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Just curious if anyone has used the rituals in this book to any significant effect? Or if anyone experienced in Goetia that has read it, what they thought of it? I like how it strips away a lot of the convolutions of traditional Goetia and presents something that is more accessible and practical. That said, I do believe the "tried and true" methods are classic for a reason.
Still, Ritual 3 offers the potential to summon a demon onto the physical plane, or well, as much as one can, rather than mental impressions and signs. I am very interested in performing this ritual and am wandering if anyone has had success with it. I'm slightly skeptical as I would've thought that summoning a demon before you would require much more effort and nuance, but the ritual presented here is quite minimalist.
I would love to hear other people's experiences with this book. As part of my coursework for the magical society I'm trying to initiate myself into I must dabble in Goetia, and I'm undecided between using the seemingly ease and accessibility of this book, or the more complicated but "guaranteed" traditional methods.
Also it's funny with GoM books that they always say that if it wasnt safe we wouldnt publish these...
Dr. Stephen Skinner seems to be quite strict that you should always be inside the circle and have correct stuff in place when working with "Demons of Goetia", otherwise bad things might happen...
(source glitch bottle podcast)
Personally I think this may be the best GOM book ever written, practical and guarantees real results in terms of evocation. Obviously, like everything, you have to be careful and act with reason and awareness.
Personally I advise you to try the second ritual first to understand what sensations it leaves you with, etc. and only then with the third.
Personally I think this may be the best GOM book ever written, practical and guarantees real results in terms of evocation. Obviously, like everything, you have to be careful and act with reason and awareness.
Personally I advise you to try the second ritual first to understand what sensations it leaves you with, etc. and only then with the third.
I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...
I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.
Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.
I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...
I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.
Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.
Honestly, I have only tried it on a couple of occasions.
In the past I spoke to a person who only used the first ritual and stated that he always achieved great results with it.
Remember that we are not all the same , everything resonates differently with each of us, especially subtle energies, perhaps you have tried to evoke an energy different from the correct one at that moment, as it is written in the book: sometimes to obtain a result, an evocation of a single entity is enough while others times more entities that act together in a strategic manner.
Do, Analyze the problem, perhaps write it in the middle of a sheet and around it place possible series of actions to achieve it.
I have done both Ritual 1 and Ritual 2. With Ritual 1, I petitioned for a certain result, and well, 1 month later, I got what I asked for. I did Ritual 2 for the same demon 2 separate times and I'll be honest, I didn't feel much. I'm not saying that Ritual 2 doesn't work. but for whatever reason, I didn't really feel a connection. Maybe the demon just wasn't interested at that particular time, maybe they were testing my commitment to communicating with them and wanted me to do the ritual a handful more times, maybe it wasn't the right time of day, etc etc etc...
I'm not sure, however, I am going to do Ritual 2 a couple of more times. I was pleasantly surprised by the results of Ritual 1. My ultimate goal though like many who dabble in Goetia, is to summon the demon before me. Hence my particular interest in Ritual 3. I am going to work up to it and like I said, do Ritual 2 a few more times.
Have you tried Ritual 3 yourself? What are your experiences with this book? I'm glad you think highly of the book though! I've read a few different books on demonology and this definitely seems like the best one, in terms of accessibility and scope.
Maybe you should train your astral sense, try doing energy practice. I always feel a strong sensation with ritual 2, it is kind of heavy. Let's practice and you will feel it. It took me 1 year to do energy work like Reiki and Qigong to feel subtle energy. Like someone here said, everyone has a unique gift, you have to find out.
GoM mentions "Lust for Results" in majority of their books, could be related?
Also was the request you had in ritual 2 as realistic to get as in ritual 1 (that was successful)?
What about pre-ritual things like bath etc before the ritual?
Honestly, I have only tried it on a couple of occasions.
In the past I spoke to a person who only used the first ritual and stated that he always achieved great results with it.
Remember that we are not all the same , everything resonates differently with each of us, especially subtle energies, perhaps you have tried to evoke an energy different from the correct one at that moment, as it is written in the book: sometimes to obtain a result, an evocation of a single entity is enough while others times more entities that act together in a strategic manner.
Do, Analyze the problem, perhaps write it in the middle of a sheet and around it place possible series of actions to achieve it.
How did Ritual 3 go for you? And yes of course, we are all different, and must use our own intuition to see what works best for us as an individual. I took a bit of a break from magic in August so I'm going to get back to trying Ritual 2 again and I'll pay careful attention. As I implied before, I'm not panicked or worrying it won't ever work. I understand it takes time, trial and error.
Maybe you should train your astral sense, try doing energy practice. I always feel a strong sensation with ritual 2, it is kind of heavy. Let's practice and you will feel it. It took me 1 year to do energy work like Reiki and Qigong to feel subtle energy. Like someone here said, everyone has a unique gift, you have to find out.
Good point on astral senses. That's not something I've trained for a long time. I will 100% get back into doing that. Feel free to link any sources pertaining to that.
GoM mentions "Lust for Results" in majority of their books, could be related?
Also was the request you had in ritual 2 as realistic to get as in ritual 1 (that was successful)?
What about pre-ritual things like bath etc before the ritual?
For Ritual 2 I didn't actually seek a particular result, I simply wanted to open a line of communication or contact. I wanted to build a rapport so to speak. As for the bath, that's not something I've ever done or considered, and well, I've never seen it mentioned in my order's coursework, or any material related to the Goetia to be honest... I'm sure it's a nice idea but I'll probably pass all the same lol.
Let me try again, I know this sounds rude(sorry about that), but if your order/teacher doesn't know one of the fundamental things like this, maybe its time to move on for you.
Veritable key of Solomon (Skinner&Rankine) has chapter for ritual baths. "The bath is necessary for all Magical Arts, it is why before beginning any Working, the Master and the Companions should always bathe themselves in a river". <-- maybe they didnt have clean tap water
Asenath Mason in Draconian ritual book, chapter cleansing, grounding and energy raising:
"These practices are often simple methods that do not require any special experience or even much effort. One of the most effective cleansing practices is a simple bath or shower. Take a walk and get some fresh air before and after the ritual. Open the window in your temple room and let the air in. Turn on the light to disperse energies in the ritual space. To empower these mundane actions you can add herbs or cleansing oils to your bath, such as rosemary or lavender, and burn purifying incense or oils in the room. If you need to cleanse yourself from a negative influence of another person, you can envision threads of energy linking the chakras of both of you and cut them with your ritual blade or burn them with the flame of a candle."
Aaron Leitch mentions it multiple times just in his book secrets of magical grimoires.
Josephine McCarthy mentions it almost in all of her books.
Jason Miller...
I could continue the list with multiple authors but I dont know who are the ones you respect/believe.
Demons also dont like smelly people, even though some of them apparently smell bad
I recall Dr. Stephen Skinner mentioning it in one of the glitch bottle podcasts that lot of beginners neglect these things and wonder why their magic doesn't work...
Let me try again, I know this sounds rude(sorry about that), but if your order/teacher doesn't know one of the fundamental things like this, maybe its time to move on for you.
Veritable key of Solomon (Skinner&Rankine) has chapter for ritual baths. "The bath is necessary for all Magical Arts, it is why before beginning any Working, the Master and the Companions should always bathe themselves in a river". <-- maybe they didnt have clean tap water
Asenath Mason in Draconian ritual book, chapter cleansing, grounding and energy raising:
"These practices are often simple methods that do not require any special experience or even much effort. One of the most effective cleansing practices is a simple bath or shower. Take a walk and get some fresh air before and after the ritual. Open the window in your temple room and let the air in. Turn on the light to disperse energies in the ritual space. To empower these mundane actions you can add herbs or cleansing oils to your bath, such as rosemary or lavender, and burn purifying incense or oils in the room. If you need to cleanse yourself from a negative influence of another person, you can envision threads of energy linking the chakras of both of you and cut them with your ritual blade or burn them with the flame of a candle."
Aaron Leitch mentions it multiple times just in his book secrets of magical grimoires.
Josephine McCarthy mentions it almost in all of her books.
Jason Miller...
I could continue the list with multiple authors but I dont know who are the ones you respect/believe.
Demons also dont like smelly people, even though some of them apparently smell bad
I recall Dr. Stephen Skinner mentioning it in one of the glitch bottle podcasts that lot of beginners neglect these things and wonder why their magic doesn't work...
I think it depends. I don’t bathe before performing the ritual, as you suggested; I just follow the instructions in the book, and I still receive results. I have great respect for Steven Skinner and listen to Glitch Bottle frequently. He is a traditionalist who follows the ancient grimoires to the letter.
Jason Miller also mentions in his book that there are many ways to contact and petition spirits. It’s not necessary to make a demon appear in the material plane; I can simply send an email like, “I want this, and you will do the job, and you will be rewarded.”
Magic often relies on the magician's state of focus, skill, and astral development. Factors like their seriousness, adherence to instructions, and the clarity of their goals also play a role. Many people who use GOM techniques struggle with visualization. Even they can’t generate the necessary emotions for alchemy, that’s part of the process in those systems.
How can magic work for them?
Did they craft their statements accurately? Are their goals realistic? Do they lust for results? All these elements are important.
Even Steven Skinner isn’t 100% certain that all his magic will work. A significant contribution of modern occultism is that we can perform magic in just a few minutes without spending hours crafting tools or preparing elaborate circles—something that can seem like a hobby for the wealthy.
No wonder Austin Osman Spare laughed at Golden Dawn members; he believed that simply drawing a sigil could make magic happen. It's not just with the DOM book; even with NAP, many people achieve results. How can we explain this? It feels like some people act as gatekeepers to magic, perhaps out of jealousy because they’ve invested hours in rituals to attract simple outcomes, while others using pathworking magic can complete rituals in 60 seconds.
.
So it's not really related to the efficacy of the rituals. Like I stated earlier, I did 1 ritual and got a result from it, and I did 2 others and got nothing... My critique is not related to the lack of results from the other 2 rituals because I know that could've been for a multitude of reasons. So, before I ever did a ritual from this book, I was immediately put off by the overly Abrahamic approach. I'm happy to work with any religious framework really and I know that Goetia is inherently Abrahamic but I don't like the whole calling on the power of YHVH and using angels to bind the demons, etc. I don't wish to bully or coerce demons to do my bidding; I'd prefer a mutual, amicable relationship (as much as one can have). I know the author says it's a natural part of the hierarchy but it's not my style, there are plenty of other methods to work with Goetic demons which offer a less aggressive approach. Nevertheless, I was willing to put aside my doubts for the sake of results.
Secondly, and again before I ever did a ritual, I didn't like the writer's tone. It comes off as "I know what I'm doing. You don't. Listen to me.", somewhat holier-than-thou (no pun intended). Reading other people's thoughts on this book it seems I'm not alone in getting this impression. I get that this book is mostly for beginners but still, it just rubbed me the wrong way. This is a minor issue and can be easily overlooked to be honest, which I did, again, for the sake of results. While talking about results the author consistently reminds us that you WILL get results but at the same time you might not... I found that a bit annoying. If I were writing a book of this nature I would never promise results (even if I believed they were a guarantee), and I certaintly wouldn't put an asterisk beside that promise saying that the promise might not come true.
So the above 2 things didn't thrill me but didn't stop me either from using the book. However I discovered that this book is part of a series of books called "Gallery of Magick". I investigated Gallery of Magick books further and ultimately this is what put me off. The whole series just reeks of "pop occultism" and easily digestible mass marketed crap. The books promise MAGIC RESULTS FAST NOW but they don't offer anything in the way of theory, there's no reflection on the metaphysical aspect of anything, they just feel a bit shallow. I'm reminded of wine aunts who are desperate for their ex husband to come back, or late night infomercials with tacky slogans like "Ready to Unlock Your Hidden Power?—Discover the Magic That Will Change Your Life Today!". Again, I know the books are meant for beginners but the overall presentation and marketing of these books is just... tacky. The series teach you, on a fairly shallow level, to do magic, but with none of the mysticism. IMO a true occultist is both a magician and a mystic.
So I'd already tapped out of being interested in this book by the time I read more about GoM but the last thing that really sealed the deal for me was the supposed curse that's put on ALL GoM books against pirates (you can see evidence of it within DoM). Now, I do not condone piracy. One should get their fair dues for something they've put work in to, absolutely. In my case, if I ever pirate a book, like it and get value from it, I will 100% buy it. I have a large physical collection of occult books and many of those I had first read "illegally". I do this because I read a lot, I simply cannot buy every single book I flick through or take a vague, brief interest in. I honestly hate reading books in .pdf form, but often I'll read/skim through it first in digital form and if it's a book I see myself using repeatedly I am very happy to buy it. I would've happily bought DoM if I'd decided to keep using it. I've read tons of occult books and I've never come across lines in a book that say "if you pirated this THERE'S A CURSE ON YOU!". I dunno, it just feels slightly petulant (on top of the whole mass marketed pop feel). Maybe others will think my taking issue with the "curse" is petulant but what can I say? We've all pirated books, especially on WF...
This critique was far longer than I imagined! I don't want to disparage someone who wants to use it though. If you're happy to use YHVH's angels to bind demons and you don't mind the pop-feel of this/these book/s then by all means go ahead. Personally it's just not for me. I admit that I was drawn to this book originally because of the "RESULTS NOW" aspect. I've been trying to initiate myself into a specific order the past year and the whole time I just couldn't wait to start working with the Goetia, so my excitement maybe got the better of me. The methods "my" order presents are definitely less instant and flashy, but they strike me as more sincere and they do away with the "power of angels" to bind demons for you, so I think I will just stick to those methods...
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I also know that it's somewhat ironic how I was impressed by this book for it's accessibility and scope, and now I'm criticizing that But well, I've been obsessed with Goetia the past 2-3 months, I've learnt a lot and changed opinions more than once. I do believe in simplifying the complicated traditional methods, but, like I said in the previous post, I feel an element of mysticism and nuance is necessary... I guess it's about finding the right balance, and also, presenting it in a more formal manner.
In short I'm just another asshole with shitty opinions. If you like this book go for it.
So it's not really related to the efficacy of the rituals. Like I stated earlier, I did 1 ritual and got a result from it, and I did 2 others and got nothing... My critique is not related to the lack of results from the other 2 rituals because I know that could've been for a multitude of reasons. So, before I ever did a ritual from this book, I was immediately put off by the overly Abrahamic approach. I'm happy to work with any religious framework really and I know that Goetia is inherently Abrahamic but I don't like the whole calling on the power of YHVH and using angels to bind the demons, etc. I don't wish to bully or coerce demons to do my bidding; I'd prefer a mutual, amicable relationship (as much as one can have). I know the author says it's a natural part of the hierarchy but it's not my style, there are plenty of other methods to work with Goetic demons which offer a less aggressive approach. Nevertheless, I was willing to put aside my doubts for the sake of results.
Secondly, and again before I ever did a ritual, I didn't like the writer's tone. It comes off as "I know what I'm doing. You don't. Listen to me.", somewhat holier-than-thou (no pun intended). Reading other people's thoughts on this book it seems I'm not alone in getting this impression. I get that this book is mostly for beginners but still, it just rubbed me the wrong way. This is a minor issue and can be easily overlooked to be honest, which I did, again, for the sake of results. While talking about results the author consistently reminds us that you WILL get results but at the same time you might not... I found that a bit annoying. If I were writing a book of this nature I would never promise results (even if I believed they were a guarantee), and I certaintly wouldn't put an asterisk beside that promise saying that the promise might not come true.
So the above 2 things didn't thrill me but didn't stop me either from using the book. However I discovered that this book is part of a series of books called "Gallery of Magick". I investigated Gallery of Magick books further and ultimately this is what put me off. The whole series just reeks of "pop occultism" and easily digestible mass marketed crap. The books promise MAGIC RESULTS FAST NOW but they don't offer anything in the way of theory, there's no reflection on the metaphysical aspect of anything, they just feel a bit shallow. I'm reminded of wine aunts who are desperate for their ex husband to come back, or late night infomercials with tacky slogans like "Ready to Unlock Your Hidden Power?—Discover the Magic That Will Change Your Life Today!". Again, I know the books are meant for beginners but the overall presentation and marketing of these books is just... tacky. The series teach you, on a fairly shallow level, to do magic, but with none of the mysticism. IMO a true occultist is both a magician and a mystic.
So I'd already tapped out of being interested in this book by the time I read more about GoM but the last thing that really sealed the deal for me was the supposed curse that's put on ALL GoM books against pirates (you can see evidence of it within DoM). Now, I do not condone piracy. One should get their fair dues for something they've put work in to, absolutely. In my case, if I ever pirate a book, like it and get value from it, I will 100% buy it. I have a large physical collection of occult books and many of those I had first read "illegally". I do this because I read a lot, I simply cannot buy every single book I flick through or take a vague, brief interest in. I honestly hate reading books in .pdf form, but often I'll read/skim through it first in digital form and if it's a book I see myself using repeatedly I am very happy to buy it. I would've happily bought DoM if I'd decided to keep using it. I've read tons of occult books and I've never come across lines in a book that say "if you pirated this THERE'S A CURSE ON YOU!". I dunno, it just feels slightly petulant (on top of the whole mass marketed pop feel). Maybe others will think my taking issue with the "curse" is petulant but what can I say? We've all pirated books, especially on WF...
This critique was far longer than I imagined! I don't want to disparage someone who wants to use it though. If you're happy to use YHVH's angels to bind demons and you don't mind the pop-feel of this/these book/s then by all means go ahead. Personally it's just not for me. I admit that I was drawn to this book originally because of the "RESULTS NOW" aspect. I've been trying to initiate myself into a specific order the past year and the whole time I just couldn't wait to start working with the Goetia, so my excitement maybe got the better of me. The methods "my" order presents are definitely less instant and flashy, but they strike me as more sincere and they do away with the "power of angels" to bind demons for you, so I think I will just stick to those methods...
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I also know that it's somewhat ironic how I was impressed by this book for it's accessibility and scope, and now I'm criticizing that But well, I've been obsessed with Goetia the past 2-3 months, I've learnt a lot and changed opinions more than once. I do believe in simplifying the complicated traditional methods, but, like I said in the previous post, I feel an element of mysticism and nuance is necessary... I guess it's about finding the right balance, and also, presenting it in a more formal manner.
In short I'm just another asshole with shitty opinions. If you like this book go for it.
The GOM book is the reason I delved deep into the occult, and you are right about some aspects. Their book makes magic seem so accessible that people often don’t consider it a serious practice; they typically use it only to solve their problems when they arise. Some people even ask why they don’t see spirits during evocation, thinking that seeing spirits is simple. It actually takes many years of initiation to achieve that ability. Many of them can’t even feel the spirit's energy during invocation, so how can they expect to see spirits in this realm? Some individuals struggle with visualization altogether
I'm considering that after I achieve financial stability, I will set aside some of the GOM practices and focus on the Franz Bardon system.
As I mentioned, the GOM book serves as a filter for those who want to dive deep into magic. Some people may stop at using their book and move on to something else.
