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Lilith is one of the jinn and demons of the jinn realm, and she is known by various names across different cultures. If you’ve noticed this, you can trace her through a simple thread—her legend. You’ll find that her stories are similar and intertwined, featuring the same planetary symbols and planetary incense. You’ll find that she is the same entity, though her forms vary depending solely on the types of plants and animals available in each region. However, you’ll find her to be the same. to her transcendent planet, Venus. Knowledge is a mosaic scattered throughout all books; gather them meticulously, and I have saved you half the journey.
your correct as far as her legends go. however I think she is more than what most consider like I said I see her as a goddess.and most likely she predates most of the currently recorded history. many of her legends even attested to such.
I do not believe for a moment that there are gods; the word “god” is a single term applied exclusively to the Creator. As for what has been mentioned regarding the myths of idols and entities, they all belong to a category called “taghut,” and the word “taghut” means “the arrogant one” or “the depraved one”—that is, one who has strayed from the right path and transgressed his limits. The important thing is that these entities exist and have an influence; they are all from the jinn, but they belong to the most powerful and widely followed sect. That is why they sought sovereignty and demanded worship—they are among the demons of sorcery—and, of course, they are ruled by the angels. This is what I know.
I do not believe for a moment that there are gods; the word “god” is a single term applied exclusively to the Creator. As for what has been mentioned regarding the myths of idols and entities, they all belong to a category called “taghut,” and the word “taghut” means “the arrogant one” or “the depraved one”—that is, one who has strayed from the right path and transgressed his limits. The important thing is that these entities exist and have an influence; they are all from the jinn, but they belong to the most powerful and widely followed sect. That is why they sought sovereignty and demanded worship—they are among the demons of sorcery—and, of course, they are ruled by the angels. This is what I know.
your model seems rather a blunt implement of understanding. There are components to the entities that could be called "gods", not all of them inherently demonic (or jinn, if that's your prefered nomenclature). Since all the names, faces and domains of all the gods belong to their creator and only his design can they ultimately serve, what even remains?
I do not believe for a moment that there are gods; the word “god” is a single term applied exclusively to the Creator. As for what has been mentioned regarding the myths of idols and entities, they all belong to a category called “taghut,” and the word “taghut” means “the arrogant one” or “the depraved one”—that is, one who has strayed from the right path and transgressed his limits. The important thing is that these entities exist and have an influence; they are all from the jinn, but they belong to the most powerful and widely followed sect. That is why they sought sovereignty and demanded worship—they are among the demons of sorcery—and, of course, they are ruled by the angels. This is what I know.
oh ok. I understand where your coming from however we have a fundamental difference in the way we see existence. i dont belive there is a overall creator is anything im a polytheist. as for the Abrahamic god I believe that it is the pretender the malignant force.
I appreciate you sharing all this with me it is very interesting.
oh ok. I understand where your coming from however we have a fundamental difference in the way we see existence. i dont belive there is a overall creator is anything im a polytheist. as for the Abrahamic god I believe that it is the pretender the malignant force.
I appreciate you sharing all this with me it is very interesting.
If you would excuse me interjecting, I'm always curious about the mechanics of those satanist-adjacent worldviews, if you don't mind me calling it that. What exactly is malice to you? What does make you find the abrahamic God malicious, exactly?
If you would excuse me interjecting, I'm always curious about the mechanics of those satanist-adjacent worldviews, if you don't mind me calling it that. What exactly is malice to you? What does make you find the abrahamic God malicious, exactly?
oh of course feel free np.
I dont exactly see myself that way but I understand how someone would think im Satanist-adjacent. I dont take any offense to it tho.
malice is the willful inflection of pain in all its form, distress.
their are a ton of specific reasons but to simplify things some ill give some a few examples.
we are all aware of what abusive or toxic traits are in relationships be it friends or lovers. well the Abrahamic god exemplifies all of that, not just one or two things but seriously most. it doesn't make sense to me to just excuse horrible hurtful behavior in any kind of relationship at all.
Then there was all the atrocities he himself caused.
He constantly throughout the works about him treats all his creations like play things, with no regards to how that being may feel. He calls that love?
Also if he omnipotent then he knowingly set into motion both falls of the angels, the ejection of Adam and Eve from the garden, the rise and fall of lucifer. he knew that they wpukd happe he set it all in motion the gaslighted all of them respectively.
the gender inequality really bothers me allot as well. women are treated horribly in all the holy books attributed to gods grace or however you want to say it.
to.me yaweh is a pretender, a parasite. an accidental creation that in its incomplete state consumes others so that it can feel whole. his first target being Baal.
despite how incredibly factually inaccurate the Bible is (I cannot speak for the Quran because I have yet to put in the work studying it to feel confident enough, however I can guess that it will be the same as ita brothers) its been taken so fucking literally. you can say that is the fault of its followers but where did they get that from? the entirety of the church untill very recently.
I hope that helps. if you have any specific questions im more than happy to discuss them.
oh of course feel free np.
I dont exactly see myself that way but I understand how someone would think im Satanist-adjacent. I dont take any offense to it tho.
malice is the willful inflection of pain in all its form, distress.
their are a ton of specific reasons but to simplify things some ill give some a few examples.
we are all aware of what abusive or toxic traits are in relationships be it friends or lovers. well the Abrahamic god exemplifies all of that, not just one or two things but seriously most. it doesn't make sense to me to just excuse horrible hurtful behavior in any kind of relationship at all.
Then there was all the atrocities he himself caused.
He constantly throughout the works about him treats all his creations like play things, with no regards to how that being may feel. He calls that love?
Also if he omnipotent then he knowingly set into motion both falls of the angels, the ejection of Adam and Eve from the garden, the rise and fall of lucifer. he knew that they wpukd happe he set it all in motion the gaslighted all of them respectively.
the gender inequality really bothers me allot as well. women are treated horribly in all the holy books attributed to gods grace or however you want to say it.
to.me yaweh is a pretender, a parasite. an accidental creation that in its incomplete state consumes others so that it can feel whole. his first target being Baal.
despite how incredibly factually inaccurate the Bible is (I cannot speak for the Quran because I have yet to put in the work studying it to feel confident enough, however I can guess that it will be the same as ita brothers) its been taken so fucking literally. you can say that is the fault of its followers but where did they get that from? the entirety of the church untill very recently.
I hope that helps. if you have any specific questions im more than happy to discuss them.
The tension between symbols, interpretations and meanings, names and characters is certainly interesting. I will resist the rather uncourteous urge to go sentence by sentence, I don't think I'd learn much this way. Apologies if this comes off as preachy, to reach across the spectrum of belief with accuracy is surprisingly difficult.
I empathise fully with your distaste at the entity you see Yahveh as - for what it's worth I agree that it's a pretender and parasite. I do also sympathise with the way you constructed this image, it's certainly consistent. It is, however, based on a reading of the Bible, and it's an abject failure of certain churches (US is global peak of lunacy when it comes to spiritual insight among Christians) to find themselves preaching what is in many way consistent with that reading.
Across the possible readings there exists, however, at least one that is, I believe, fully true without much semantic strain on the text that paints a Yahveh who is exactly what he claims to be.
What I wanted to say interests me here is that your moral objections against what you read as Yahveh are completely consistent with the moral character of the Yahveh as I read him.
The tension between symbols, interpretations and meanings, names and characters is certainly interesting. I will resist the rather uncourteous urge to go sentence by sentence, I don't think I'd learn much this way. Apologies if this comes off as preachy, to reach across the spectrum of belief with accuracy is surprisingly difficult.
I empathise fully with your distaste at the entity you see Yahveh as - for what it's worth I agree that it's a pretender and parasite. I do also sympathise with the way you constructed this image, it's certainly consistent. It is, however, based on a reading of the Bible, and it's an abject failure of certain churches (US is global peak of lunacy when it comes to spiritual insight among Christians) to find themselves preaching what is in many way consistent with that reading.
Across the possible readings there exists, however, at least one that is, I believe, fully true without much semantic strain on the text that paints a Yahveh who is exactly what he claims to be.
What I wanted to say interests me here is that your moral objections against what you read as Yahveh are completely consistent with the moral character of the Yahveh as I read him.
we can go line for line if you want really. I can pull references and give citations if you woukd like. I was just breaking down the ideas so it wasn't a ridiculously long post.
the only parts of Christianity I agree with at all are some of the gnostic ones. they themselves thing of yahweh as a parasite accidentally made by Sophia.
im sure there is a group that has distilled down "God" into only the best parts but that seems way to much like a battered spouse saying "you dont know them like I do! they arnt a bad person! if only you could see us when its just us."
im not saying that you are that way just that the denomination comes across that way.
also forgive all the Grammer and spelling errors im tired lol
I grew up in a non denominational christ church that was probably close to what you mentioned however it was always gross to me.
being in places or around stuff like that gives me a very sick feeling in my stomach.
we can go line for line if you want really. I can pull references and give citations if you woukd like. I was just breaking down the ideas so it wasn't a ridiculously long post.
the only parts of Christianity I agree with at all are some of the gnostic ones. they themselves thing of yahweh as a parasite accidentally made by Sophia.
im sure there is a group that has distilled down "God" into only the best parts but that seems way to much like a battered spouse saying "you dont know them like I do! they arnt a bad person! if only you could see us when its just us."
im not saying that you are that way just that the denomination comes across that way.
also forgive all the Grammer and spelling errors im tired lol
I grew up in a non denominational christ church that was probably close to what you mentioned however it was always gross to me.
being in places or around stuff like that gives me a very sick feeling in my stomach.
so what are your views?
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sorry I just saw this. I have no memory of what I gave it. I wish I did though.
Yeah, well, mainline Catholicism does a pretty good job with that, though it accidentally hides the good parts behind truly atrocious linguistic maneuvers because most priests have negligible understanding and the whole thing floats on what's likely the most virulent memetic architecture in the history of human thought, but that's I feel a tangent. I don't think I'm battered but thanks for the concern I guess.
As I'm typing this I realise the scale of this topic is kind of overwhelming so it just ended up a desperate attempt to weave some modicum of context. That's what happens when you try to spell out even relatively shallow arcana.
In this section I will use declarative language for my beliefs, for brevity.
Firstly we have to choose by what moral standard we want to judge God's actions. Your standard seems either emotive or hedonistic, so either what feels "bad" or "gross" is evil or causing suffering is evil. I especially reject the latter stance - suffering is just a neutral thing that exists, causing it can be (and in fact most often is) evil, but I don't accept it as a fundamental moral principle. There are worse things than pain, of any kind. I propose a following standard: the goal of God is providing the freedom to choose happiness to all the humans, and by that principle alone his actions should be judged.
Another thing is omnipotence and all that stuff. He experiences all the time simultaneously. He literally made it, the whole circle or whatever shape it is, not just the beginning. The thing with humans about "being made in his image" means that free choice, though experienced through the lens of particular moments in time, is really a part of this timeless creation of the universe. He haven't "knew" about it because there is no past for this foreknowledge to be in.
The stories with Lucifer, the apple incident, the tower of Babel and several others are Myths in the truest sense, they are abstracted, archetypal ways human actions play out across history. Interestingly most of them find inverted realisations in gospels.
Back to morality, nobody is consistently happy because everyone does things that harm themselves aka sin. For humans the only moral standard is to be truly happy. The problem is that humans have no idea what gives them happiness and once they get to know (Sermon on the Mountain) it turns out completely unattainable, hence (complicatedly) the Cross incident, and also the fact that God seems to tolerate the atrocious things his People do and even go along to a degree - from his (again, the Sermon) perspective your moral standards for judging ancient Israelites are only negligibly more civilised than the actions you (rightly) judge as disgusting.
This rather ugly loredump is, unfortunately, by no means exhaustive.
"Literally" is a stupid word, meaning is always symbol plus interpretation. "Naively" I like to call what majority of US protestants do.
And, if advice is not out of place, I think you'd find great value in trying to find out what the creature has taken.
I have this issue as well. But I see things all the time. So idk, for me it's normal. Ever since I was a baby people said a woman would come into my room who looked similar to my mom. Later I figured out who she was. It's always freaky when you least expect it though.
my moral stance is that nothing should cause injury or harm to others the only exception to this is in self defense. it is especially egregious to do so willingly. It is everyone's responsibility to alienate suffering, and their by thier suffering will be alleviated. power should not be monopolized and those that seek to do so should be stopped.
family, relationships of all kinds and love in general are far more important than material things and should be treated as such.
thats goes back to my issue with yaweh. , despite what is currently held to be cannon he was a lesser God that lusted for power and in so doing relegated his consort to a footnote and owes what he has to having stolen it from Baal mainly. all of this is deplorable.
I have this issue as well. But I see things all the time. So idk, for me it's normal. Ever since I was a baby people said a woman would come into my room who looked similar to my mom. Later I figured out who she was. It's always freaky when you least expect it though.
I can imagine. I dont see things much anymore just the ghost things that live in mh house and thats not often. but seeing something peek around corners when your walking through a dark house is definitely surprising to say the least. lol
my moral stance is that nothing should cause injury or harm to others the only exception to this is in self defense. it is especially egregious to do so willingly. It is everyone's responsibility to alienate suffering, and their by thier suffering will be alleviated. power should not be monopolized and those that seek to do so should be stopped.
family, relationships of all kinds and love in general are far more important than material things and should be treated as such.
thats goes back to my issue with yaweh. , despite what is currently held to be cannon he was a lesser God that lusted for power and in so doing relegated his consort to a footnote and owes what he has to having stolen it from Baal mainly. all of this is deplorable.
Yeah, so as I said, to you suffering is objectively evil. I must say I strongly disagree.
This lore about Yahveh being a lesser deity taking power from Baal though. Where are you getting all that knowledge? How does one god take power from another if not by having more of it in the first place, by the way?
I don't think I'd call the Queen of Heaven "reduced to a footnote" given that majority of his scriptures by volume are the story of her apotheosis and their betrothal.
About the horned thing, and I ask mostly out of curiosity, what have you tried?
I guess my veins one suffering come allot from the eastern concept like the way its viewed in Buddhism. we may disagree but I think its more the inflicting of excess suffering by other sentient beings that im more opposed to than anything. Live is innately suffering tbh. so what one sgoies through normal life wise is fine its not evil but when you I inflict it on another unless in defense of one's self or that of another. How could that not be considered a bad thing?
This lore about Yahveh being a lesser deity taking power from Baal though. Where are you getting all that knowledge? How does one god take power from another if not by having more of it in the first place, by the way?
ill have to find the references its been awhile since ive looked into it and I lost everything I owned a few years back so I dont have the books I used to. but give me some time and ill find them for you.
I don't think I'd call the Queen of Heaven "reduced to a footnote" given that majority of his scriptures by volume are the story of her apotheosis and their betrothal.
how many Christians know of her? shes known in gnostic circles thats about it really.
also the Bible itself treats women as property and allows daughters to be sold into slavery but not the normal slavery where man get frees after a time but life long slavery. amongst all the other deplorable acts sanctioned by those holy books.
even the demonization of Judas is likely incorrect. its all a mess of nonsense that unfortunately has been used to shape way to much of society.
ive mainly traid to find out what it likely is soe that I can have some idea of what its modus is. other than that some meditation related stuff to try and open that part in my mind thats been sealed off. I end up coming to this locked door often, however when I do its terrifying, and I haven't been in a state to really do allot to open it.
im in a somewhat better state besides a traumatic head injury a cpl months ago so ill probably start working on it again. I woukd like to have dedicated much more time and energy to figure out what I gave it but life has gotten in the way.
If you have any suggestions I would be greatly appreciative to hear them.
I guess my veins one suffering come allot from the eastern concept like the way its viewed in Buddhism. we may disagree but I think its more the inflicting of excess suffering by other sentient beings that im more opposed to than anything. Live is innately suffering tbh. so what one sgoies through normal life wise is fine its not evil but when you I inflict it on another unless in defense of one's self or that of another. How could that not be considered a bad thing?
Defense is a flimsy term to define. To inflict suffering is usually evil because of what it means to do that, not the suffering itself. It's a matter of imposing your will upon someone else's life, simplifying a bit.
I assure you she's widely known and venerated directly and indirectly in several holidays, at least in the Catholic Church. Queen of Heaven is perhaps the not the best-known name, though - That would be Mother Church, or perhaps simply the Bride.
also the Bible itself treats women as property and allows daughters to be sold into slavery but not the normal slavery where man get frees after a time but life long slavery. amongst all the other deplorable acts sanctioned by those holy books.
Bible is not a unit slab of supposed moral purity. It's a rather complex story about an ancient culture and those generally get nasty from our perspective. "Sanctioned" is really a big nothing word here. How we think about those matters today is a product of a culture that derived its moral principles from the Bible. The book, taken as a whole, cannot lead to both the criticised position and the critique itself.
That's really unfortunate. He is indeed minunderstood - what doomed him was not the betrayal, it was the fact that he hanged himself after, refusing to accept forgiveness.
ive mainly traid to find out what it likely is soe that I can have some idea of what its modus is. other than that some meditation related stuff to try and open that part in my mind thats been sealed off. I end up coming to this locked door often, however when I do its terrifying, and I haven't been in a state to really do allot to open it.
im in a somewhat better state besides a traumatic head injury a cpl months ago so ill probably start working on it again. I woukd like to have dedicated much more time and energy to figure out what I gave it but life has gotten in the way.
If you have any suggestions I would be greatly appreciative to hear them.
If there is a door then there is a key. Voices and faces can be lent to the ebbs and flows of the unconscious, as in Jung's method. Ask around, maybe someone will show up who has the key or knows where it is. Maybe you'll find a way to summon the creature itself.
The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...
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For context, Gen-X, Anglo-Latino, grew up secular. Was agnostic , then Thelemic, now mystical Folk Catholic / Idealist + Animist (long story), but not too aggro about it.
The amazing thing is when spiritual entity is encounter not directly in its form but the entity used vessel he may be appear in form of existing things mostly i form of animals
I’ve had a direct patron entity reach out me during sleep paralysis. Felt very real and communicated with me. I was very scared in the moment but did not appear to be threatening.
Currently seeing a coyote out of corner of my eye for the past while. On the side of the road or sitting next to me. Feels strange not sure what it means. If anyone has insight please share. …..
I’ve had a direct patron entity reach out me during sleep paralysis. Felt very real and communicated with me. I was very scared in the moment but did not appear to be threatening.
Currently seeing a coyote out of corner of my eye for the past while. On the side of the road or sitting next to me. Feels strange not sure what it means. If anyone has insight please share. …..
Yeah, so as I said, to you suffering is objectively evil. I must say I strongly disagree.
This lore about Yahveh being a lesser deity taking power from Baal though. Where are you getting all that knowledge? How does one god take power from another if not by having more of it in the first place, by the way?
I don't think I'd call the Queen of Heaven "reduced to a footnote" given that majority of his scriptures by volume are the story of her apotheosis and their betrothal.
About the horned thing, and I ask mostly out of curiosity, what have you tried?
Defense is a flimsy term to define. To inflict suffering is usually evil because of what it means to do that, not the suffering itself. It's a matter of imposing your will upon someone else's life, simplifying a bit.
I assure you she's widely known and venerated directly and indirectly in several holidays, at least in the Catholic Church. Queen of Heaven is perhaps the not the best-known name, though - That would be Mother Church, or perhaps simply the Bride
I didnt day unknown just not widely so.
Catholics are maybe half of the world's Christians and our of them lets be generous and say that 60% know of her none the less venerate her. thays a huge amount that done plus the half that aren't Catholic generally mistrust Catholics allot of which us from the veneration of saints and such but thats a whole different matter.
Bible is not a unit slab of supposed moral purity. It's a rather complex story about an ancient culture and those generally get nasty from our perspective. "Sanctioned" is really a big nothing word here. How we think about those matters today is a product of a culture that derived its moral principles from the Bible. The book, taken as a whole, cannot lead to both the criticised position and the critique itself.
in my experience, what you are saying is extremely uncommon. its a much better view for sure but Ive met very very few ppl that look at it that way. thus my comment of its "sanctioned" violence against women is very substantial since there is a large part that take it at its word.
what do you mean by that last part? can you clarify that position please?
That's really unfortunate. He is indeed minunderstood - what doomed him was not the betrayal, it was the fact that he hanged himself after, refusing to accept forgiveness.
there is evidence including a gospel that reframes the picture entirely. making Judas a willing participant. Jesus asking him to "betray" him it had something to do with the church and the man who needed to building it (idr his name) and his misguided that was due to the fact that no group or man can provide the connection to the divine because its within us all. so Judas was in fact a martyr. its been awhile since ive read it but I think that sums it up.
If there is a door then there is a key. Voices and faces can be lent to the ebbs and flows of the unconscious, as in Jung's method. Ask around, maybe someone will show up who has the key or knows where it is. Maybe you'll find a way to summon the creature itself.
its not locked i just had a cpl visions about it where I was pleaded with to not open it. they are kinda long but I can explain if you woykd like. however I dont know what the motivations behind what I was shown where so it seems like I should pursue finding an opening it again.
The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...
wizardforums.com
For context, Gen-X, Anglo-Latino, grew up secular. Was agnostic , then Thelemic, now mystical Folk Catholic / Idealist + Animist (long story), but not too aggro about it.
So summarise some of it with a more general answer: the US is a strange place for cultural phenomena. Protestant Christianity is often in many ways a half-wilted, warped bunch of offshoots with primitive intellectual tools, completely stunted mysticism and some franky repugnant takes on theology and morality. In terms of spirituality and interpretation of scriptures Catholic and Orthodox churches should, I think, be treated as the mainline variants.
Morality is not perceived as objective (not to settle whether an objective morality exists). What people think of as good or evil is at least largely a product of their culture. The ideas, for example, that slavery is wrong or that people are in some way equal are products of a fundamentally Christian culture and, ultimately, derivations from the biblical moral code. That is, the moral code the bible as a whole seems to set up, not some particular Old Testament story about a particular moment in moral development of ancient Israel.
Gospel of Judas was almost certainly written by Gnostics about three centuries after the whole incident, and this story about Lilith being Yahveh's consort is I'm pretty sure a Jewish folk story absent from scriptures completely. Also, about Baal, the Bible calls by that name something like five or six different deities, simply not bothering to distinguish and using a word meaning "Lord". Thanks for the articles, I'll look at them when I have a while.
Find it, open it. Your past is meant to belong to you.
What people think of as good or evil is at least largely a product of their culture. The ideas, for example, that slavery is wrong or that people are in some way equal are products of a fundamentally Christian culture and, ultimately, derivations from the biblical moral code. That is, the moral code the bible as a whole seems to set up.
I don't know much about Protestant Christianity or Christianity in general so can't comment on that but I do know about history and this is wrong.
Like most literature the BibIe is up to interpretation of the reader. Its why theres so many schisms and why some churches are more or less tolerant. In the times of SIavery sIaveholders wouId use the BibIe to justify SIavery. Did you ever hear about the curse of Cain or Ham in history. That was used to justify the modern American sIavery.
This isn't to shame the BibIe since many peopIe nowadays do not have that intrepration of the BibIe anymore but it was stiII in history. It cannot be erased. Again not everyone follows that and most today do not so it is up to intrepration but these bIanket statements are untrue since again literature (like the BibIe is) is usaIIy up to how th reader interprets it.
As for physicaI encounters I've had. I brought this up once before maybe in this thread but I think I might have seen a ghost before.
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