[Opinion] Having the ability to address emotionally charged sensitive topics in wholly logical ways is not a bad thing.

[M.M.]

And yes, this means sensitive issues as well. This does not mean to look at things in a cold and indifferent way, but to have the ability to.

There's a huge advantage to "Playing Spock" for societal issues because that would reach no conclusion in debate because both sides are, justifiably perhaps, bringing all their emotions to the table alongside their arguments. The magnitude of the decisions proposed does not negate the importance of having a "Point A to Point B because this is an optimal solution" discussion, but in fact makes it vastly more important alongside impassioned debate.

I personally believe a good example of this in practice is to use the metaphor of marginalized people having more rights than their current society affords them, wherever that it. In this case, imagine bringing up that marginalized people are still human beings who can be useful in society if treated equally and not systemically pushed down, and that the social climate that allows some people to be considered "better" or "worse" in their locale and therefore not allowed opportunities to advance in their society through their own efforts and hard work is a genuine loss for the whole of the society because, numerically, there are less people overall who are in a position where they can enact further movement in an economic system, advancements in art and the sciences, and that is not optimal in any way, shape or form because the oppressed group cannot contribute the number of working individuals due to social circumstance.

That cold, hyper logical stance doesn't invalidate that oppressing a group of people for no reason other than stigma or some shit is a massive breach of justice and human rights, one that makes families with children suffer and develop scars in their lives that they may individually never heal from. But it does make a case for the people who are not empathetic to the emotional cause to find a logical reason to just be a good fucking person.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I agree. I made a post about the USA to cease trading with the Arab World. It became emotionally charged on no time flat. No system is perfect.

 

[Pyrokar]

I'll do you one better. View all topics with the signature highground of a Magician.
Just like i told my man Diluculo.
Both emotional and logical, or neither.
Especially in today's environment where this emotional or empathetic rhetoric is being used and abused.
(one genocide is bad but another one is good type of thing, the hypocrisy is all around in every single subject)

We could name countless examples, but the end point behind all of them remains that as occultists the mortal affairs are of no interest to us
Unless of course we ourselves are taking action toward a definite goal. Just look at how the secret societies so far have done,
Their private exchanges always show a sort of prediction and master of puppets mentality, separate from self involvement on
the level of civilians.

 

[M.M.]

I'll do you one better. View all topics with the signature highground of a Magician.
Just like i told my man Diluculo.
Both emotional and logical, or neither.
Especially in today's environment where this emotional or empathetic rhetoric is being used and abused.
(one genocide is bad but another one is good type of thing, the hypocrisy is all around in every single subject)

We could name countless examples, but the end point behind all of them remains that as occultists the mortal affairs are of no interest to us
Unless of course we ourselves are taking action toward a definite goal. Just look at how the secret societies so far have done,
Their private exchanges always show a sort of prediction and master of puppets mentality, separate from self involvement on
the level of civilians.

A hybrid approach would be ideal, I agree.

Unfortunately, I feel that those who don't want to learn and improve on their perspectives should be introduced to the purely logical arguments first. Talk to people comfortable remaining simple in simple terms, if at all. That's probably the best approach.

 

[Pyrokar]

I think you grossly overestimate the effect of logic on "people" Brainwashing is rampant, paranoia is at an all time high
as a magician it should be beneath you to try to fix people's mind's in a waste of your own energy, why would you
give yourself the work of being their political messiah or Lelouch when you very probably have a great work of your own.
Unless you yourself (your deity/your coven etc) would benefit from the result - ofc.

But that's just me. this is a very fine thread you started so i'll leave room for others to pitch in.

 

[M.M.]

I think you grossly overestimate the effect of logic on "people" Brainwashing is rampant, paranoia is at an all time high
as a magician it should be beneath you to try to fix people's mind's in a waste of your own energy, why would you
give yourself the work of being their political messiah or Lelouch when you very probably have a great work of your own.
Unless you yourself (your deity/your coven etc) would benefit from the result - ofc.

But that's just me. this is a very fine thread you started so i'll leave room for others to pitch in.

I actually do agree 100% here, but if someone does actually want to pursue that fight, that's the advice I'd give. It's not my fight, however.

 

[Roma]

as occultists the mortal affairs are of no interest to us

Unless Earth humanity is building an organ for the body of the galactic Logos

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

A hybrid approach would be ideal, I agree.

Unfortunately, I feel that those who don't want to learn and improve on their perspectives should be introduced to the purely logical arguments first. Talk to people comfortable remaining simple in simple terms, if at all. That's probably the best approach.

Learning all modes of logic as well as committing to memory all 146 logical fallacies?

 

[Xenophon]

I'll do you one better. View all topics with the signature highground of a Magician.
Just like i told my man Diluculo.
Both emotional and logical, or neither.
Especially in today's environment where this emotional or empathetic rhetoric is being used and abused.
(one genocide is bad but another one is good type of thing, the hypocrisy is all around in every single subject)

We could name countless examples, but the end point behind all of them remains that as occultists the mortal affairs are of no interest to us
Unless of course we ourselves are taking action toward a definite goal. Just look at how the secret societies so far have done,
Their private exchanges always show a sort of prediction and master of puppets mentality, separate from self involvement on
the level of civilians.

Actually mortal affairs are a pretty damned big concern. How many of us can deal with what comes after death and control if ---and indeed whether--- to be reborn (as opposed to go on to other states.)? I'm guessing damned few of us. So, like it or not, we're stuck doing work in this earthly realm for the nonce. And some nooks are far more conducive than others for pursuing the work. If the Inquisition were back in power, we'd most of us be in trouble. New and tweaked Inquisitions are already operating. (E.g., "thinking about ancient Rome" is now considered a thumbprint for racism as is the greeting "Good morning" in some quarters.) In the near future brain implants will be mandated, adding another highly intrusive layer of control to all our other conditioning. So I'd say earthly affairs are about to impinge an unwelcome great deal on our works. Hence my interest in avoiding the effect of those affairs. Literally, here will soon be no place to hide.

Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2023

Learning all modes of logic as well as committing to memory all 146 logical fallacies?

Knowing a dozen common fallacies will make you the one-eyed man in the land of the blind. Besides, why not learn them? One could learn one a day for six months. I knew a guy who memorized the nearly 200 names of Wotan in far less time than that. Plenty of Muslims can rattle off the 99 Names of Allah without coming up for air.

 

[Pyrokar]

Indeed. As usual you correctly point out that what i mean and what i actually say has a habit of not being the same thing.
I agree completely with the example you added.
I don't say we should stay out of political/social matters to the extremes, but that we certainly shouldn't approach them
The same as normies do.

The grand game of tv/news manipulation is in full swing, whatever stance we pick is simply going to advance
someone else's agenda. Propaganda is a hell of a thing.

Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2023

You can't halt progress any more than you can re-educate the thousands. Both is a waste.
The magician is known to be behind the throne, neither on it nor asking of it.
I don't know how better to put it into words.

The guy using logic and being transparent will never defeat
the guy using emotion and hiding his agendas behind things he knows people will gravitate towards.
we are not that species, never have been.

 

[8Lou1]

ive lived with non epmpathic people for long and you are right, but where are the ones willing to work together on that? most people these days get divorced, make arguments over little things, run away from feelings etc. or in other cases the logic about feelings make emotional feelers run like hell, cause it hurts. there is a reason why some teachers have lifelong students, some relations even take more life times.

technically speaking one can give nudges and pathworkings to learn both sides of the trail, but in the end if some one isnt willing to go totally the relationship will be forcefully broken or turn into misery. and it should be that way. why should every body have the same interests? why cant love for something like soldering be Love, why should there only be 2 genders, why do most love/sex relations only involve 2 persons, why the hell do we actually make a hierarchy out of love?

i love humans. a lot. it hurts my eyes and it makes me angry. i never really understood the notion of caring for things, the closest i got was talking to humans online while learning not to get offended by their pains. a make believe where i pretend its just text and a pc in order to function in a world of raped beings. and mind you a king can just be as much raped as a housewife and flowers can be very aggressive by nature. talking to trees teaches you patience. how i hate those days of waiting, im glad im not a tree.

looking back, seeing things like a political party falling for stating we lost something good by destroying homelife with 1 parent home and my fight for staying at home and caring for family while they fell apart arguing, i understand it might look stupid to lots of people. they never understand why i didnt go to uni to study or why i didnt join the army to have more powerful tools to toy with. still i am who/what i am and im not shy about that.

as a kid i loved soldering. i made bikes, platonic solids and other stuff. i had friends who had steam loco motives and got interested in movement and found soldering in electronics. it bored me, but that day on campus i smelled something in the air. it peaked my interest, but didnt know what it was. i put my feelers out and got hit and told to go home. i went home, found a family of nerds in trouble, did what i could and fell in love with neural networking, the plasma universe and quantum physics. this trip home took me 33 years...

witchcraft uses different terms, but are often found using the same sciences only instead of using formulae it uses formulae.

 

[Pyrokar]

Nice. A literal example.
Lets see how discussing the subject of multiple genders, traditional relationships or gender roles
in a cold logical manner goes?
(my money is on: not very good.)
I dislike humans. a lot
though you say you don't understand love for things but love soldering seems like a conflict.
Don't get me wrong if Tesla can love a pigeon you can love and believe whatever you want.
Im just pointing out what you said.

 

[Roma]

I dislike humans. a lot

I was at conference one time and saw two women (not together) that had the body type that I associated with tree spirits passing through the human race: tall, thin and ambiguous sexuality.

So I approached each separately and after a little conversation asked each: Do you like being human.

They both immediately replied: No!

Perhaps not liking being human increased their intent to move on to the higher deva kingdom

 

[8Lou1]

I dont understand it, tried it and found others are better at loving soldering. Im 50 and when i see my home in a mess, i think oww stuff on the ground and walk on. The idea of moving it or picking it up so my home would look nicer or something, is something my mind can not grasp.

The idea of creating robotbabes to satisfy strange needs or the lust for internetconnections after growing up in daycare, is totally logic to me. Not to say i didnt have my moments while researching things, but i found out i hate death more.

My believe system has nothing to do with that. Its life experience and the luck of meeting 'good' people.

 

[Roma]

The idea of moving it or picking it up so my home would look nicer or something, is something my mind can not grasp.

A neighbor was complaining that her house is very fussy about furniture placement.

My house entity is very fussy about what comes in, objects and humans. Placement of objects and furniture is important. It took me a month to find a wall clock that that house would like.

Leaving a hose lying across the patio upsets the house entity because it disturbs the flow of prana/chi that runs through the center of the building.

I asked the house entity to lift the flow slightly and now it can tolerate the hose - for a while

 

[8Lou1]

In your words i would say my house entity wants me to leave and i agree. We both are thankfull for the time together, but in this case agreeing is our best option. Healing will start in the next home.

 

[Pyrokar]

I guess this means i was wrong....
i love you two.

 

[Xenophon]

Indeed. As usual you correctly point out that what i mean and what i actually say has a habit of not being the same thing.
I agree completely with the example you added.
I don't say we should stay out of political/social matters to the extremes, but that we certainly shouldn't approach them
The same as normies do.

The grand game of tv/news manipulation is in full swing, whatever stance we pick is simply going to advance
someone else's agenda. Propaganda is a hell of a thing.

Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2023

You can't halt progress any more than you can re-educate the thousands. Both is a waste.
The magician is known to be behind the throne, neither on it nor asking of it.
I don't know how better to put it into words.

The guy using logic and being transparent will never defeat
the guy using emotion and hiding his agendas behind things he knows people will gravitate towards.
we are not that species, never have been.

Actually I was being a good bit of a grouch when I said that.

Post automatically merged: Jan 26, 2024

And yes, this means sensitive issues as well. This does not mean to look at things in a cold and indifferent way, but to have the ability to.

There's a huge advantage to "Playing Spock" for societal issues because that would reach no conclusion in debate because both sides are, justifiably perhaps, bringing all their emotions to the table alongside their arguments. The magnitude of the decisions proposed does not negate the importance of having a "Point A to Point B because this is an optimal solution" discussion, but in fact makes it vastly more important alongside impassioned debate.

I personally believe a good example of this in practice is to use the metaphor of marginalized people having more rights than their current society affords them, wherever that it. In this case, imagine bringing up that marginalized people are still human beings who can be useful in society if treated equally and not systemically pushed down, and that the social climate that allows some people to be considered "better" or "worse" in their locale and therefore not allowed opportunities to advance in their society through their own efforts and hard work is a genuine loss for the whole of the society because, numerically, there are less people overall who are in a position where they can enact further movement in an economic system, advancements in art and the sciences, and that is not optimal in any way, shape or form because the oppressed group cannot contribute the number of working individuals due to social circumstance.

That cold, hyper logical stance doesn't invalidate that oppressing a group of people for no reason other than stigma or some shit is a massive breach of justice and human rights, one that makes families with children suffer and develop scars in their lives that they may individually never heal from. But it does make a case for the people who are not empathetic to the emotional cause to find a logical reason to just be a good fucking person.

How about groups that wind up marginalized wherever they crop up? That cannot handle being in power either? Distancing oneself self and one's tribe from such seems highly logical.