Journal Go big or Go home

[SeekerPS]

Well i have been very busy with normal life and that has forced me to slow down progress. The good thing is I have all the materials now. I need to find a place to do the evocation and that has proven to be very difficult.

as per Skinner’s recommendation on its books and podcasts, the best place is somewhere near the countryside, and I would need to rent some kind of cabin or holiday house.

I cannot do it where i live currently because of my family, and that’s the bottleneck that is slowing the project up til now

 

[SeekerPS]

Just a small update everything is set for October 17. According to my calculations it has the best timing: hour and day of venus, with the moon in the decans of virgo. I hope to do it at the mid day but if not possible then at night

 

[Diamond-otherkin]

Remarkable work, very interested in your work and your result. Greatly appreciate the amazing clarity of the detailed explanation.
Lon Milo Duquette's books also got me thinking a lot about this type of work but I have not done it in any similar way yet. Looking forwards to reading more

 

[SeekerPS]

​

First Attempt​

• Day: Monday, October 13.
• Reason for moving: I had planned for Friday, but an important medical appointment came up. I moved it to Monday per Stellas Daemonum guidelines (see excerpt: emphasizes working on the **days/hours of Venus, Mercury, and Luna, with primary attention to the Moon—especially its transit through Virgo).

Preparation​

• Sexual abstinence: 1 week
• Masturbation abstinence: 4 days
• No food fasting (to avoid family suspicion)

Day of the rite​

• Two baths with Psalm 51; perfume
• Dr. Rudd prayer when donning pants and white robe

Temple & tools​

• Circle and triangle laid out
• Circle traced/consecrated with knife
• Charcoal and incense (frankincense & sandalwood) blessed
• Performed at the appropriate planetary day/hour (chosen for Moon/Monday)

Working​

• At least 4 repetitions of each of the conjurations
• Visible sign: smoke ring around the sigil; at times the paper seemed to float against the black background

Difficulties​

• Focus was hard from standing so long
• Answers may have been mental projection: At one point I thought the spirit was answering my questions; however, since the answers were expected and unsurprising, I concluded they might have been my own mind rather than the spirit.

Closing​

• Delivered charge (reward if fulfilled / burn sigil if not)
• Specified ticket and same-night drawing
• License to depart and exit from the circle

Outcome​

• No prize in the drawing

Next steps​

• Carry out the threat (burn the sigil), and/or
• Consider a psychoactive (e.g., cannabis), noting it impairs focus for me

 

[Faria]

• Carry out the threat (burn the sigil), and/or
• Consider a psychoactive (e.g., cannabis), noting it impairs focus for me

1. Assume that the spirit is not and never will be interested in your request and will ignore you unless forced to do so by the most unwelcome and compelling force. From that perspective, what reason does the spirit have to fulfill your request?

2. If it were helpful to just take some drugs, Crowley would have written a much shorter Chapter XV: The Invocation in "Magick."

 

[SeekerPS]

1. Assume that the spirit is not and never will be interested in your request and will ignore you unless forced to do so by the most unwelcome and compelling force. From that perspective, what reason does the spirit have to fulfill your request?

I offered a reward, trying to balance the stick with a carrot. there are things that we can do they can't; like burning incense, but then again, if i have to carry the threat i can do it

 

[Faria]

I offered a reward, trying to balance the stick with a carrot. there are things that we can do they can't; like burning incense, but then again, if i have to carry the threat i can do it

There is no reward that you can offer. Nothing. You cannot have or give anything that will motivate the spirit in the least way. I don't care what (whoever) told you, they don't know what they're talking about. I've been doing this since before you were born. You have nothing the spirits want.

You can pledge yourself body and soul to the service of the spirit, and it STILL won't help you because then you would get what it wants, not what you want.

Whoever is telling you not to be rude to spirits, stop listening to those people. Just forget it, they don't know squat. They know what they've read and what they think, and their work with spirits is mostly irrelevant to this whole Art. You can be nice and cool and have others say you're doing the right thing, or you can have Megamillions. Fuck those people and their meaningless opinions, be a tyrant and demand satisfaction and you will have it.

Fortify yourself as if you are a saint, unmoved by anything that is not eternal. Shove your blasting rod up Satan's bunghole if you must. Compel them with divine power. That is the grimoire way. If you don't like that, might as well just burn incense and pray at an altar.

 

[SeekerPS]

There is no reward that you can offer. Nothing. You cannot have or give anything that will motivate the spirit in the least way. I don't care what (whoever) told you, they don't know what they're talking about. I've been doing this since before you were born. You have nothing the spirits want.

You can pledge yourself body and soul to the service of the spirit, and it STILL won't help you because then you would get what it wants, not what you want.

Whoever is telling you not to be rude to spirits, stop listening to those people. Just forget it, they don't know squat. They know what they've read and what they think, and their work with spirits is mostly irrelevant to this whole Art. You can be nice and cool and have others say you're doing the right thing, or you can have Megamillions. Fuck those people and their meaningless opinions, be a tyrant and demand satisfaction and you will have it.

Fortify yourself as if you are a saint, unmoved by anything that is not eternal. Shove your blasting rod up Satan's bunghole if you must. Compel them with divine power. That is the grimoire way. If you don't like that, might as well just burn incense and pray at an altar.

I will show it that im pissed off then, next time I perform the ritual

 

[MorganBlack]

Whoever is telling you not to be rude to spirits, stop listening to those people. Just forget it, they don't know squat.

First rock, on! Just seeing this thread now. You made my week, SeekerPS! So few step into the circle.

Okay, Yep yep. I wouldn't worry about offending them. It just creates a servile approach that is not useful. Take a strong hand when you need to. This is business, not religion.

In the end most of what we do in ritual is for the magician. There the various mythic stories, Greek, Jewish and Chistian, form a continuum of how to approach them.

The one thing the daimons want is our attention. We give them forms, names, and roles. We are the Creator god of our personal universes and are teaching them as much as they are working for us.

The stories and myths, as well as the very ritual structure, shapes our interactions with them established the boundaries of our interactions.

In my view, any offering and food is given as attention and invitation. Sure, we are "feeding" them, but that too is drama. What we are doing is inviting them using a deeply human gesture that is wired in the back of our heads.

 

[cormundum]

Fortify yourself as if you are a saint, unmoved by anything that is not eternal. Shove your blasting rod up Satan's bunghole if you must. Compel them with divine power. That is the grimoire way. If you don't like that, might as well just burn incense and pray at an altar.

I like the way you put this. People need to drop the bs that modern magicians have shoved down their throats about all this "Beelzebub is so sweet and loves chocolate!" nonsense. "Oh I did Abramelin and now I worship the demons, now buy my book!" Invoke the power of God and the authority of your Holy Guardian Angel, and tell the demons what's what. Nothing else works.

... In the end most of what we do in ritual is for the magician. There the various mythic stories, Greek, Jewish and Chistian, form a continuum of how to approach them.

... The stories and myths, as well as the very ritual structure, shapes our interactions with them established the boundaries of our interactions.

The whole bit here about ritual procedures being for the humans rather than the spirits is something that I think is lost now. This is why magick, if practiced long enough, eventually resembles some unique, personalized form of practice that has little (or nothing) to do with the established grimoire rites. Eventually you figure out that all the different forms are just that, Forms, for something that is real and symbolically represents that. The goal really should be to simplify things, like solving an algebraic equation, rather than continuously complicating things by adding extra practices on top of devotions with adding offerings to the spirits.

 

[MorganBlack]

At the Sublunar, differentiated and individualized level, offerings are useful. But there are limits.

When we practice sorcery, we are dealing with a whole bunch of deeply instinctual stuff in the back of our heads that shapes Human Mythic Space. We mythologize that as Chthonic.

Taking that at face value: in the ATR's and New World traditions there are differences, but these are deeply chthonic practices. The forces there personified as many of the spirits of the ATR's were formed in tribal practices that were often crafted for warfare. Sold to suburbanite New Age folks as spirituality. I have seen houses where they take "serving the spirits" so far that everybody there is basically reduced to staff - cooking and cooking all the time for the forces they call. There are good houses in Vodou, but some of these others, do not recommend.

 

[SeekerPS]

At the Sublunar, differentiated and individualized level, offerings are useful. But there are limits.

When we practice sorcery, we are dealing with a whole bunch of deeply instinctual stuff in the back of our heads that shapes Human Mythic Space. We mythologize that as Chthonic.

Taking that at face value: in the ATR's and New World traditions there are differences, but these are deeply chthonic practices. The forces there personified as many of the spirits of the ATR's were formed in tribal practices that were often crafted for warfare. Sold to suburbanite New Age folks as spirituality. I have seen houses where they take "serving the spirits" so far that everybody there is basically reduced to staff - cooking and cooking all the time for the forces they call. There are good houses in Vodou, but some of these others, do not recommend.

I don’t know what is ATR

 

[MorganBlack]

ATR = African Traditional Religion.

The big New World ones are Vodou, Palo, Ifa, Santeria, Quimbanda, Condomble, 21 Divisions, and Obeah.

 

[SeekerPS]

It's been a long time since the last update. the reason is that i have not had any way to procure a brass vessel for the experiments, so maybe i can get help from people here. i searched on temu for some options that i could use but i'm not sure they are brass, and i don't know any place locally where i could have one made. i visited antiquaries but they cannot assure to me that the material is brass and some are too large and expensive. so, if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, i would like to hear them

 

[Amadeus]

antiquaries

You might find something on Etsy.

Those Chinese sites have questionable items. I've bought items from the main Chinese sites but not anything made of brass. I can remember reading an article about metal stuff bought from temu. The items were checked and they contained something completely different. They promise you one thing but it might be something else.

 

[BrMage]

Hello. I remember now that in the Jonas Sufurino edition of Book of Saint Cyprian have a prayer to win in lottery, I only have it in portuguese, but if anyone wants I can translate.
The operation is simple, you copy the prayer in a virgin sheet of paper using the sacred ink, and every night you make the prayer and put the paper under you pillow. The book says that you will have a dream and an angel, or some spirit, will tell you the numbers.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 2:28 PM

At the Sublunar, differentiated and individualized level, offerings are useful. But there are limits.

When we practice sorcery, we are dealing with a whole bunch of deeply instinctual stuff in the back of our heads that shapes Human Mythic Space. We mythologize that as Chthonic.

Taking that at face value: in the ATR's and New World traditions there are differences, but these are deeply chthonic practices. The forces there personified as many of the spirits of the ATR's were formed in tribal practices that were often crafted for warfare. Sold to suburbanite New Age folks as spirituality. I have seen houses where they take "serving the spirits" so far that everybody there is basically reduced to staff - cooking and cooking all the time for the forces they call. There are good houses in Vodou, but some of these others, do not recommend.

I'm a Tata ("master") of Brazilian Quimbanda, and I have to agree that some houses are like you say. But it's not a rule, now we here have peoples doing great effort to change this situation. I think that the cause is bad people tying to have a personal project of power using the cult.
About the topic of win in lottery, I remember in 2009, my Tata at the time received money from the jogo do bicho (a very famous illegal gambling game in Brazil). He would channel a spirit (Exu Mirim) who, in exchange for drinks and some gifts, would tell him the winning numbers. Then the owners of the gambling operation would pay him not to work with this spirit. The interesting part is: Exu Mirim never revealed the number to him, every time the spirit told the number to others in exchange of cachaça ans some offerings, always small offerings.

 

[SeekerPS]

Hello. I remember now that in the Jonas Sufurino edition of Book of Saint Cyprian have a prayer to win in lottery, I only have it in portuguese, but if anyone wants I can translate.
The operation is simple, you copy the prayer in a virgin sheet of paper using the sacred ink, and every night you make the prayer and put the paper under you pillow. The book says that you will have a dream and an angel, or some spirit, will tell you the numbers.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 2:28 PM

I'm a Tata ("master") of Brazilian Quimbanda, and I have to agree that some houses are like you say. But it's not a rule, now we here have peoples doing great effort to change this situation. I think that the cause is bad people tying to have a personal project of power using the cult.
About the topic of win in lottery, I remember in 2009, my Tata at the time received money from the jogo do bicho (a very famous illegal gambling game in Brazil). He would channel a spirit (Exu Mirim) who, in exchange for drinks and some gifts, would tell him the winning numbers. Then the owners of the gambling operation would pay him not to work with this spirit. The interesting part is: Exu Mirim never revealed the number to him, every time the spirit told the number to others in exchange of cachaça ans some offerings, always small offerings.

I didn’t understand the last part of the Edu mitin not giving him the number. Anyway I have the St Ciprian in Spanish with that prayer. But I’m so bad at remembering my dreams I didn’t tried it.