- Joined
- Aug 31, 2026
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Something's been nagging me for months and I'd rather have you lot tear into it than keep circling it alone.
The whole "ancient sacred frequency" thing 432, 528, "the tone the old ones used" always bugged me because nobody ever cites a line. So I flipped it around and asked the dull version of the question: do the actual magical texts say anything about how to sound? Turns out a couple do, and they're weirdly specific but about manner, never pitch.
Two I've been living inside (Preisendanz for the Greek, Betz where I could actually see the page):
Here's the part I actually want beaten up. I made audio reconstructions of these, but I forced myself to keep three things apart and label them: what the text documents (order, repetitions, the manner-words), what's reconstruction(koine phonology — iotacism, the ypsilon sitting between [y] and in the 4th c., I went ), and what's just my modern call (length, timbre, the human take I used for the bellow). The bellow I tag as a "candidate," and I measure its pitch only to prove I'm not smuggling in a sacred note that F0 is the singer's, not the papyrus's.
Where I'd genuinely love correction:
1. The "pop" (poppysmos). I won't commit it to one concrete click because I can't pin the mechanism lip-smack? bilabial? tongue? Anyone got a real argument?
2. The ypsilon [y]~ call for 4th-c. Egyptian koine am I flattening it?
3. The honest gap: I couldn't find a documented modern practice that actually performs these acoustically (Dieterich, Mead = textual reception, not performance). If you know one primary source ideally I'd love to close that hole.
I'm not dropping a link in here, that's not the point of the post. But I've got the transcriptions, the line-by-line collation against the Heidelberg facsimile and the labelled audio layers sitting somewhere so if any of it's useful to you or you fancy pulling it apart, just say and I'll pass it over.
Mostly I want the corrections. Have at it.
The whole "ancient sacred frequency" thing 432, 528, "the tone the old ones used" always bugged me because nobody ever cites a line. So I flipped it around and asked the dull version of the question: do the actual magical texts say anything about how to sound? Turns out a couple do, and they're weirdly specific but about manner, never pitch.
Two I've been living inside (Preisendanz for the Greek, Betz where I could actually see the page):
- The vowel bit in PGM V isn't a floating exercise it's the pronunciation of the vowel-name you call the god with, in the Sarapis oracle. Alpha open and wavelike, omicron with the lips drawn in, epsilon "like a baboon," ypsilon "like a shepherd," drawn out, the iao thrown to earth/air/heaven. Gesture, animal, direction. No note, no Hz that unit didn't even exist yet.
- PGM IV, the "Mithras Liturgy" (Dieterich's 1903 name, and his "real Mithraic rite" idea is mostly dead). The sounds aren't a block, they're strung through the ascent: inhale ×3, silence ×3 with a finger on the mouth, a long hiss then a pop, then the bellowings and the Greek keeps something translations flatten: one bellow "like a horn" (an adverb, i.e. how to push the sound, not "go grab a horn"), straining the flank; the next straining the belly "to stir the five senses" that last phrase is literally in the Greek.
Here's the part I actually want beaten up. I made audio reconstructions of these, but I forced myself to keep three things apart and label them: what the text documents (order, repetitions, the manner-words), what's reconstruction(koine phonology — iotacism, the ypsilon sitting between [y] and in the 4th c., I went ), and what's just my modern call (length, timbre, the human take I used for the bellow). The bellow I tag as a "candidate," and I measure its pitch only to prove I'm not smuggling in a sacred note that F0 is the singer's, not the papyrus's.
Where I'd genuinely love correction:
1. The "pop" (poppysmos). I won't commit it to one concrete click because I can't pin the mechanism lip-smack? bilabial? tongue? Anyone got a real argument?
2. The ypsilon [y]~ call for 4th-c. Egyptian koine am I flattening it?
3. The honest gap: I couldn't find a documented modern practice that actually performs these acoustically (Dieterich, Mead = textual reception, not performance). If you know one primary source ideally I'd love to close that hole.
I'm not dropping a link in here, that's not the point of the post. But I've got the transcriptions, the line-by-line collation against the Heidelberg facsimile and the labelled audio layers sitting somewhere so if any of it's useful to you or you fancy pulling it apart, just say and I'll pass it over.
Mostly I want the corrections. Have at it.