Discussion about the concept of magic words

[AlfrunGrima]

I am eager to explore a concept more in dept. It is a sentence I once wrote down in one of my notebooks like I have many others. I invite you all to discuss, ask questions to yourself and each other about this sentence/concept:

'a magic word gives power to the magician because outsiders don't know the meaning of the word'

 

[HoldAll]

If you mean by "magic words"

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, barbarous names or whatever you call it, magicians probably won't understand them themselves. The Greek Magical Papryri are thick with them; there are basically three schools of thought:

1. These barbarous names do have meaning, they are corrupted words and phrases from dead or obscure languaged, similar to "hocus-pocus" which is a garbled version of the Latin transsubstantion prayer used in Catholic mass ("Hoc est enim corpus meum").

2. They don't have meaning (see discussion here) but purely performative value, geared towards putting the magician (and also his audience, for example during a healing) in a special frame of mind.

3. They have hidden meaning that can be decoded by numerology or attributing planets, signs of the zodiac, etc. to the consonants and vowels, a view that is e.g. espoused by Michael Kelly in his "Words of Power".

Depending on the context, words you don't understand may arouse different feelings, ranging from awe (because they sound impressive) to open hostility ("Somebody's gabbing at me in a foreign lingo!"). Against a suitably ritualistic backdrop, these words may in fact have power over the audience but they might also sound silly if you're unable to convey a certain sense of solemnity; it's also the performance of the ritual that counts. First of all you need to convince yourself that you're doing something meaningful and spectacular; impressing others will not depend on the words alone but also on gestures, charisma, props, etc. On the other hand, knowing the meaning of a word that others don't automatically gives you an edge, knowledge being power and so on.

 

[Taudefindi]

'a magic word gives power to the magician because outsiders don't know the meaning of the word'

Which kind of "power" are we talking about though?Because "power" can mean a myriad of things, for example: the raw power of strength, economical power through wealth, charisma(personal power to charm others), focus can be a type of power too, etc.

So which power you're talking about when you speak of magic words "giving power" to the magician?

First of all you need to convince yourself that you're doing something meaningful and spectacular; impressing others will not depend on the words alone but also on gestures, charisma, props, etc.

Just as is in theater, words alone mean nothing if not accompanied by something else to "embody/empower them".

Words are just words and make no change.Intention is the most basic thing that should be attached to words in order for them to have some effect(a really simple example is using words dipped in charm to influence someone to do something you want, and this isn't even a magical example but it can "work like magic" when done right).

 

[IllusiveOwl]

The rightly placed word can kill millions in a flash. It might not be whimsical, it does not mean some ancient symbolic allegory, but the word "Fire" under certain circumstances, will have a catastrophic result in the real world.

Words do nothing more than point to the ineffable, the right words and the right combination of them can get you anywhere in material reality, with a plan and good execution, anything you want could be yours, any challenge overcome. The effect words have are magical in themselves, if you're conscious enough to use them right.

 

[HoldAll]

BARBATHIAO BAINCHOOOCH NIABOAITHABRAB SESENGENBARPHARARGES . . . PHREIMI (PGM III, 12) (the actual spell is much longer, and barbarous names abound throughout - the foregoing is a comparatively short sample)

Betz notes: "The letters BARBATHIAOBAINCHOOOCHNIABOAITHABRAB form a palindrome. BAINCHOOOCH ("soul of Khukh," the god of darkness) is often read separately, but is adapted to this form for numerological reasons: the formula adds up to 3663. [which apparently means something, no idea)

This is a nice example for a case where all three theories I mentioned can be applied. It's a revenge spell or one to destroy your enemies, so these (putatively) nonsensical words should be delivered full of hate and thirst for retribution. My personal test for barbarous names is this: When they fail to give you goosebumps when you utter them, you're not there yet (I myself am not there yet but I keep on practising). Now does knowing that BAINCHOOOCH means "soul of Khukh," the god of darkness, gives you power over your fellow men who don't? It only does when you cast that spell, in isolation it will probably do nothing for you.

 

[Taudefindi]

My personal test for barbarous names is this: When they fail to give you goosebumps when you utter them, you're not there yet (I myself am not there yet but I keep on practising).

You just need a bit of dramatic flair.

And project your voice so it sounds thunderous.

The effect words have are magical in themselves, if you're conscious enough to use them right.

Makes me wonder if this is also why "affirmations" seems to be so popular too.The whole "be careful of what you say/wish because it might happen" is also a staple when it comes to words having power, and yet the words used in this case aren't "magical sounding words", just regular ones.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

be careful of what you say/wish

Buddha said that words are like water that nourish the crops we reap. Water seeds of hate and gather a harvest of hate, water seeds of power, gain a harvest of power. Same with love, compassion, equanimity. Seasons change whether we like it or not, but the coming bounty is determined by our conscious nourishing.

Words are just sounds, yet the world beyond words can be influenced by them, thoughts changing thoughts, that's magical to this bird

 

[Xenophon]

I am eager to explore a concept more in dept. It is a sentence I once wrote down in one of my notebooks like I have many others. I invite you all to discuss, ask questions to yourself and each other about this sentence/concept:

'a magic word gives power to the magician because outsiders don't know the meaning of the word'

I might suggest the outsiders don't know the meaning as conjoined to the mage's intention. That is, the word might be known pretty widely, even a barbarous one. But as used by the mage with his intention, it takes on its peculiar power. This might be part of why one works in private, indeed in secret.

 

[HoldAll]

You just need a bit of dramatic flair.

And project your voice so it sounds thunderous.

Thanks for reminding me, I've been meaning to look into voice projection for a long time!

Post automatically merged: Aug 24, 2024

It takes practice though to utter barbarous names with full force and conviction. First you feel like a fool for babbling some gobbledegook, stumble over unaccustomed syllables, battle with intonation, pitch, duration, the proper emotional charge, etc.

Battle cries would be a good example where ordinary words take on inspiring power, advertising slogans, memes... the list is endless.

 

[Lurker]

If you mean by "magic words"

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, barbarous names or whatever you call it, magicians probably won't understand them themselves. The Greek Magical Papryri are thick with them; there are basically three schools of thought:

1. These barbarous names do have meaning, they are corrupted words and phrases from dead or obscure languaged, similar to "hocus-pocus" which is a garbled version of the Latin transsubstantion prayer used in Catholic mass ("Hoc est enim corpus meum").

2. They don't have meaning (see discussion here) but purely performative value, geared towards putting the magician (and also his audience, for example during a healing) in a special frame of mind.

3. They have hidden meaning that can be decoded by numerology or attributing planets, signs of the zodiac, etc. to the consonants and vowels, a view that is e.g. espoused by Michael Kelly in his "Words of Power".

Depending on the context, words you don't understand may arouse different feelings, ranging from awe (because they sound impressive) to open hostility ("Somebody's gabbing at me in a foreign lingo!"). Against a suitably ritualistic backdrop, these words may in fact have power over the audience but they might also sound silly if you're unable to convey a certain sense of solemnity; it's also the performance of the ritual that counts. First of all you need to convince yourself that you're doing something meaningful and spectacular; impressing others will not depend on the words alone but also on gestures, charisma, props, etc. On the other hand, knowing the meaning of a word that others don't automatically gives you an edge, knowledge being power and so on.

That's a good take on the barbarous names.

IMO, magick words in general are another form of correspondence, meaning another way of symbolically encoding your intent and energy for your unconscious mind. Since the unconscious mind is the realm of symbols and emotions, the performative value matters a lot in terms of both symbolism and energy, whether you're using a barbarous name, speaking in tongues, or using any other magick word. (In my metaphysical model the unconscious mind works magick by transcending the egoic boundaries of the intellectual mind in order to create synchronicities.)

 

[Butterfly Affect]

I guess all words are "magic words". Words are just noises that come out of human's mouth that we ascribe meaning to, or symbols being scribbled down in a certain order. "flurpledurple" has no meaning but I can ascribe it meaning if I want it to.

I guess some words in other languages like latin or chinese could be "magic words" if no one else in the room knows it. Is 苹果 a magic word? Maybe it is now.

 

[Xenophon]

I guess all words are "magic words". Words are just noises that come out of human's mouth that we ascribe meaning to, or symbols being scribbled down in a certain order. "flurpledurple" has no meaning but I can ascribe it meaning if I want it to.

I guess some words in other languages like latin or chinese could be "magic words" if no one else in the room knows it. Is 苹果 a magic word? Maybe it is now.

Steve Jobs made it one. (苹果。） Intention and tone and performance have a lot to do with what becomes magick. I heard about some forgettable Yank writer who had a set-to with an Italian driver in Rome in the 50's. The writer bore the other's abuse for a few minutes, then launched in with his tourist phrasebook Italian. "Where is the pencil of my uncle!" "I want a blue bath towel!" "Please, can you get me a cup of coffee?" All delivered in Italian with histrionic gestures, thundering tones, and direful countenance. The other guy caved and fled. Or so the story goes.

Still, it's easier to get into the spirit of the thing if, say when casting a mortal curse, "Én fel fogom falni a lelkedet!" really does mean "I will devour your soul!" and not, "I'm wearing me mum's knickers."

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Lot's of good thoughts, thank you all for that! I am going to read things carefully, but will take time for it. I started the post, but soon forgot about this post. I am new to this forum and there is so much to read. I can read here for weeks or more! It is incredible.

I see above a lot about tone and performance. As a singer (soprano, choirs) recognize things in that. It is sometimes a hell of a job to bring the story of the text with purpose, the right intention and emotion and really telling the story that is written down. You certainly need some visualization back in your mind for that. (and when playing my baroque oboe, it is even worse. That is music without text) I never realized how much this is supporting my performance in magic. I took it always for granted. Maybe music or drama classes are a good contribution when a person learns to perform magic.

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

I am eager to explore a concept more in dept. It is a sentence I once wrote down in one of my notebooks like I have many others. I invite you all to discuss, ask questions to yourself and each other about this sentence/concept:

'a magic word gives power to the magician because outsiders don't know the meaning of the word'

Magic words as you were describing them are basically just vocalized sigils. Same mechanic of directing intent/will into a created symbol to manifest a result, except in this case instead of a symbol it's a word. Whether that intent is to cause an effect or call a spirit or channel something doesn't matter.

Of course if you go deeper, you can just directly speak your will to manifest if you have developed your will enough, as the dude who mentioned affirmations above.

 

[Xenophon]

"Vocalized sigils"---well put! That's on my "to plagiarize" list.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Magic words as you were describing them are basically just vocalized sigils. Same mechanic of directing intent/will into a created symbol to manifest a result, except in this case instead of a symbol it's a word. Whether that intent is to cause an effect or call a spirit or channel something doesn't matter.

Of course if you go deeper, you can just directly speak your will to manifest if you have developed your will enough, as the dude who mentioned affirmations above.

I like your description of vocalized sigils.