Freemasonry and The Occult

[Gurublue]

I have recently joined a Magick order and noticed that many of the members are Freemasons and some even very high ranking members. I.E 32nd degrees. I attended a ritual through my order at a major Freemason lodge in my city that we have relations with through some of our order members who are Masons, and noticed that aside from my order, that some Freemasons of that lodge also participated in the ritual event. My question is, is it common from your guys experience for Freemasons to be into the occult? What is the relation? Why do some people in the occult become Masons and Vice Versa?

 

[Morell]

is it common ... for Freemasons to be into the occult? What is the relation?

Freemansons, just like everyone else, are humans. So interest in occult is nothing weird. Occult attracts people from everywhere, even from religions that forbid it, like Abrahamic religions.I do not think that it is common, didn't hear about it much.

What is the relation?

They are humans, some of them just have the interest. Actually quite a number of Norse Pagans is actually not into magic. It is just personal interest. A lot (A LOT) of people claiming that they are Christians visit Church few times a year at best.

Why do some people in the occult become Masons and Vice Versa?

You'll have to ask them... It would be interesting to find out if there is some reason that is the same for a lot of them.

 

[FireBorn]

I am not a Mason, but my family history goes deep into the Masonic-occult stream.

If I’m remembering right, the founders of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were all Freemasons and involved in a Masonic Rosicrucian body. So there’s a pretty fat overlay between Freemasonry and certain occult orders. If I’ve botched a detail there, someone can correct me, but that’s my understanding without tearing through the actual history at 9am during my second cup of coffee.

You can see the same framework show up a lot with initiatory degrees, degree/grade ladder, symbolism, ritual in a lodge/temple setting, oaths, secrecy, officers, etc.

That doesn’t mean Freemasonry is “the occult” or a magickal order in itself. It’s its own thing. But the structure is very similar to what a lot of magickal orders later used, so people who are in one are going to recognize the feel of the other, and they wouldn’t be wrong to notice the parallels.

Why do some occultists become Masons? I think it depends on the type of occultist. It probably appeals more to the formal, ritual-heavy types than, say, Chaotes, Witches, etc. That’s just a guess from the outside.

In my family’s case, there was a very dark occult current that ran under the surface and used the Lodge as ready made scaffolding. The structure, secrecy, and respectability were already there, so it was a natural container for them hidden in plain sight. Not implying that’s what Masonry is in general, just saying that’s how my people used it successfully for generations.

There was a time when secrecy was basically mandatory for occultists if you wanted to survive socially or literally. Same with Freemasonry, secrecy was a massive part of the structure. Now that so much information is out in the open and the occult is being de-occulted, there’s less survival need for orders. A lot of people join lodges now for social reasons, networking, or family tradition, and a lot of magicians skip orders altogether. To each his/her own.

 

[Firetree]

I am not a Mason, but my family history goes deep into the Masonic-occult stream.

If I’m remembering right, the founders of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were all Freemasons and involved in a Masonic Rosicrucian body. So there’s a pretty fat overlay between Freemasonry and certain occult orders. If I’ve botched a detail there, someone can correct me, but that’s my understanding without tearing through the actual history at 9am during my second cup of coffee.

I agree , no need to correct you but I can expand ; I recently linked to 'The Magical Mason ' book about Westcott . He is not the only one there are many . There were a LOT of masonic rites going around ( connected through the Red Lodges - 'higher degrees ' and obscure or 'side rights' . A lot of them got incorporated into the early O.T.O. - especially 'Rites of Memphis and Mizriam ( originally 97 degrees ! ) Rudolph Steiner ( founder of anthroposophy ) was another ( and was actually a Lodge Master for RMM ) .

If something has a 'Lodge ' structure , then it most likely came down from a Masonic source .

You can see the same framework show up a lot with initiatory degrees, degree/grade ladder, symbolism, ritual in a lodge/temple setting, oaths, secrecy, officers, etc.

That doesn’t mean Freemasonry is “the occult” or a magickal order in itself. It’s its own thing. But the structure is very similar to what a lot of magickal orders later used, so people who are in one are going to recognize the feel of the other, and they wouldn’t be wrong to notice the parallels.

Mostly it seems the Blue Lodges and the first three degrees where not 'occult' in the magical sense - but certainly occult in the root sense sense that they were hidden , concealed or secret ( Latin; occultus ) . Then the higher degrees and Red Lodges that some chose to go on to was the usual source for more 'magical' exploration . Masons so inclined would find , adapt or make up rites and lectures ; some might get accepted and approved and ended up as valid rites in the process or 'side rites' some were considered suspect - 'spurious or clandestine' - and not accepted , so in many cases these became a rite or 'mystery ' outside of Freemasonry .

Why do some occultists become Masons? I think it depends on the type of occultist. It probably appeals more to the formal, ritual-heavy types than, say, Chaotes, Witches, etc. That’s just a guess from the outside.

It seems valid though . In my experience , those that considered joining masonry were in the type of magical groups that had originally evolved from them and it was somewhat from a 'research' position . The other way around ; a mason joining an order that was not Freemasonry , they were usually Red Lodge and interested in other degrees outside the first 3 and saw these orders as an extension of other degrees .

One example ; a lawyer I worked with for a couple of years was a Masonic Rosecross Chapter master and a 2nd degree OTO .

In my family’s case, there was a very dark occult current that ran under the surface and used the Lodge as ready made scaffolding. The structure, secrecy, and respectability were already there, so it was a natural container for them hidden in plain sight. Not implying that’s what Masonry is in general, just saying that’s how my people used it successfully for generations.

There was a time when secrecy was basically mandatory for occultists if you wanted to survive socially or literally. Same with Freemasonry, secrecy was a massive part of the structure. Now that so much information is out in the open and the occult is being de-occulted, there’s less survival need for orders. A lot of people join lodges now for social reasons, networking, or family tradition, and a lot of magicians skip orders altogether. To each his/her own.

Interesting family history you have , it seems . have you revealed any of it here on the forum ?

Many have used that framework for various ends , political would be the most obvious ; everything from Weishaupt's 'Illuminati' to the founding of the ideals of the USA .

 

[FireBorn]

Interesting family history you have , it seems . have you revealed any of it here on the forum ?

I mentioned it in parts in my journal here. Nothing in detail on a public forum obviously. That isn't meant to make myself sound cooler than I am, or special or mysterious in any way.