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Does anyone else think a lot of magick has been co-opted by the white-supremacist capitalist patriarchy?
- Thread starter momomo
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It's just you.
Reality is literally the opposite, lots of magick has been co-opted by far left marxists.
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I see a lot more leftist and sometimes even outright communist or anti-fascist groups that masquerade as being about the occult but really only care about politics and magic comes second.
I'm sure there are some neonazi and similar right wing groups that pretend to care about magic, but I usually see them resort more to inane conspiracy theories and how our government covers it all up. Most consider themselves Christian in some form, so I doubt they look upon people who claim they can perform magic favorably.
I'm sure there are some neonazi and similar right wing groups that pretend to care about magic, but I usually see them resort more to inane conspiracy theories and how our government covers it all up. Most consider themselves Christian in some form, so I doubt they look upon people who claim they can perform magic favorably.
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The downfall of Jordan Peterson illustrates well what happens when white supremist capitalist patriarchy tries artifice to co-opt the occult to prevent progress away from hierarchies and Aristotelian concepts.
It's not like spirits can't tell a quack from a squawk.
It's not like spirits can't tell a quack from a squawk.
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Well, the most religious of each political extreme put their religion over any other belief, including magick, but there's a good portion of each as well which study and practice magick of all flavours.
Also there are those who are with a foot in and another out, which come from a very religious background but are curious about magick and the occult (or viceversa maybe) but likely not the majority. Even if certain religious practice are magickal, their devotees would never admit that, unless it isn't taboo or an active part of worship.
Now I know lefties tend towards secularism and atheism but it isn't unlikely that conservatives also are like this, and even when ideologies look very different on paper, the behavior of extremists is very similar no matter their reasons for acting like this, their ideology or faith, they are mostly dangerous in some form or a have very unworked unconscious mind.
And of course, Politics is a form of Magick. It puts people under a spell, the idea that they have to give their power away to someone who can't use it effectively to fix what needs to be fixed, the idea that you can delegate your responsabilities to someone else. Even mages and witches have fallen under it.
Also there are those who are with a foot in and another out, which come from a very religious background but are curious about magick and the occult (or viceversa maybe) but likely not the majority. Even if certain religious practice are magickal, their devotees would never admit that, unless it isn't taboo or an active part of worship.
Now I know lefties tend towards secularism and atheism but it isn't unlikely that conservatives also are like this, and even when ideologies look very different on paper, the behavior of extremists is very similar no matter their reasons for acting like this, their ideology or faith, they are mostly dangerous in some form or a have very unworked unconscious mind.
And of course, Politics is a form of Magick. It puts people under a spell, the idea that they have to give their power away to someone who can't use it effectively to fix what needs to be fixed, the idea that you can delegate your responsabilities to someone else. Even mages and witches have fallen under it.
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It's funny that the op and title didn't mention left and right political distinction associated with the behavior but it's how the post was mostly taken and answered with defensive avoidance fallacies to boot.
OP has picked up on an undercurrent.
OP has picked up on an undercurrent.
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We've had these incidents in the Forum Library where somebody posted links to two collections with more than 1,500 books in total, everything from alchemy to zen. Everyone was grateful until somebody spotted some racist and white-supremacist tracts among them. We asked the member to remove them and that was that. When I was still posting books and went hunting for book caches, I noticed that most conspiracy-nut collections often featured right-wing extremist and anti-semitic stuff as well, for example the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or Hitler's Mein Kampf. Did those collectors read all that crap out of academic interest or were they right-wing extremists? No idea. Then there was this guy who posted some Joy of Satan pamphlets which also contained neonazi stuff. As far as I remember, we took most them down, they were nothing but pop Satanist propaganda anyway.
It should be borne in mind that different countries handle the right to freedom of speech differently and that the US model is by no means universal. Disseminating neonazi propaganda, displaying nazi insignia, tattoos or the Hitler salute in public, denying the Holocaust, etc. can get you to prison in some EU countries for historical reasons; rare debates there revolve around the modalities of the statutes' application, freedom of speech never comes into it. These countries have been 'anti-fascist' since 1945, not always consistently so right after the war but formally nevertheless, so these JoS guys should better be careful where they show their swastika tats on their European holidays or they'll be arrested within minutes.
As for 'capitalist'… I see it as the prevalent state of affairs, not as a definite movement with a clearcut ideology. From what I've gathered from friends who had escaped from former Eastern Bloc countries, the Communist Parties there thought that occultism benefitted capitalism because it prevented workers from developing class awareness and rising up against their oppressors, and consequently banned every expression of it. I think they were mistaken, from what I gather from Forum discussions, many members are highly political, just not always in the way those post-war Communist Parties naively expected.
Scholars in the academic world, on the other hand, are woke to the extreme and appear to like nothing better than calling each other some kind of '-ist' or another and accusing each other of various '-isms' once they start argueing (I'm reading mostly scholarly books right now in the hope of finding more reliable information than in purely esoteric tomes); I frequently even have to look up some those '-isms' to understand what they're bickering about.
'Patriarchy': Many witches call themselves feminists, and I don't think I've ever read a modern male occult author pining for the old days where women knew their place (plenty of such authors in the past though!). In line with old-school Communist theory and second-wave feminists like , I guess you could call all occult books specifically directed at women and distracting them from their fight against the patriarchy 'fascist' (or some other kind of '-ist'); seen from this black-and-white perspective, all of occultism is a tool of the patriarchy to subjugate women. Fortunately, those days of top-down feminism are long past, and you have to decide for yourself if the contents of a book violates your personal value code.
I guess you could call even this reply 'paternalistic'. I can't help it, I'm a guy, and in the same way many writers probably 'serve the capitalist patriarchy' without even noticing; I don't think they're doing it on purpose though.
It should be borne in mind that different countries handle the right to freedom of speech differently and that the US model is by no means universal. Disseminating neonazi propaganda, displaying nazi insignia, tattoos or the Hitler salute in public, denying the Holocaust, etc. can get you to prison in some EU countries for historical reasons; rare debates there revolve around the modalities of the statutes' application, freedom of speech never comes into it. These countries have been 'anti-fascist' since 1945, not always consistently so right after the war but formally nevertheless, so these JoS guys should better be careful where they show their swastika tats on their European holidays or they'll be arrested within minutes.
As for 'capitalist'… I see it as the prevalent state of affairs, not as a definite movement with a clearcut ideology. From what I've gathered from friends who had escaped from former Eastern Bloc countries, the Communist Parties there thought that occultism benefitted capitalism because it prevented workers from developing class awareness and rising up against their oppressors, and consequently banned every expression of it. I think they were mistaken, from what I gather from Forum discussions, many members are highly political, just not always in the way those post-war Communist Parties naively expected.
Scholars in the academic world, on the other hand, are woke to the extreme and appear to like nothing better than calling each other some kind of '-ist' or another and accusing each other of various '-isms' once they start argueing (I'm reading mostly scholarly books right now in the hope of finding more reliable information than in purely esoteric tomes); I frequently even have to look up some those '-isms' to understand what they're bickering about.
'Patriarchy': Many witches call themselves feminists, and I don't think I've ever read a modern male occult author pining for the old days where women knew their place (plenty of such authors in the past though!). In line with old-school Communist theory and second-wave feminists like , I guess you could call all occult books specifically directed at women and distracting them from their fight against the patriarchy 'fascist' (or some other kind of '-ist'); seen from this black-and-white perspective, all of occultism is a tool of the patriarchy to subjugate women. Fortunately, those days of top-down feminism are long past, and you have to decide for yourself if the contents of a book violates your personal value code.
I guess you could call even this reply 'paternalistic'. I can't help it, I'm a guy, and in the same way many writers probably 'serve the capitalist patriarchy' without even noticing; I don't think they're doing it on purpose though.