Experience with the golden dawn system

[Parallax]

I have decided to self initiate into the Cicero books golden dawn system.
I am curious to know other people experiences in the hermetic order of the golden dawn currents and what they think of it.
I don’t particularly like the long time just to begin neophyte grade but I understand it’s need.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

I personally began running into issues with its qabbalistic system being too insular and self-referential. I spent 5 years doing Golden Dawn and began to feel very limited by the practice because of how self-referential it was. Exploring the source material that Mathers was working off of led me to dropping the system itself as I became convinced that a lot of its power came from egregoric properties (its a popular system and because so many people practice it it works the way it says it does). That's not to say it isn't useful to learn, there are tons of Golden Dawn techniques I still use today, but I grew to a point where I couldn't reconcile my extra-curricular experiments and studies with the system and that was what led to me abandoning its framework. At some point it stopped feeling like I was learning magic and growing as a magician and turned into a checklist of things I had to do to level up, whereas the stuff that I was studying and practicing outside of Golden Dawn hegemony was pushing me into uncharted territory.

 

[Adelina]

Well, Mathers was known for maliciously damaging old manuscripts and censoring them. Also Golden Dawn is known for mixing unmixable, and making up for the sake of pathos. So Golden Dawn can be described as broken telephone, very broken.

Personally I was acquainted with Golden Dawn system (as well as with its descendants like OTO, TOTO, etc.) relatively late during my learning the occult, and I already saw it as jumbled mess with bad odour.

If you are interested in Cabbala, there are now tons of great books on the subject, together with its Ceremonial Magic subsystem. If you are interested in Alchemy, there are tons of great books on the subject, etc. Gone is informational vacuum which was prevalent during the time of Golden Dawn and similar concoctions.

 

[Parallax]

I personally began running into issues with its qabbalistic system being too insular and self-referential. I spent 5 years doing Golden Dawn and began to feel very limited by the practice because of how self-referential it was. Exploring the source material that Mathers was working off of led me to dropping the system itself as I became convinced that a lot of its power came from egregoric properties (its a popular system and because so many people practice it it works the way it says it does). That's not to say it isn't useful to learn, there are tons of Golden Dawn techniques I still use today, but I grew to a point where I couldn't reconcile my extra-curricular experiments and studies with the system and that was what led to me abandoning its framework. At some point it stopped feeling like I was learning magic and growing as a magician and turned into a checklist of things I had to do to level up, whereas the stuff that I was studying and practicing outside of Golden Dawn hegemony was pushing me into uncharted territory.

That makes senses being self contained as it originates from a closed society. As for the idea it works because of being an egregoric construct, isn’t that sorta the nature of magical currents. The more people engage with it the more it is transformed by them and them it. Would it be inherently bad for a place to begin more structured work?

Well, Mathers was known for maliciously damaging old manuscripts and censoring them. Also Golden Dawn is known for mixing unmixable, and making up for the sake of pathos. So Golden Dawn can be described as broken telephone, very broken.

Personally I was acquainted with Golden Dawn system (as well as with its descendants like OTO, TOTO, etc.) relatively late during my learning the occult, and I already saw it as jumbled mess with bad odour.

If you are interested in Cabbala, there are now tons of great books on the subject, together with its Ceremonial Magic subsystem. If you are interested in Alchemy, there are tons of great books on the subject, etc. Gone is informational vacuum which was prevalent during the time of Golden Dawn and similar concoctions.

I am interested in more things but I always find myself being pulled in many directions and I think just focusing on one system with a wide variety of topics could be good.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

That makes senses being self contained as it originates from a closed society. As for the idea it works because of being an egregoric construct, isn’t that sorta the nature of magical currents. The more people engage with it the more it is transformed by them and them it. Would it be inherently bad for a place to begin more structured work?

I am interested in more things but I always find myself being pulled in many directions and I think just focusing on one system with a wide variety of topics could be good.

Yes I agree that's the entire power and also detriment of lodge magic. It has a lot of power because of egregoric properties but it is also limiting because of egregoric properties.

Even then, no I do not think its a bad place to start. You'll get a good magical foundation with Golden Dawn but you will probably hit a point in your path and praxis in which you outgrow systems in favor of independent practice. That's usually the threshold when you're learning magic from diety, spirits, and independent study.

 

[Kepler]

Their use of the tattva for coherent visions was my ingress into their current. I had a foundation of experience with psychic development and meditation from the Seth material beforehand. The Jane Roberts stuff was my one system to focus on early on.

After preparatory rituals of a Wiccan variety, I self-initiated*(not did the ritual alone) with Golden Dawn material from 777 and Mystical Qabalah via Migene Gonzalez-Wippler's Complete Book of Spells, Ceremonies and Magic. The Golden Dawn Tattva in the latter led to the former. (A short article to introduce Tattva if unfamiliar

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Since the temple formula for my initiation was the same I combined with a ceremony to evoke the Vision of the Holy Guardian Angel.
The celestial scale and nature was surprising as I expected something else and something more dramatic than what seemed like a gentle planetarium excursion.

Within a few years of following the GD current through to Crowley led my path to Linda MacFarlane of 93 Publishing and learning some things about Kenneth Grant et al..

That it's possible to currently design a Rose Cross along modern celestial understanding with established GD principles without having to completely overthrow it I think shows an underlying quality to reveal truth in the GD system that may extend much further back and continue far into the future.


*initiated in the sense of calling forth the Angels to announce my physical incarnation across to the cosmos. I mention this specifically as it seems, upon reflection, relevant to my experience of K&C.

 

[Parallax]

Yes I agree that's the entire power and also detriment of lodge magic. It has a lot of power because of egregoric properties but it is also limiting because of egregoric properties.

Even then, no I do not think its a bad place to start. You'll get a good magical foundation with Golden Dawn but you will probably hit a point in your path and praxis in which you outgrow systems in favor of independent practice. That's usually the threshold when you're learning magic from diety, spirits, and independent study.

Do you mean that once you hit working with spirits, etc that you grow out of the more rigid structure?
I am pursuing it mainly for better discipline, structure and such. I have had experience in channeling and such with qliphothic spirits but at the same time before pursuing deeper I have been led to believe by a spirit that balancing the light and darkness is key to not being consumed in entirety by the darkness.

Their use of the tattva for coherent visions was my ingress into their current. I had a foundation of experience with psychic development and meditation from the Seth material beforehand. The Jane Roberts stuff was my one system to focus on early on.

After preparatory rituals of a Wiccan variety, I self-initiated*(not did the ritual alone) with Golden Dawn material from 777 and Mystical Qabalah via Migene Gonzalez-Wippler's Complete Book of Spells, Ceremonies and Magic. The Golden Dawn Tattva in the latter led to the former. (A short article to introduce Tattva if unfamiliar

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

)

Since the temple formula for my initiation was the same I combined with a ceremony to evoke the Vision of the Holy Guardian Angel.
The celestial scale and nature was surprising as I expected something else and something more dramatic than what seemed like a gentle planetarium excursion.

Within a few years of following the GD current through to Crowley led my path to Linda MacFarlane of 93 Publishing and learning some things about Kenneth Grant et al..

That it's possible to currently design a Rose Cross along modern celestial understanding with established GD principles without having to completely overthrow it I think shows an underlying quality to reveal truth in the GD system that may extend much further back and continue far into the future.


*initiated in the sense of calling forth the Angels to announce my physical incarnation across to the cosmos. I mention this specifically as it seems, upon reflection, relevant to my experience of K&C.

That interesting.

I am currently doing the Cicero self initiation book preliminary probationer work, For the calling of the light technique I have had a unique experience. Gazing into the light at the center of the space, I have had visions of an entity which I will provide and that the light itself speaks to me on a level and intuitively gives me direction on what to do. Like it will collect dark energy in the space as a sphere and have me break it and concentrate the light in my hand to purify the energy, then it will swirl around and expand siphoning residual pollutant energy into itself before closing.
while I understand this light is connected to the egregore, is it a specific entity within the system that operates the ritual with the hierophant?
Unless, of course, I just need to discipline myself and this is a result of internal things manifesting.

https://imgur.com/id4puwI

The dragons were seen before it but I added them just because I guess

 

[Kepler]

Do you mean that once you hit working with spirits, etc that you grow out of the more rigid structure?
I am pursuing it mainly for better discipline, structure and such. I have had experience in channeling and such with qliphothic spirits but at the same time before pursuing deeper I have been led to believe by a spirit that balancing the light and darkness is key to not being consumed in entirety by the darkness.

That interesting.

I am currently doing the Cicero self initiation book preliminary probationer work, For the calling of the light technique I have had a unique experience. Gazing into the light at the center of the space, I have had visions of an entity which I will provide and that the light itself speaks to me on a level and intuitively gives me direction on what to do. Like it will collect dark energy in the space as a sphere and have me break it and concentrate the light in my hand to purify the energy, then it will swirl around and expand siphoning residual pollutant energy into itself before closing.
while I understand this light is connected to the egregore, is it a specific entity within the system that operates the ritual with the hierophant?
Unless, of course, I just need to discipline myself and this is a result of internal things manifesting.

https://imgur.com/id4puwI

The dragons were seen before it but I added them just because I guess

The tattvas can provide a means of discipline that will help you determine the answer to that question and others regarding the nature of visions.
The article mentions how they can be used to induce and clarified with devices like in Liber O.

The chapter on Spiritual Development from Crowley's Temple of Solomon describes an example of inner activity during ritual processes that are in the direction you're investigating:

I. The Aspirant affirms aloud his earnest prayer to obtain divine guidance; kneels at the West of the Altar in the position of the candidate in the “Enterer,” and at the same time astrally projects his consciousness to the East of the Altar, and turns, facing his body to the West, holding astrally his own left hand with his astral left; and raises his astral right hand holding the presentment of his Lotus Wand by the white portion thereof, and raised in the air erect.

J. Let the Aspirant now slowly recite an oration unto the Gods and unto the Higher Self (as that of the Second Adept in the entering of the vault), but as if with his astral consciousness; which is projected to the East of the Altar.

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[Amur]

Well I would just do the elements of the system, they are working. After that you have gotten everything you need and can move on to something else. The elements helped me alot. And yes do the LIRP in the morning and the LBRP in the evening for 6 months to ground properly. I started by jumping into the Fire element and invoking that and things got a bit crazy. I have a remorse that I didn't do LIRP in the morning for 6 months.

 

[Rasputin_618]

I personally began running into issues with its qabbalistic system being too insular and self-referential. I spent 5 years doing Golden Dawn and began to feel very limited by the practice because of how self-referential it was. Exploring the source material that Mathers was working off of led me to dropping the system itself as I became convinced that a lot of its power came from egregoric properties (its a popular system and because so many people practice it it works the way it says it does). That's not to say it isn't useful to learn, there are tons of Golden Dawn techniques I still use today, but I grew to a point where I couldn't reconcile my extra-curricular experiments and studies with the system and that was what led to me abandoning its framework. At some point it stopped feeling like I was learning magic and growing as a magician and turned into a checklist of things I had to do to level up, whereas the stuff that I was studying and practicing outside of Golden Dawn hegemony was pushing me into uncharted territory.

Sounds familiar. What were the new practices you got into? For me it was Daoist Neidan and sigil magick.