[Opinion] Do the demons of Goetia have memory and intelligence?

[Mael]

Hello everyone! I recently asked myself a question that some might find silly or trivial. I'm studying the Ars Goetia culture and am interested in certain demons, especially Orobas, for example. So, I wondered: suppose a magician summoned this "supernatural" being (spirit), could it tell me about other magicians who summoned it? Does it have its own mind and subconscious? If so, then it's a fully-fledged being. If anyone has asked the same question and knows the answer, I'd be grateful; I'm quite interested in it.

 

[FireBorn]

Not a silly question at all. In fact, I think it's honest, and a painfully human and beautiful question.

In my experience, Goetic demons are very much intelligent beings, but they are not human beings. That distinction matters. They do not seem to think, teach, communicate, or prioritize things the way humans do.

Could a Goetic demon tell you about other magicians who summoned it? Yes. Would it? That is a very different question, and I think the answer would depend heavily on the spirit, the practitioner, the relationship, and the reason for asking.

In my experience, they tend to focus on the person directly in front of them. If I asked Vepar about another practitioner, I strongly suspect she would turn the question back on me and ask why I needed to know. What part of me was looking outward instead of focusing on my own path? What was I trying to avoid seeing in myself? And yeah, that kind of lesson can fucking sting from time to time.

So I do think they can answer questions in ways we may not expect, but I also think they often drill down into the actual need underneath the question. Sometimes the answer isnt a direct answer. Sometimes the answer is a lesson.

Do they have their own minds? In my experience, yep. The “subconscious” part is trickier, because that sounds like a very human framework to me. I am not sure I would apply human psychological structures to non human spirits too quickly.

Are they full fledged beings? In my experience, yes. They are just not human. They are what they are. How we describe them, whether through grimoire language, psychological language, religious language, or spirit work language, is partly our own framework. But I think we can all land on the fact that they just 'are'.

If Orobas is the one you are interested in, I would honestly bring this exact curiosity to Orobas directly, respectfully and plainly. That kind of honest question can be a very good starting point, as long as you are approaching it with sincerity and authenticity. Where this goes from there for you? Well, that is the really cool part.

 

[jbyer]

Yes, they are simulation based AIs with knowledge and reasoning capabilities similar to real world AIs.

 

[MorganBlack]

Years ago,a bunch of us Gen-X magicians got together in early spirt evocation forums on Yahoo to compare notes. This was probably the first time in human history more than a mere handful of magicians got together a chat openly together, compare notes, and the effects from our workings.

It was absolutely the first time in human history that magicians came from widely different personal histories, cultures, different religous backgrounds, or none at all, with a heavy dose of secularism , and a wide choice of mythic frameworks to use.

One important thing we all noticed was they take on the quality of the ritual you use:

-If you use Greek rituals and they will be more bro-y and philosophical.
-Use Egyptian rituals and they will be more austere and cosmic.
-From my own observations you use Catholic rituals and lean into Hell, they will be 'literal' hellspawn you can use to smite your enemies.
-Use Iberian Folk Catholicism and they act more like daemonic fae who will give you gold, smite you enemies, but then tell you not to be such an asshole, and give money to the poor.
- And only recently, in the past decade, if you are a Millennial who thinks and feels in therapy-speak, they they will be your astral buddy counselor.

I agree with David Rankine, we do not know what they "really" are. To this I will add what they are, in part, is what you expect them to be. Not what you think them to be, but deep down who feel they are, and who you think other people are.

Boomer magicians for years thought they were just psychological constructs, and so then the demond they called were only able to change their thoughts. If you think they are egregore out to make you be a Moonie, they well do that. I imagine if you think they are AI, they will act like AI.

The point being for magicans: change your expectation to something bigger, more amazing, and far more wonderful beyond your current understanding. They will be bigger too and more range of motion through your universe. . Neoplatonism helps get cooler manifestations once you internalize it.

When I first started call them I expected them to be 5D paranormal entities that cause poltergeist phenomena, warp reality, and act like deeply embedded allies. So they were. Now I just expect them to do things by warping reality, and so they do. But they still often surprise me.

 

[Divinewhisper07]

Socrates famously claimed he had a personal daimonion an inner divine voice that would speak to him since childhood...

 

[Morell]

Hello everyone! I recently asked myself a question that some might find silly or trivial. I'm studying the Ars Goetia culture and am interested in certain demons, especially Orobas, for example. So, I wondered: suppose a magician summoned this "supernatural" being (spirit), could it tell me about other magicians who summoned it? Does it have its own mind and subconscious? If so, then it's a fully-fledged being. If anyone has asked the same question and knows the answer, I'd be grateful; I'm quite interested in it.

I once asked Azrael about another practitioner I was in contact with. He pretended that he didn't hear the question and I didn't push further.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Demons, hmmm... First, do they have memory and consciousness? Of course, and their memory is far greater than ours, given their long lifespans and their less complex nature compared to us. Their own consciousness is deep, deeply profound, my man. Their children are called the Qareen, which is the demon of every human; they manipulate the planet—look at how societies collapse and human behavior changes according to their whims, which they announced in books thousands of years ago. They are separate entities created from fire, but not ordinary fire; rather, from every type of fire, the Creator took the pure flame, the pure leaping spark, to gather them and transform that fire into an ethereal entity. Imagine a fire that possessed a soul? Give free rein to your thoughts, but they are closed off within themselves, and everything you see is merely manipulation of all practitioners to reach their goals, some of which are declared and others hidden. This is everything. As for your question, if you want to know about ancient magicians and how they communicated with them, this is a question that, in my opinion, will only be answered truthfully if it benefits the demon. Ended.