what Faria is saying, who is more Solomonic than I, but let me see if I can re-frame some of this.

You, yes you, are the impresario of your reality, the local Demiurge of your quantum reality. You, yes you (well, all of us) are who gives them names, roles, and things to do. You bring them coherence so you need to be self-coherent. They have a reality behind the forms, name, offices, and masks, but human-space is where the party is. We have snacks and fun games to play. And we get to have a say.

Over the past 10 years or so, there has been an influx of Protestant-to-pagan Calivanism into Goetia. Asmodus said it, I beleive it, and that's that. What he is doing is already part of the negotation and and you get to negotiate, yes, you. Push for what you want. If he hard declines, move on. Eveyone should adovate for what they want .

Pardon if this sound like preaching again. You, as the Creator in space-time, your indwelling own divinity, who is making ALL THIS * waves hand around in a circle * right now, and you get to have a say too. You just do.

Demons can be chatty, just keep pushing for what you want. Karen the fuck out of them until they do, is also valid Be your own advocate. Nobody else will.