Book Discussion Demons of Magick - Gordon Winterfield

[motzfeldt]

Just curious if anyone has used the rituals in this book to any significant effect? Or if anyone experienced in Goetia that has read it, what they thought of it? I like how it strips away a lot of the convolutions of traditional Goetia and presents something that is more accessible and practical. That said, I do believe the "tried and true" methods are classic for a reason.

Still, Ritual 3 offers the potential to summon a demon onto the physical plane, or well, as much as one can, rather than mental impressions and signs. I am very interested in performing this ritual and am wandering if anyone has had success with it. I'm slightly skeptical as I would've thought that summoning a demon before you would require much more effort and nuance, but the ritual presented here is quite minimalist.

I would love to hear other people's experiences with this book. As part of my coursework for the magical society I'm trying to initiate myself into I must dabble in Goetia, and I'm undecided between using the seemingly ease and accessibility of this book, or the more complicated but "guaranteed" traditional methods.

 

[Seimulluh]

Also it's funny with GoM books that they always say that if it wasnt safe we wouldnt publish these...

Dr. Stephen Skinner seems to be quite strict that you should always be inside the circle and have correct stuff in place when working with "Demons of Goetia", otherwise bad things might happen...
(source glitch bottle podcast)

 

[MehenVox]

Personally I think this may be the best GOM book ever written, practical and guarantees real results in terms of evocation. Obviously, like everything, you have to be careful and act with reason and awareness.

Personally I advise you to try the second ritual first to understand what sensations it leaves you with, etc. and only then with the third.

 

[motzfeldt]

Personally I think this may be the best GOM book ever written, practical and guarantees real results in terms of evocation. Obviously, like everything, you have to be careful and act with reason and awareness.

Personally I advise you to try the second ritual first to understand what sensations it leaves you with, etc. and only then with the third.

I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...

I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.

Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.

 

[MehenVox]

I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...

I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.

Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.

Honestly, I have only tried it on a couple of occasions.

In the past I spoke to a person who only used the first ritual and stated that he always achieved great results with it.

Remember that we are not all the same , everything resonates differently with each of us, especially subtle energies, perhaps you have tried to evoke an energy different from the correct one at that moment, as it is written in the book: sometimes to obtain a result, an evocation of a single entity is enough while others times more entities that act together in a strategic manner.

Do, Analyze the problem, perhaps write it in the middle of a sheet and around it place possible series of actions to achieve it.

 

[whatever0935]

I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...

I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.

Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.

Maybe you should train your astral sense, try doing energy practice. I always feel a strong sensation with ritual 2, it is kind of heavy. Let's practice and you will feel it. It took me 1 year to do energy work like Reiki and Qigong to feel subtle energy. Like someone here said, everyone has a unique gift, you have to find out.

 

[Seimulluh]

GoM mentions "Lust for Results" in majority of their books, could be related?
Also was the request you had in ritual 2 as realistic to get as in ritual 1 (that was successful)?
What about pre-ritual things like bath etc before the ritual?

 

[motzfeldt]

Honestly, I have only tried it on a couple of occasions.

In the past I spoke to a person who only used the first ritual and stated that he always achieved great results with it.

Remember that we are not all the same , everything resonates differently with each of us, especially subtle energies, perhaps you have tried to evoke an energy different from the correct one at that moment, as it is written in the book: sometimes to obtain a result, an evocation of a single entity is enough while others times more entities that act together in a strategic manner.

Do, Analyze the problem, perhaps write it in the middle of a sheet and around it place possible series of actions to achieve it.

How did Ritual 3 go for you? And yes of course, we are all different, and must use our own intuition to see what works best for us as an individual. I took a bit of a break from magic in August so I'm going to get back to trying Ritual 2 again and I'll pay careful attention. As I implied before, I'm not panicked or worrying it won't ever work. I understand it takes time, trial and error.

Maybe you should train your astral sense, try doing energy practice. I always feel a strong sensation with ritual 2, it is kind of heavy. Let's practice and you will feel it. It took me 1 year to do energy work like Reiki and Qigong to feel subtle energy. Like someone here said, everyone has a unique gift, you have to find out.

Good point on astral senses. That's not something I've trained for a long time. I will 100% get back into doing that. Feel free to link any sources pertaining to that.

GoM mentions "Lust for Results" in majority of their books, could be related?
Also was the request you had in ritual 2 as realistic to get as in ritual 1 (that was successful)?
What about pre-ritual things like bath etc before the ritual?

For Ritual 2 I didn't actually seek a particular result, I simply wanted to open a line of communication or contact. I wanted to build a rapport so to speak. As for the bath, that's not something I've ever done or considered, and well, I've never seen it mentioned in my order's coursework, or any material related to the Goetia to be honest... I'm sure it's a nice idea but I'll probably pass all the same lol.

Thanks all for the input. More is welcome.

 

[Seimulluh]

I've never seen it mentioned in my order's coursework

Let me try again, I know this sounds rude(sorry about that), but if your order/teacher doesn't know one of the fundamental things like this, maybe its time to move on for you.

Veritable key of Solomon (Skinner&Rankine) has chapter for ritual baths. "The bath is necessary for all Magical Arts, it is why before beginning any Working, the Master and the Companions should always bathe themselves in a river". <-- maybe they didnt have clean tap water

Asenath Mason in Draconian ritual book, chapter cleansing, grounding and energy raising:
"These practices are often simple methods that do not require any special experience or even much effort. One of the most effective cleansing practices is a simple bath or shower. Take a walk and get some fresh air before and after the ritual. Open the window in your temple room and let the air in. Turn on the light to disperse energies in the ritual space. To empower these mundane actions you can add herbs or cleansing oils to your bath, such as rosemary or lavender, and burn purifying incense or oils in the room. If you need to cleanse yourself from a negative influence of another person, you can envision threads of energy linking the chakras of both of you and cut them with your ritual blade or burn them with the flame of a candle."

Aaron Leitch mentions it multiple times just in his book secrets of magical grimoires.
Josephine McCarthy mentions it almost in all of her books.
Jason Miller...
I could continue the list with multiple authors but I dont know who are the ones you respect/believe.

Demons also dont like smelly people, even though some of them apparently smell bad

I recall Dr. Stephen Skinner mentioning it in one of the glitch bottle podcasts that lot of beginners neglect these things and wonder why their magic doesn't work...

 

[whatever0935]

Let me try again, I know this sounds rude(sorry about that), but if your order/teacher doesn't know one of the fundamental things like this, maybe its time to move on for you.

Veritable key of Solomon (Skinner&Rankine) has chapter for ritual baths. "The bath is necessary for all Magical Arts, it is why before beginning any Working, the Master and the Companions should always bathe themselves in a river". <-- maybe they didnt have clean tap water

Asenath Mason in Draconian ritual book, chapter cleansing, grounding and energy raising:
"These practices are often simple methods that do not require any special experience or even much effort. One of the most effective cleansing practices is a simple bath or shower. Take a walk and get some fresh air before and after the ritual. Open the window in your temple room and let the air in. Turn on the light to disperse energies in the ritual space. To empower these mundane actions you can add herbs or cleansing oils to your bath, such as rosemary or lavender, and burn purifying incense or oils in the room. If you need to cleanse yourself from a negative influence of another person, you can envision threads of energy linking the chakras of both of you and cut them with your ritual blade or burn them with the flame of a candle."

Aaron Leitch mentions it multiple times just in his book secrets of magical grimoires.
Josephine McCarthy mentions it almost in all of her books.
Jason Miller...
I could continue the list with multiple authors but I dont know who are the ones you respect/believe.

Demons also dont like smelly people, even though some of them apparently smell bad

I recall Dr. Stephen Skinner mentioning it in one of the glitch bottle podcasts that lot of beginners neglect these things and wonder why their magic doesn't work...

I think it depends. I don’t bathe before performing the ritual, as you suggested; I just follow the instructions in the book, and I still receive results. I have great respect for Steven Skinner and listen to Glitch Bottle frequently. He is a traditionalist who follows the ancient grimoires to the letter.

Jason Miller also mentions in his book that there are many ways to contact and petition spirits. It’s not necessary to make a demon appear in the material plane; I can simply send an email like, “I want this, and you will do the job, and you will be rewarded.”

Magic often relies on the magician's state of focus, skill, and astral development. Factors like their seriousness, adherence to instructions, and the clarity of their goals also play a role. Many people who use GOM techniques struggle with visualization. Even they can’t generate the necessary emotions for alchemy, that’s part of the process in those systems.
How can magic work for them?



Did they craft their statements accurately? Are their goals realistic? Do they lust for results? All these elements are important.

Even Steven Skinner isn’t 100% certain that all his magic will work. A significant contribution of modern occultism is that we can perform magic in just a few minutes without spending hours crafting tools or preparing elaborate circles—something that can seem like a hobby for the wealthy.

No wonder Austin Osman Spare laughed at Golden Dawn members; he believed that simply drawing a sigil could make magic happen. It's not just with the DOM book; even with NAP, many people achieve results. How can we explain this? It feels like some people act as gatekeepers to magic, perhaps out of jealousy because they’ve invested hours in rituals to attract simple outcomes, while others using pathworking magic can complete rituals in 60 seconds.
.

​