Have you become God yet? The point of Theurgy

[slim116]

I am cynical about theurgy.
But you know, the areas i want to ask about maybe too personal to share, but what the hell, ill ask anyway.

So the work of theurgic magic takes years to do. And your still not done. It takes a belief in afterlife and in cosmology that you cannot definitely know is true, until you die and see for yourself if it is, or not.

And surely one who is on wizard forums knows that the universe cant be defined in one cosmology cuz of the numerous books in the library showing countless different cosmologies and opinions on the unseen realm. One view alone is not 100% the objective truth.

So, whats the point of theurgy? What if it is just a misplaced hope of obtaining godhood, and your just doing something for years for not obtaining what your going for?
Is it just a psychological comfort, or defence mechanism to feel better about the unknown?

And okay, say one achieved some level where they're considered divine, is that person self deluded? (Sort of thinking of Steven Segal here, getting that buddhist divinity thing from the Dalai Lama).

What is the definition of godhood in theurgy anyway? Just a really aware person?

I want to access the library,
Thank you.

 

[Firetree]

I am cynical about theurgy.
But you know, the areas i want to ask about maybe too personal to share, but what the hell, ill ask anyway.

So the work of theurgic magic takes years to do. And your still not done. It takes a belief in afterlife and in cosmology that you cannot definitely know is true, until you die and see for yourself if it is, or not.

And surely one who is on wizard forums knows that the universe cant be defined in one cosmology cuz of the numerous books in the library showing countless different cosmologies and opinions on the unseen realm. One view alone is not 100% the objective truth.

So, whats the point of theurgy?

'Henosis ' 'union' ; as in the branches of Magick and Yoga ( ' union ' ) .

What if it is just a misplaced hope of obtaining godhood,

What if your title is wrong and misleading ? In that , the point of theurgy is not to 'become God' . . . or to 'obtain Godhood' .

and your just doing something for years for not obtaining what your going for?
Is it just a psychological comfort, or defence mechanism to feel better about the unknown?

Yes. Also there is an assumption of 'obtaining nothing' . I have 'obtained' a lot from my practice.

And okay, say one achieved some level where they're considered divine, is that person self deluded?

Probably ..... if they think they are only divine ... and not a human with a link to the divine .

(Sort of thinking of Steven Segal here, getting that buddhist divinity thing from the Dalai Lama).

Eh ? Segal is a Deva now ??? !!!


I thought the 'highest' he got so far had been 'recognized' , by someone not the Dali Lama , as some old re incarnated 17th century Buddhist ?

What is the definition of godhood in theurgy anyway? Just a really aware person?

In some ways . Its complex , but there is a distinction ; one one hand a full union with God (if thats possible ) would seem to make one become God , but in this process there would be no more 'you' that would have 'dissolved'.

On the other hand , moving towards that goal one hopes the 'self' gets improved and evolves towards its best aspects * , and these aspects seem the good qualities of humans ( plus whatever paradigm - eg with the Greeks, concepts were different to modern western people ) anyway , so they are sort of 'projected' put as God/s and seen as attainments .

So its more than just being aware .

* for me I see it like this ; we all have our individual boundary of expansion . certain practices help us to reach towards that limit , we might not even know what that limit is . But also there is a limit , and it is futile to try and do things beyond that limit . We do need awareness though ; to know when both of those 'lessons' are happening and to know what to do about it and act on that .

I want to access the library,
Thank you.

 

[slim116]

'Henosis ' 'union' ; as in the branches of Magick and Yoga ( ' union ' ) .



What if your title is wrong and misleading ? In that , the point of theurgy is not to 'become God' . . . or to 'obtain Godhood' .



Yes. Also there is an assumption of 'obtaining nothing' . I have 'obtained' a lot from my practice.




Probably ..... if they think they are only divine ... and not a human with a link to the divine .



Eh ? Segal is a Deva now ??? !!!


I thought the 'highest' he got so far had been 'recognized' , by someone not the Dali Lama , as some old re incarnated 17th century Buddhist ?



In some ways . Its complex , but there is a distinction ; one one hand a full union with God (if thats possible ) would seem to make one become God , but in this process there would be no more 'you' that would have 'dissolved'.

On the other hand , moving towards that goal one hopes the 'self' gets improved and evolves towards its best aspects * , and these aspects seem the good qualities of humans ( plus whatever paradigm - eg with the Greeks, concepts were different to modern western people ) anyway , so they are sort of 'projected' put as God/s and seen as attainments .

So its more than just being aware .

* for me I see it like this ; we all have our individual boundary of expansion . certain practices help us to reach towards that limit , we might not even know what that limit is . But also there is a limit , and it is futile to try and do things beyond that limit . We do need awareness though ; to know when both of those 'lessons' are happening and to know what to do about it and act on that .

So, to sum up the point of theurgy is connection with the divine and to grow to the highest potentials of our good aspects?

To become a good person via magickal means via connection to the Source of all things?

So, is that the point of Golden Dawn?
LTC's Kabbalah Magic?

Btw do you practise theurgy? What branch/tradition?



*side note: The Steven Segal thing I saw it on a youtube doco. The doco was pretty anti Segal so they added their flare on top saying it meant "he paid to become divine to the Dalai Lama". I looked it up now and what you said is accurate. I was misinformed.

 

[Morell]

Interesting topic and good question. Though you can ask that one on anything magic related.

Though the question "What if...?" can be dangerous, because it makes you stop and wonder about possibilities. And since possibilities are endless in both good and bad ways, you might end stranding on one place for entire life. Now that is time wasted well.

As LHP practitioner I do aim for immortality and kind of divinity. Do I waste my time? Maybe. However going for it and making mistakes is offering me chances to learn and grow. So even if the ultimate goal might never be reached, I still will be able to know that I did my best and I learned something in the process...

Problem with Theurgy itself is that there are multiple definitions. Take a look at Wiki for them. It can be working with the gods in attempt to self improve, it can be attempt to merge with certain god, it can be developing your own divinity... maybe even more possible paths?

 

[Lord Talve]

You can't become a God this is imposible you only want is a illusion and forget the mension god is different from all entities

 

[Konsciencia]

To be quite honest, you are God already. It is not that you become It. It is that you are already It.

 

[Morell]

To be quite honest, you are God already. It is not that you become It. It is that you are already It.

Ahhh... no thanks. Especially if you mean the one god. Sounds kind of boring, honestly.