[Help] Divination: What Qs do you ask? I'm at a loss

[pixel_fortune]

tl;dr when divining to know the future, what questions do you ask? I can't think of any info about the future that would be useful/actionable, other than lottery numbers which I don't think works

I've always used divination (primarily tarot) in a very psychological way, to help with decision-making. "Should I take this job or stay freelancing?" that kind of thing. Or (esp. with spirit communication), say "What area of my life would benefit from invoking your influence?" type Qs.

I'd like to attempt more future-prediction style divination - but I can't think of anything I want to ask! "Will I get this job?" Well, I'll find out in a week anyway. I suppose I could use it as an additional check - "Is there anything terrible about this job I'm not aware of?" but generally speaking I know what I'm getting into, and the decision-making is purely about my own values (eg, how much do I dislike full-time work vs the admin hassles of freelance work).

(I'm not looking for a job rn by the way, it's just an example).

The only future things I care about are:
1. Undivinable (lottery numbers, winning horses)
2. Too scary (will I die in the next 10 years?)

My feeling is that you shouldn't ask future questions unless the answer would change your behaviour. EG, if I hadn't even applied for a job, and I did a divination, "will I get the job?" and got a No, I might think - well, no point applying then. But I don't like that approach. I would still apply. And since I will still apply, why ask?

 

[Xenophon]

tl;dr when divining to know the future, what questions do you ask? I can't think of any info about the future that would be useful/actionable, other than lottery numbers which I don't think works

I've always used divination (primarily tarot) in a very psychological way, to help with decision-making. "Should I take this job or stay freelancing?" that kind of thing. Or (esp. with spirit communication), say "What area of my life would benefit from invoking your influence?" type Qs.

I'd like to attempt more future-prediction style divination - but I can't think of anything I want to ask! "Will I get this job?" Well, I'll find out in a week anyway. I suppose I could use it as an additional check - "Is there anything terrible about this job I'm not aware of?" but generally speaking I know what I'm getting into, and the decision-making is purely about my own values (eg, how much do I dislike full-time work vs the admin hassles of freelance work).

(I'm not looking for a job rn by the way, it's just an example).

The only future things I care about are:
1. Undivinable (lottery numbers, winning horses)
2. Too scary (will I die in the next 10 years?)

My feeling is that you shouldn't ask future questions unless the answer would change your behaviour. EG, if I hadn't even applied for a job, and I did a divination, "will I get the job?" and got a No, I might think - well, no point applying then. But I don't like that approach. I would still apply. And since I will still apply, why ask?

Generally I ask what way doing X will tend. That is, will X course of action lead to negative or positive results for me. Example: "If I do healing rite X, will it tend to be efficacious?" "Or should I do rite Y?" In general I don't ask what will happen in the future. I just ask whether a given act I contemplate will lead in a favorable or unfavorable direction.

As I noted in another thread, though, I've drifted away from doing much divination. To quote the novel I keep harping on, (Runesong Ruin, by Jon Grena), "He who accedes to Norns' decree need never cast a rune."

 

[pixel_fortune]

In general I don't ask what will happen in the future. I just ask whether a given act I contemplate will lead in a favorable or unfavorable direction.

Thanks, that angle makes sense. Would you then not follow through on a rite that divination said wasn't going to succeed? I feel like I would still want to try, if it was something that mattered to me.

As I noted in another thread, though, I've drifted away from doing much divination. To quote the novel I keep harping on, (Runesong Ruin, by Jon Grena), "He who accedes to Norns' decree need never cast a rune.

Is that like an Amor Fati thing?

[explanation if anyone needs it - the Stoic concept of "love of fate", that whatever god or the universe or Providence has planned for you is by definition the right thing, and so you should love it, even if it seems bad to your puny human eyes]

 

[Xenophon]

Thanks, that angle makes sense. Would you then not follow through on a rite that divination said wasn't going to succeed? I feel like I would still want to try, if it was something that mattered to me.


Is that like an Amor Fati thing?

[explanation if anyone needs it - the Stoic concept of "love of fate", that whatever god or the universe or Providence has planned for you is by definition the right thing, and so you should love it, even if it seems bad to your puny human eyes]

If the oracle says no, I don't do it. I may ask whether the problem is the rite as such or whether it's the timing. If it's the latter, I wait for an interval. If it's the rite, I may try to design workarounds of varying degree of re-engineering. Or, if I have qualms, I may just take no as no.

Amor fati? I suppose it comes to that. "Amor" is maybe a bit strong a word. More like Edward G. Robinson in "Little Caesar.": "I can take anything youse dish out." Or as an Albanian I worked under in a trying time put it, "We grab the ankles and hope for olive oil,right?"

 

[HoldAll]

tl;dr when divining to know the future, what questions do you ask? I can't think of any info about the future that would be useful/actionable, other than lottery numbers which I don't think works

My feeling is that you shouldn't ask future questions unless the answer would change your behaviour. EG, if I hadn't even applied for a job, and I did a divination, "will I get the job?" and got a No, I might think - well, no point applying then. But I don't like that approach. I would still apply. And since I will still apply, why ask?

I don't like divination, I always feel that such predictions determine my future, taking away my freedom to act and make my own decisions. I'd sometimes use the I-Ging though because the answers I get are more like a diagnosis of present conditions, of my current starting point for future acting. It is clearly biased against making rash decisions, impatience (and also spontaneity); it seems to me that every other time I get "perseverance furthers" in its verdicts. Sometimes it feels like getting advice from a wise old grandfather who doesn't go out much. Often it suggests better original questions, like "Wouldn't you rather ask if it is wise to act now or rather delay instead of wanting to know if yourself are prepared sufficiently?" It's hard to describe. I only ever consult it when I'm truly stumped; it never offers clear-cut solutions but rather food for thought (and just the right kind) instead of inscrutable fortune-cookie wisdom.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I don't like divination, I always feel that such predictions determine my future, taking away my freedom to act and make my own decisions.

I guess my reasoning for wanting to try predictive divination was to take a more magical approach rather than a psychological approach - to be more of a magician. I probably don't learn anything from tarot I couldn't learn from rigorous journalling or a therapist (which is very valuable, but not very magical).

I did try a lost-object Lenormand reading - it didn't give me any useful info, but when I looked again, I found the missing item. (I tried to tie where I found it to the reading, but it was, to quote pet owners everywhere, a biiiig stretch). I suspect it just did a visual refresh of my cortex. Which is not useless, but is not magical - the equivalent of when you find something the second you give up.

 

[Xenophon]

I don't like divination, I always feel that such predictions determine my future, taking away my freedom to act and make my own decisions. I'd sometimes use the I-Ging though because the answers I get are more like a diagnosis of present conditions, of my current starting point for future acting. It is clearly biased against making rash decisions, impatience (and also spontaneity); it seems to me that every other time I get "perseverance furthers" in its verdicts. Sometimes it feels like getting advice from a wise old grandfather who doesn't go out much. Often it suggests better original questions, like "Wouldn't you rather ask if it is wise to act now or rather delay instead of wanting to know if yourself are prepared sufficiently?" It's hard to describe. I only ever consult it when I'm truly stumped; it never offers clear-cut solutions but rather food for thought (and just the right kind) instead of inscrutable fortune-cookie wisdom.

Which Yi Jing/I Ching translation do you use? I started out with Richard Wilhelm and was inundated with the inanity of it all. Legge, by contrast, actually is helpful. Other folks have the converse experience. In any case, the version I use actually kicks out pretty straightforward answers, insofar as "Do X" or "Bad idea" is concerned. Whether I act on the advice and how, well that's what a lot of old timey literature is, innit? The protagonist checking the oracles for wiggle room.

 

[Mars]

Where are my keys
Where is my phone
Will the person say yes or no (answer I want or don't want)
Is this person meeting someone
Will this animal be hit by a car
Will I get a dumb reply to my post
Does this vending machine have spare change/ items left I can take
Will this dog bite me if I get too close
Can I ride this train without ticket or are there controllers catching me

Etc. 90% of queries are in the immediate future and must be confirmed correct or incorrect immediately, to train and see how full of bullshit and fantasies you are with your remote viewing. Otherwise it's what gypsies do or television astrologers , so to further refine what a correctly seen event or concept is. It must be something part of your regular life, happening immediately. not something once in a blue moon like sex with your wife.

Rudolf Steiner -> Erkenntnisse der höheren Welten.

I always feel that such predictions determine my future, taking away my freedom to act

Don't worry, you are taking away your freedom to act, yourself with this philosophy.

Just because you have seen something happening doesn't mean it must. It's still in the future. You can change it, with no ill effects, because you have seen it. Good or bad. Be a cause, not an effect. (Corpus Hermeticum) did so myself many times.

"When I throw this ball now the other dog will attack mine, and I will get bitten too (but when I do regardless I know I will get closer to my goal)". So I threw the ball, events unfolded, I got bitten and later to the ER.

Or "If I say this now it will lead to argument and break up with this person". And don't say anything despite being in an argument and being deadset on saying the next sentence.

Or "If I say this now to HoldAll he will ban me from this site" (this was due to happen in april btw)

And now I can tell you that fate is something you can change or make yourself. Even down to the most ridiculous trivial things.

 

[HoldAll]

Or "If I say this now to HoldAll he will ban me from this site" (this was due to happen in april btw)

Lol, I can't ban anyone, I can only hand out warnings and probation in the Library section.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

Which Yi Jing/I Ching translation do you use? I started out with Richard Wilhelm and was inundated with the inanity of it all. Legge, by contrast, actually is helpful. Other folks have the converse experience. In any case, the version I use actually kicks out pretty straightforward answers, insofar as "Do X" or "Bad idea" is concerned. Whether I act on the advice and how, well that's what a lot of old timey literature is, innit? The protagonist checking the oracles for wiggle room.

I like the Richard Wilhelm translation exactly because it's so diffuse because it gives me more interpretative leeway.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

"When I throw this ball now the other dog will attack mine, and I will get bitten too (but when I do regardless I know I will get closer to my goal)". So I threw the ball, events unfolded, I got bitten and later to the ER.

But that would be prescience, not divination because you didn't consult an orace for this event. Prescience and premonitions would be another fascinating topic for discussion... can prescience learned and trained? I know next to nothing about this faculty.

 

[Xenophon]

Lol, I can't ban anyone, I can only hand out warnings and probation in the Library section.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

I like the Richard Wilhelm translation exactly because it's so diffuse because it gives me more interpretative leeway.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

But that would be prescience, not divination because you didn't consult an orace for this event. Prescience and premonitions would be another fascinating topic for discussion... can prescience learned and trained? I know next to nothing about this faculty.

Like I hinted: different translations provoke different reactions. I recall Miguel Serrano taking Wilhelm's translation and comments to task for "Christian moralizing" that I have been unable to ferret out. (But Serrano often went off half-cocked. He once stopped speaking to an author because the latter's historical novel contained "fictitious" dialogue by historical figures.)

 

[pixel_fortune]

Etc. 90% of queries are in the immediate future and must be confirmed correct or incorrect immediately, to train and see how full of bullshit and fantasies you are

This makes complete sense in terms of training and testing, but at some point you actually have to use it for a 'real' question, and that's where I'm stuck - I can't think of anything where it really matters much.

Once you've established a baseline level of accuracy (and assuming lottery numbers still not possible), what questions do you ask? I still can't really think of any that would help me and and lead to behaviour change, rather than just being an idle whim or for the fun of guessing stuff right.

I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any, hence the thread

(Acknowledging the "where's my lost item" Q is useful/actionable)

 

[Shaman]

For example if you want to locate a lost item in your room.. ask first "Is the item in the room?", "Is the item on the right side or left side of the room?", "Is the item under my bed?" etc till you find. Keep enquiring like this by asking about stuff that leads you to what you want.

 

[HoldAll]

If the sole object of a given divinatory exercise is to develop one's intuition and one's interpretive faculties, then another option would be asking for advice. Say you don't know where to go on your holiday. The I Ging is full of nature images, so that might give you easy clues. Other times it's more subtle, giving you a certain feeling that you associate with a movie you saw once that was shot in city X... or you might get the 'unluckiest' hexagram of all, No. 23 Po, Splitting Apart: "It does not further one to go anywhere." Crap. So it's a vacation on the couch at home for you. The I Ging is always good for abrupt surprises. Most of the it sounds like a boring absent-minded old uncle, and then suddenly "Wham!". From what I gather divination can be like that, too, most of the time pretty equivocal and non-committal and then suddenly so straightforward that it's almost frightening.

 

[pixel_fortune]

For example if you want to locate a lost item in your room.. ask first "Is the item in the room?", "Is the item on the right side or left side of the room?", "Is the item under my bed?" etc till you find. Keep enquiring like this by asking about stuff that leads you to what you want.

Thank you! I've tried this (though with no success so far). It's the only potential useful 'predictive' divination I can think of. The question I'm trying to ask is, "what predictive divination questions do you ask, that actually would lead to behaviour change?" Because that's my issue, i can't think of any. I wanted to try this type of divination., but now I go to try it, I can't see the point of it.

It actually doesn't sound like anyone else has any good questions either! (@HoldAll not to dismiss yours, I think it's a good one for skill-building because it's something you can take action on, but I mean, once you're trained up, what is that skill FOR?)

I've seen bloggers post eg "what's going to happen on TV Show? Which characters will die?" but that's another example of whim/training-based, it's not something you'd actually care about knowing the answer

So maybe this simply isn't a skill used by, idk, sensible people.

(Obviously the world is FULL of people who want predictive divination, but they always seem to be bad questions. "Will X ask me to marry him?" ASK HIM TO MARRY YOU IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.)

Are there no good uses for predictive divination, other than lost items?

 

[HoldAll]

Thank you! I've tried this (though with no success so far). It's the only potential useful 'predictive' divination I can think of. The question I'm trying to ask is, "what predictive divination questions do you ask, that actually would lead to behaviour change?" Because that's my issue, i can't think of any. I wanted to try this type of divination., but now I go to try it, I can't see the point of it.

It actually doesn't sound like anyone else has any good questions either! (@HoldAll not to dismiss yours, I think it's a good one for skill-building because it's something you can take action on, but I mean, once you're trained up, what is that skill FOR?)

I've seen bloggers post eg "what's going to happen on TV Show? Which characters will die?" but that's another example of whim/training-based, it's not something you'd actually care about knowing the answer

So maybe this simply isn't a skill used by, idk, sensible people.

(Obviously the world is FULL of people who want predictive divination, but they always seem to be bad questions. "Will X ask me to marry him?" ASK HIM TO MARRY YOU IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.)

Are there no good uses for predictive divination, other than lost items?

You could e.g. ask how the weather will be two weeks from now in case you have something planned that's weather-dependent; it's not such a trivial question therefore but at the same time it wouldn't be a major desaster if you got it wrong. Just an idea.

Another idea would be to divine for a change of personal circumstances you would be forced to implement of necessity in order to adapt to events in the future which could be more easily managed if you started to modify your behaviour right away; for example you would be better prepared to cope with a predicted financial crisis if you had savings, which in turn would influence your current spending behaviour. However, if your oracle says that everything will stay the same, no modification of behaviour will take place, so the mere act of divination alone won't change anything.

To mitigate your fear of divination outcomes, you could specifically ask for your financial future e.g. instead of a general "Will anything serious happen to me?" because that could encompass everything, including scary events. Or "How will my friendship with X develop?", with X being not so important that a loss of friendship would traumatise you; alright, alright, that probably wouldn't involve a change of behaviour, too.

I myself am rather pessimistic about my own capacity for self-transformation because I have only ever changed in the past when circumstances compelled me to, which is why I suggested anticipating future forced adaptations that suggest behavioural modifications in the present.

 

[Shaman]

@pixel_fortune Sorry I have a hard time coming up with such questions.. but keep asking am sure someone will respond with a sufficient answer.

 

[pixel_fortune]

@pixel_fortune Sorry I have a hard time coming up with such questions.. but keep asking am sure someone will respond with a sufficient answer.

No that is sincerely useful information! the fact that no one has been like "well i ask xyz all the time" like it's simple and obvious, means that kind of divination probably just ISN'T used much by magicians - it's not something I'm failing to see

I myself am rather pessimistic about my own capacity for self-transformation because I have only ever changed in the past when circumstances compelled me to

This line from Elizabeth Gilbert has always resonated with me: "I've never seen any life transformation that didn't begin with the person in question finally getting tired of their own bullshit"

Those are some really good suggestions, thank you - the midpoint

 

[Xenophon]

Thank you! I've tried this (though with no success so far). It's the only potential useful 'predictive' divination I can think of. The question I'm trying to ask is, "what predictive divination questions do you ask, that actually would lead to behaviour change?" Because that's my issue, i can't think of any. I wanted to try this type of divination., but now I go to try it, I can't see the point of it.

It actually doesn't sound like anyone else has any good questions either! (@HoldAll not to dismiss yours, I think it's a good one for skill-building because it's something you can take action on, but I mean, once you're trained up, what is that skill FOR?)

I've seen bloggers post eg "what's going to happen on TV Show? Which characters will die?" but that's another example of whim/training-based, it's not something you'd actually care about knowing the answer

So maybe this simply isn't a skill used by, idk, sensible people.

(Obviously the world is FULL of people who want predictive divination, but they always seem to be bad questions. "Will X ask me to marry him?" ASK HIM TO MARRY YOU IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.)

Are there no good uses for predictive divination, other than lost items?

"Is May a good month for launching my darkest of dark ops to unleash the Finmanchta on humanity, open the way to the Otherness, and restore Lord Rasalom to his Imperium?" Seriously, I use divination for timing of magickal workings pretty often.

 

[Mars]

This makes complete sense in terms of training and testing, but at some point you actually have to use it for a 'real' question, and that's where I'm stuck - I can't think of anything where it really matters much.

Once you've established a baseline level of accuracy (and assuming lottery numbers still not possible), what questions do you ask? I still can't really think of any that would help me and and lead to behaviour change, rather than just being an idle whim or for the fun of guessing stuff right.

I'm sure there are some, I just can't think of any, hence the thread

(Acknowledging the "where's my lost item" Q is useful/actionable)

See its not training, or warm up until you "ask the questions that count". Every question counts and every single one is important. Finding a lost remote which you can buy for 5€ from amazon must have the same meaning to you as getting all lottery numbers right on a ticket winning you 25 Million €.

You must detach yourself completely from the fruits Of your success.

You should not care if you are prompted to find a 4 year old girl with type 2 diabetes thats lost in the woods for 12 hours already, her parents crying, and distrought, sobbing before you and the police saying she will starve in a few hours or freeze to death, or if its a tool you need right now to fix that partial lose screw on your pc cover thats bothering you a bit that you can do without anyway.

It is the same question. It is the same result. The underlying principle simply "does not care" what the implications of it are. It can not care, otherwise it wouldn't work. You will only see what you want to see otherwise.

In practice, everything is a target in an envelope. Envelope #487zxJ - Target
And you will accurately describe both the little girl and the hex screwdrive location and status

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I like some of the suggestions here.
As far as predictive dives nation goes, I would opt for IChing, Geomancy, or Horary Astrology.
I saw a very grim future if Ukraine did not win their war, through Geomancy.
I would say divine through whatever method you choose, but understand each method well that you use.
Tarot is a bit harder due today the number of decks out there, meaningless symbols on many, and the grand variety of both spreads and interpretations.
Geomancy or Horary Astrology would be my picks, though I know neither very well.
As far as questions to ask:
Ritual outcomes.
Behavior of others in their own relationships.
Behavior of the weather in some unconnected area.
Where you will lose the next item you will lose.
Why certain people do not change in some aspect (speaking of aspects, astrology would be useful here).
Predictions of n outcomes of reality show stars you watch.
If your favorite bands will release a new album or come to town.