[Opinion] Do you believe the Warrens?

[OberonFromTheHills]

The Warrens, Ed and Lorraine Warren, were a duo of paranormal investigators from the USA. Ed was a self-taught demonologist, and Lorraine claimed to be a clairvoyant and medium. They founded the New England Society for Psychic Research in 1952 and became famous for investigating high-profile hauntings, including the Amityville Horror, the Perron family case (inspiring The Conjuring), and the Annabelle doll.

What is your opinion about them, as occultist you are ?!?

 

[Morell]

As not USA person I have limited resources on them. Certain groups of Christians praise them, while some people from USA told me that they caused a lot of trouble. Specifically that they thought every being to be a demon that has to be banished.
That included spirits that lived harmoniously with people who just wanted assurance from them. Honestly that claim is believable. Surely more than recent death of the Annabelle doll handler being caused by the possessed doll after single touch.

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[HoldAll]

There are about a dozen copies of "The Demonologist: The Extraordinary Career of Ed and Lorraine Warren" by a certain Gerald Brittle on annas-archive.org in case anybody is interested here.

 

[Faria]

I think they are a couple of frauds who are mostly ignorant of real demonology whether historical or practical.

 

[OberonFromTheHills]

I think they are a couple of frauds who are mostly ignorant of real demonology whether historical or practical.

Mte. Ed's knowlegde about the spirit world seems to come from.... The Exorcist

I truly believe they took advantage of the post The Exorcist paranoïa in the world to play with people's fear.

They are many cases when they run away cause the case wasn't interesting enough for them.

 

[Faria]

I truly believe they took advantage of the post The Exorcist paranoïa in the world to play with people's fear.

If I am being exceptionally generous, what they do resembles methods of folk-medicine that go back to ancient Babylon or earlier. A person has an unreasonable fear or some other creepy thing happens, it connects to some things that are shitty in their personal lives like deaths or abuse, and then the spirit worker identifies those things as a spirit, traps them in a doll, and banishes them with prayers. It's a formula as old as writing, at least.

But that is being overly generous. I agree with you, they are playing into the ignorance and superstition of a population that was cloud-seeded for it in the 1970s. They have not made a single noteworthy contribution to the lore of spirits or the esoteric. I consider them a couple of sleazy street preachers who happened to get some important and incredibly stupid/superstitious people in their corner.

 

[Audiolog Edu]

I think very similar to the post above me, I am in fact possesed by an entity and this lady on Reddit has helped me a bit, I have downloaded "The Exorcist Handbook" and that is the only book I have about real exorcisms, I liked their movies, but I notice something odd in them, they pretend that to banish "demons" you need Christs powers, so I think they are lame posers and America is big in Christianity, I explain this because Josephines exorcist manual explained to me that spirits older than Christianity cant be exorcised with a Christian method, like is useless to use a Christian method, also if the spirit/entity is from a Voodoo pantheon then is the same issue, the Christian exorcism wont free the person from the entity, I honestly belive more Josephine McCarthy and her book than the Warrens.

 

[Morell]

I think very similar to the post above me, I am in fact possesed by an entity and this lady on Reddit has helped me a bit, I have downloaded "The Exorcist Handbook" and that is the only book I have about real exorcisms, I liked their movies, but I notice something odd in them, they pretend that to banish "demons" you need Christs powers, so I think they are lame posers and America is big in Christianity, I explain this because Josephines exorcist manual explained to me that spirits older than Christianity cant be exorcised with a Christian method, like is useless to use a Christian method, also if the spirit/entity is from a Voodoo pantheon then is the same issue, the Christian exorcism wont free the person from the entity, I honestly belive more Josephine McCarthy and her book than the Warrens.

Hmmm, I might take a look at that exorcism book, it sounds interesting. It could be good read, though truth be told, when I read in your comment about more ancient beings being impossible to banish using Christian ways of exorcism, I've read that in horror stories of Lovecraft or somewhere related to them. Really that does sound rather as stuff of horor stories to me rather than rality.

...At least when thinking about my experience, I had to defend against malevolent spirits, but it never mattered what spiritual tradition they were from, rather my tradition mattered. Kind of in concept "my house, my rules." I didn't even bothered with identyfying them as was done in Warens movies. That way of thinking actualy needlesly limits you as a spellcaster, or exorcist. I think that it gives too much power to the "demon." I would also think that if name of Jesus is so powerful, nothing else should matter to Christian exorcist.

That one exorcism I've done on the cabin I was at alone, I knew nothing about the spirit, just that it kept attacking my sleep. I simply called to the god I woship and with help of his power I kicked the bastart out, it spend the rest of the night knocking on the window, trying to get my attention and perhaps being invited back in, but when I sleep, I'm not intersted, though I still noticed it. But it couldn't just get back on it's own. I guess that there might be something true about that old legend that vampires cannot enter the house they are not invited/allowed to enter, perhaps it works for more spirits...

 

[Audiolog Edu]

Hmmm, I might take a look at that exorcism book, it sounds interesting. It could be good read, though truth be told, when I read in your comment about more ancient beings being impossible to banish using Christian ways of exorcism, I've read that in horror stories of Lovecraft or somewhere related to them. Really that does sound rather as stuff of horor stories to me rather than rality.

...At least when thinking about my experience, I had to defend against malevolent spirits, but it never mattered what spiritual tradition they were from, rather my tradition mattered. Kind of in concept "my house, my rules." I didn't even bothered with identyfying them as was done in Warens movies. That way of thinking actualy needlesly limits you as a spellcaster, or exorcist. I think that it gives too much power to the "demon." I would also think that if name of Jesus is so powerful, nothing else should matter to Christian exorcist.

That one exorcism I've done on the cabin I was at alone, I knew nothing about the spirit, just that it kept attacking my sleep. I simply called to the god I woship and with help of his power I kicked the bastart out, it spend the rest of the night knocking on the window, trying to get my attention and perhaps being invited back in, but when I sleep, I'm not intersted, though I still noticed it. But it couldn't just get back on it's own. I guess that there might be something true about that old legend that vampires cannot enter the house they are not invited/allowed to enter, perhaps it works for more spirits...

Interesting, Joshephine McCarthy is who wrote the book I mentioned and she has being an Exorcist for a long long time of her Magical carreer, she trully knows a lot of stuff, I have not finished the book tho, I was detoxing from cannabis, tobacco and alcohol addiction when I got the book, now I am stronger in mind and body, so I might give it a try, as you said last, like spirits are like vampires, they should be invited, I got tricked and drank a magic mushroom beverage, that made me possesed, I saw this from David Griffins wife in their Golden Dawn Youtube channel, she is a witch and explained that, how Voodoo you have to drink something, to invite the spirit in.

 

[Morell]

Interesting, Joshephine McCarthy is who wrote the book I mentioned and she has being an Exorcist for a long long time of her Magical carreer, she trully knows a lot of stuff, I have not finished the book tho, I was detoxing from cannabis, tobacco and alcohol addiction when I got the book, now I am stronger in mind and body, so I might give it a try, as you said last, like spirits are like vampires, they should be invited, I got tricked and drank a magic mushroom beverage, that made me possesed, I saw this from David Griffins wife in their Golden Dawn Youtube channel, she is a witch and explained that, how Voodoo you have to drink something, to invite the spirit in.

Warrens apparently had years of practice too. They also made a career.

Ah well, I think I should put here my theory on these beings. I think that there are two kinds of "demons" that can take control of your mind: external ones and internal ones.

External demons are what people believe coming and controlling them. It is independent being that comes and uses it's strength to overcome your mind. Simply said it has limited strength and cannot hold you for whatsoever long, if this "demon" would overdo it, it can damage itself or worse. After doing that this "demon" needs to regain its strength or recharge its energy. And I believe that they are relatively easy to banish or exorcise, because they are from outside, so you just have to kick them out again.

Internal demons are completely different issue. They are not from outside, but they are formed within you, they are fragments of your mind/spirit/soul, whatever, but they are nothing alien, they are part of you, they are you. That is why these "demons" can keep human captive for very long periods of time, because they do not keep any spell of dominance or anything. They just control the body that unironicaly belongs to them. Cannot be banished out from the body without damage, even severe damage or even death, especially if they become strong and own bigger part of your sou. These have to be "banished" back in as they come from within, not without. They have to be reintegrated. Psychologic work and soul healing and all that.

 

[Audiolog Edu]

Warrens apparently had years of practice too. They also made a career.

Ah well, I think I should put here my theory on these beings. I think that there are two kinds of "demons" that can take control of your mind: external ones and internal ones.

External demons are what people believe coming and controlling them. It is independent being that comes and uses it's strength to overcome your mind. Simply said it has limited strength and cannot hold you for whatsoever long, if this "demon" would overdo it, it can damage itself or worse. After doing that this "demon" needs to regain its strength or recharge its energy. And I believe that they are relatively easy to banish or exorcise, because they are from outside, so you just have to kick them out again.

Internal demons are completely different issue. They are not from outside, but they are formed within you, they are fragments of your mind/spirit/soul, whatever, but they are nothing alien, they are part of you, they are you. That is why these "demons" can keep human captive for very long periods of time, because they do not keep any spell of dominance or anything. They just control the body that unironicaly belongs to them. Cannot be banished out from the body without damage, even severe damage or even death, especially if they become strong and own bigger part of your sou. These have to be "banished" back in as they come from within, not without. They have to be reintegrated. Psychologic work and soul healing and all that.

Thanks I think, I am very sure I got attacked by mexican witches or mexican black religions like Palo Mayombe, which are quite common here, this entity can move my body without my consent, and even inflict pain on me but he rather just be annoying, listening to my toughts and bothering me, also Ive seen around my place a flying orb of white light, it can appear or disappear, that one did not bother me, but it gets close and manifest when ever I am reading magick books, I also went with one lady that supposedly could exorcise this spirit and she was a hoax, so I am looking how to remove this entity.

 

[stalkinghyena]

The Warrens, Ed and Lorraine Warren, were a duo of paranormal investigators from the USA. Ed was a self-taught demonologist, and Lorraine claimed to be a clairvoyant and medium. They founded the New England Society for Psychic Research in 1952 and became famous for investigating high-profile hauntings, including the Amityville Horror, the Perron family case (inspiring The Conjuring), and the Annabelle doll.

What is your opinion about them, as occultist you are ?!?

When I was a little kid, my Dad used to read me and my brother bedtime stories. Somehow these evolved in content from The Little Engine That Could, Sammy the Seal and Alice in Wonderland to Ed and Lorraine Warren books. This evolution also took place against the backdrop of family movie favorites such as the original The Amityville Horror, its sequels and The Exorcist + sequels.

My memories of the tales are vague, but my impression as a kid was this stuff was all true, though in later life I think of it all in a more comical sense. The driving dogmas of demonology that I grew up with just don't stack up to my experiences, though sometimes I think they could, especially during hail storms and odd events. It's just the absence of obvious special effects, really. If I recall Ed's stories correctly, there have never been whirling malevolent tornadoes in my office, nor have street lights gone with precise motion timing during demonic presences and harried pursuits. I have never shut my eyes against a Horror only to find myself seeing it clearly as if my eyes were open. Actually, that last part might be false, though I consider such instances to be entertaining in the manner of cultivating relationships and developing and enduring character in the face of the Unknown.

I was suspicious of Raggedy Anne dolls well before my bedtime stories took eldritch turns, but I also had apprehensions regarding Cabbage Patch Kids as potentially demoniacal. I feel strongly that the introduction of The Garbage Pail Kids cards was an antidote for some childhood anxieties.

I have dreamed, in the manner of a wish, of visiting their museum of haunted objects. My Dad spoke of the place like one might speak of Chernobyl. Still, he would have taken me there for the weekend if it was close enough.

On a sudden turn of thought, I thought the Annabelle movie was stupid. I looked for a pic of the original locked in a case. Then after reflecting on soaking in some Bertrieaux, I wonder if I could not apply some creative occultism here if I could get one of those dolls.

 

[Zeelu]

I enjoyed the movies a lot. I do think the Warrens had an act that made them a lot of money. However, with so many people buying into the Annabelle thing its possible its become or in the process of becoming an egregore. The owner suddenly dying after putting Annabellle on tour recently was an interesting development. I love the truth or demon's podcasts about the warrens and annabelle its really well researched.

 

[FireBorn]

I have mixed feelings about the Warrens. On one hand, they brought paranormal investigation into the mainstream when it was still fringe. On the other hand… they absolutely capitalized on it.

I get that magick and spirit contact are subjective by nature, but for me, the subjectivity hits a wall once it's being sold for fear, fame, and profit. I think that’s where discernment becomes crucial.

Let’s be real: fear sells, especially to a Christians raised on demons as boogeymen. Make it scary, make it Catholic, and you’ve got a hit. I’m not saying their experiences were fabricated, but I do believe the dramatization was intentional (drama is sexy). They had every incentive to exaggerate, and they worked closely with Hollywood. That alone skews things for me.

Even though I work with spirits, including those classified as “demons” I still try to rule out the mundane first and foremost. I don’t believe something just because it’s spooky or unexplained. In fact, I think skepticism is a form of spiritual integrity. The Warrens leaned hard into the sensational. That’s where I start pulling back.